High school locker rooms and transgender

[Belsnickel]

(11-02-2015, 01:32 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: As I've stated before, I think the only solution is private shower and changing stalls.
Also a school rule needs to be instituted that no person shall be nude in front of another, infraction resulting in suspension.
It is the only way that I can see around this situation.

What's interesting to me is when I was in high school, no one used the showers in the locker rooms other than sports teams. And we actually had individual shower stalls anyway. I played football and I never saw another dude's wang during my time on the team.

[Belsnickel]

(11-02-2015, 01:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and in the article I cited the school decided the best answer was a unisex bathroom, but the feds stepped in and said that wasn't good enough. So it seems their decision would go against your thoughts here.

I've never really stated my personal opinion on the whole unisex bathrooms thing in this thread. Just that I can agree with their interpretation of Title IX.

[Rotobeast]

(11-02-2015, 01:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's interesting to me is when I was in high school, no one used the showers in the locker rooms other than sports teams. And we actually had individual shower stalls anyway. I played football and I never saw another dude's wang during my time on the team.

I'm guessing your school was newer, as our showers were pretty much wide open.
There were three main masts (word choice, I know) in the center with several heads protruding (omg) in a radial fashion.
This meant were all pretty much facing one another.
Fun, right ?

In P.E. we had to shower afterwards.
If we didn't and smelled, we'd get dragged back down by a teacher to make sure we bathed.
Weird shit, right ?

(11-02-2015, 01:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've never really stated my personal opinion on the whole unisex bathrooms thing in this thread. Just that I can agree with their interpretation of Title IX.

I'm guessing they never had this situation in mind when writing it.
It was directed at the protection of females in the male dominated society.
I'm not saying it should exclude those in which we are currently discussing, just that it was enacted for a different specific situation.

[Belsnickel]

(11-02-2015, 01:46 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I'm guessing your school was newer, as our showers were pretty much wide open.
There were three main masts (word choice, I know) in the center with several heads protruding (omg) in a radial fashion.
This meant were all pretty much facing one another.
Fun, right ?

In P.E. we had to shower afterwards.
If we didn't and smelled, we'd get dragged back down by a teacher to make sure we bathed.
Weird shit, right ?

The athletic facilities were the newest part of the school, built in the '80s. I don't know what it looks like at the new high school as I was the last graduating class at my high school. Now the university I work at owns it and the old athletics building houses our ROTC program.

But yeah, I don't know of anyone that showered after PE in my school. They really didn't give us time to do so.

[BmorePat87]

(11-01-2015, 11:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who "whined" and got me....eer I mean St. Lucie banned?

It may have been his repeated use of a slur to describe a whole class of people. I have to imagine that would have been the response if anyone else kept using a 3 letter word beginning with "f" to refer to gay people in a thread about gay marriage or another action comparable to that.

[Belsnickel]

(11-02-2015, 01:46 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I'm guessing they never had this situation in mind when writing it.
It was directed at the protection of females in the male dominated society.
I'm not saying it should exclude those in which we are currently discussing, just that it was enacted for a different specific situation.

You added this after I replied and so I missed it. I did say in one of my earlier posts that their friend of the court filing was accurate as to the letter of the law, but likely not the spirit of it.

[Rotobeast]

(11-02-2015, 06:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You added this after I replied and so I missed it. I did say in one of my earlier posts that their friend of the court filing was accurate as to the letter of the law, but likely not the spirit of it.

Yes. 
I had forgotten you did, in fact, post that.
I had tried to hurry with the addition, but I had a 3yr old bellowing for a change in tv programming. 

[StLucieBengal]

Phil and Roto perfectly explained my position.

The people without kids will always think it's fine until you are directly responsible for a child.

There are boundaries for a reason.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-05-2015, 12:05 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Phil and Roto perfectly explained my position.  

The people without kids will always think it's fine until you are directly responsible for a child.  

There are boundaries for a reason.

If you really feel that way and want to protect your daughter(s?), take your child off of your avatar.  Annoying and creepy to be displaying to the general public.  Don't you find it odd that you are literally the only one who does that?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-05-2015, 02:51 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: If you really feel that way and want to protect your daughter(s?), take your child off of your avatar.  Annoying and creepy to be displaying to the general public.  Don't you find it odd that you are literally the only one who does that?

I love seeing my family everywhere I go. The question should be .... Why does it bother you so much? It's an avatar.... It's my avatar on my account....

[GMDino]

(11-05-2015, 12:05 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Phil and Roto perfectly explained my position.  

The people without kids will always think it's fine until you are directly responsible for a child.  

There are boundaries for a reason.

I have children.  And I explained that my daughter has to have gym with girls who are lesbians.  I asked if you thought that was worse since they actually would be attracted to the other girls vs a boy who identifies as a girl and is NOT attracted.

But you maintain that something horrible will happen...even though it never has.

You are paranoid...and that's fine.  You can protect your children how you see fit.  Perhaps home schooling would best.  My Aunt decided to pull her two children from school and home school to keep the bad influence of the teachers out of her children's lives.  Didn't want them going down the wrong path.  Her son has multiple arrests for everything from drugs to stealing credit cards and the daughter can't hold down a steady job and at the age of 35 is still trying to figure out what to do with her life.

That is two real world examples of life outside of your paranoid vision of America.

And it doesn't mean that is what would happen in similar cases ever time.  It means you have no concrete reason for your fears other than fear of what is different.

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 05:35 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I love seeing my family everywhere I go.   The question should be .... Why does it bother you so much?   It's an avatar....    It's my avatar on my account....

The problem is your constant narrative of "keep that crap to yourselves!!!!" when it comes to anything regarding homosexuality, transgenders, or anything of the sort.

Apparently keeping things to yourself doesn't matter much when you're straight, white, and "normal".

That's the issue. I doubt anyone here could care much less about your family in your avatar in general, but you almost force us to bring it up when it completely contradicts your usual schtick on here. Do you understand this?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-05-2015, 08:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: I have children.  And I explained that my daughter has to have gym with girls who are lesbians.  I asked if you thought that was worse since they actually would be attracted to the other girls vs a boy who identifies as a girl and is NOT attracted.

But you maintain that something horrible will happen...even though it never has.

You are paranoid...and that's fine.  You can protect your children how you see fit.  Perhaps home schooling would best.  My Aunt decided to pull her two children from school and home school to keep the bad influence of the teachers out of her children's lives.  Didn't want them going down the wrong path.  Her son has multiple arrests for everything from drugs to stealing credit cards and the daughter can't hold down a steady job and at the age of 35 is still trying to figure out what to do with her life.

That is two real world examples of life outside of your paranoid vision of America.

And it doesn't mean that is what would happen in similar cases ever time.  It means you have no concrete reason for your fears other than fear of what is different.

Or maybe it's not about fears but about what's appropriate or not.

[GMDino]

(11-05-2015, 10:34 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Or maybe it's not about fears but about what's appropriate or not.

What is appropriate for who?

For the boy who thinks he's a girl and doesn't want harassed in the boys locker room? For the parent who is more uptight about it than their children who are more open about it?  

I'd almost buy that argument...but Lucy insists it will lead to "shenanigans" and is "dangerous".  He is wrong on both counts.

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 10:34 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Or maybe it's not about fears but about what's appropriate or not.

Who is the judge on what defines being "appropriate"?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-05-2015, 10:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: What is appropriate for who?

For the boy who thinks he's a girl and doesn't want harassed in the boys locker room? For the parent who is more uptight about it than their children who are more open about it?  

I'd almost buy that argument...but Lucy insists it will lead to "shenanigans" and is "dangerous".  He is wrong on both counts.

Right, because girls wouldn't give the same person a hard time. Not to mention all the girls in the girls lockerroom being, at best, uncomfortable about a "boy" changing in their lockerroom. But, I guess we are only allowed to be concerned about the feelings of minority.

(11-05-2015, 10:41 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Who is the judge on what defines being "appropriate"?

Good question. If people cannot agree on what's appropriate, then I guess we are forced to leave it up to the courts to decide. As long as everyone is aware that there is nothing that can be done that will make everyone happy.

Here are my thoughts: unless lockerrooms and bathrooms are about sex, then everyone with the same plumbing should go in the same room. The only issues should be with those with rare physical traits like hermaphrodites.

[GMDino]

(11-05-2015, 10:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Right, because girls wouldn't give the same person a hard time. Not to mention all the girls in the girls lockerroom being, at best, uncomfortable about a "boy" changing in their lockerroom. But, I guess we are only allowed to be concerned about the feelings of minority.


Good question. If people cannot agree on what's appropriate, then I guess we are forced to leave it up to the courts to decide. As long as everyone is aware that there is nothing that can be done that will make everyone happy.

Here are my thoughts: unless lockerrooms and bathrooms are about sex, then everyone with the same plumbing should go in the same room. The only issues should be with those with rare physical traits like hermaphrodites.

No doubt girls can be meaner than boys.  

The question is then is there a majority who are "uncomfortable"?  It might be a "minority" who oppose it.  

Quite the conundrum!

I had a very good friend in high school who was gay.  Clearly gay.  But it wasn't something that talked about.  Today he is married to his long time partner and living quite happily.  When I went to college I found out the girl I was dating was also friends with him as he went to our sister college and she took classes at both places.  I jokingly said that knowing he was "out: now makes all those gym classes weird.  And she replied "What makes you think he was interested in you?" 

 

Point taken!

We allow our own fears to influence what we think OTHER people think.

[Rotobeast]

(11-05-2015, 02:51 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: If you really feel that way and want to protect your daughter(s?), take your child off of your avatar.  Annoying and creepy to be displaying to the general public.  Don't you find it odd that you are literally the only one who does that?

I put a video of my daughter in Jungle Noise.
Should I have Chris Hanson in my bushes ?

(11-05-2015, 09:41 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The problem is your constant narrative of "keep that crap to yourselves!!!!" when it comes to anything regarding homosexuality, transgenders, or anything of the sort.

Apparently keeping things to yourself doesn't matter much when you're straight, white, and "normal".

That's the issue. I doubt anyone here could care much less about your family in your avatar in general, but you almost force us to bring it up when it completely contradicts your usual schtick on here. Do you understand this?

I understand the point that is trying to be made here, but I think we are reverting back to the personal issues.
I highly doubt Lucie's thought process was "I'm going to put pics of my kids in my avatar to illustrate that I'm a breeder and that's the right way to go through life".
Perhaps he put the pic there to try to reign himself in, when being needled with repeated behavior ?
I'm just saying that I thought we were going to expect more from ourselves and this just seems like the same thing that got the forum in a quagmire.
I'm no better, as I brought up the "savages" quote a few times, but apart from this sentence I never intend to do so again.
Should I slip and do something of that caliber, please remind me to be a better person.
I'm not chastising anyone, I just want to enjoy seeing everyone post.
Speaking of which.... I am hoping to see GHB back today.


(on topic)
#NoHogsAllowed

[StLucieBengal]

(11-05-2015, 08:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: I have children.  And I explained that my daughter has to have gym with girls who are lesbians.  I asked if you thought that was worse since they actually would be attracted to the other girls vs a boy who identifies as a girl and is NOT attracted.

But you maintain that something horrible will happen...even though it never has.

You are paranoid...and that's fine.  You can protect your children how you see fit.  Perhaps home schooling would best.  My Aunt decided to pull her two children from school and home school to keep the bad influence of the teachers out of her children's lives.  Didn't want them going down the wrong path.  Her son has multiple arrests for everything from drugs to stealing credit cards and the daughter can't hold down a steady job and at the age of 35 is still trying to figure out what to do with her life.

That is two real world examples of life outside of your paranoid vision of America.

And it doesn't mean that is what would happen in similar cases ever time.  It means you have no concrete reason for your fears other than fear of what is different.

Lesbians are not the same as someone pretending to be the opposite gender. When a lesbian changes clothes there is no hog dangling. Everyone looks the same.

You want to allow whatever in these locker rooms, if you are gong to allow boys and girls into the same Locker room then why not make them all communal.

The argument against communal restrooms and locker rooms is the same argument here.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-05-2015, 01:09 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I put a video of my daughter in Jungle Noise.
Should I have Chris Hanson in my bushes ?



I understand the point that is trying to be made here, but I think we are reverting back to the personal issues.
I highly doubt Lucie's thought process was "I'm going to put pics of my kids in my avatar to illustrate that I'm a breeder and that's the right way to go through life".
Perhaps he put the pic there to try to reign himself in, when being needled with repeated behavior ?
I'm just saying that I thought we were going to expect more from ourselves and this just seems like the same thing that got the forum in a quagmire.
I'm no better, as I brought up the "savages" quote a few times, but apart from this sentence I never intend to do so again.
Should I slip and do something of that caliber, please remind me to be a better person.
I'm not chastising anyone, I just want to enjoy seeing everyone post.
Speaking of which.... I am hoping to see GHB back today.


(on topic)
#NoHogsAllowed

That was a cool video. Glad you are seeing to that bengals jersey being worn haha