Hillary wants to unemploy hard working Americans

[fredtoast]

(03-20-2016, 09:15 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Roads were built as a response to the boon of the car.  They didn't build a bunch of roads in the hope that people would buy cars.

No.  The car would not have been as popular without the roads to support easy automobile travel.

My father grew up in rural eastern Kentucky (Breathitt County) in the 30's.  People who lived around him did not buy cars because there were no roads that were fit to be driven on by cars.  They did not buy a bunch of cars and wait for the roads to be built.

Suburban living became popular because of the roads that were built that made auto travel into the cities easy.  Before that people who worked in the cities lived in the cities and did not need cars to drive every day.

One of the greatest ironies in literary history is the fact that the hero of Atlas Shrugged was a railroad man and the railroad industry benefited more from government assistance than almost any other industry in history.

[*michaelsean*]

Fred the roads were built because the car age was upon us. I'm sure in rural areas that was the truth, but the car age had arrived. Nobody had to go bankrupt other alternatives to bring it about. At some time alternative energies will be the better alternative and they will prevail. Just look at the rise of the Prius and similar cars. Great bridge vehicles.

[GMDino]

(03-20-2016, 09:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Fred the roads were built because the car age was upon us.  I'm sure in rural areas that was the truth, but the car age had arrived.  Nobody had to go bankrupt other alternatives to bring it about.  At some time alternative energies will be the better alternative and they will prevail.  Just look at the rise of the Prius and similar cars.  Great bridge vehicles.

About 20 years ago we went to Michigan to visit my wife's grandparents.  We turned off the highway on to a dirt road.  In 1995.  Just north of Detroit.

I don't know which side of the argument that that helps, but country roads were not just in the rural south.

[*michaelsean*]

Oh and you'll get no argument from me in how railroad men got rich with a lot ofhelp from the givernment.

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2016, 09:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: About 20 years ago we went to Michigan to visit my wife's grandparents.  We turned off the highway on to a dirt road.  In 1995.  Just north of Detroit.

I don't know which side of the argument that that helps, but country roads were not just in the rural south.

Maybe you were in Southern Canada

[*michaelsean*]

So just to summarize what I was saying, Ford was successful because he found a way to mass produce cars for a price people coukd afford. Not because the government taxes and regulated the horse business into bankruptcy.

I also believe that one day we will replace fossil fuels, but you have to allow it to happen organically. Just like cars and home computers and what have you.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-20-2016, 09:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: About 20 years ago we went to Michigan to visit my wife's grandparents.  We turned off the highway on to a dirt road.  In 1995.  Just north of Detroit.

I don't know which side of the argument that that helps, but country roads were not just in the rural south.

You still see some unpaved roads in farm country.  Not major ones, but they are there.  I don't know that Fred is talking necessarily of paved roads in every instanxe, but roads that cars can pass on.

[*Nately120*]

(03-20-2016, 10:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I also believe that one day we will replace fossil fuels, but you have to allow it to happen organically.  Just like cars and home computers and what have you.

There is something decidedly inorganic about our lobbyist-driven system.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-20-2016, 10:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There is something decidedly inorganic about our lobbyist-driven system.

Well whoever is lobbying for coal is having a rough go of it. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-20-2016, 10:45 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well whoever is lobbying for coal is having a rough go of it. 

It's such a shame to see burning coal go the way of bloodletting and Betamax.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-20-2016, 10:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's such a shame to see burning coal go the way of bloodletting and Betamax.

You are comparing the cheapest most efficient way of producing electricity (except maybe nuclear ) to bloodletting which did nothing?

[*Nately120*]

(03-20-2016, 10:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You are comparing the cheapest most efficient way of producing electricity (except maybe nuclear ) to bloodletting which did nothing?

You forgot Betamax!

[*michaelsean*]

(03-20-2016, 10:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You forgot Betamax!

And betamax while considered the superior format had much more expensive machines and could only record an hour.  It went away because the public liked the alternative better.

[fredtoast]

(03-20-2016, 10:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I also believe that one day we will replace fossil fuels, but you have to allow it to happen organically. 

No we don't.  We didn't do that with the railroad industry.  We didn't do that with the aerospace industry.  When it benefits that entire country then the government should get involved.  Especially when other governments around the world are investing in renewable energy so heavily.  If we just sit on our hands we will be left behind.

I don't see a single government investment that would benefit the nation more than renewable energy.  We have been spending billions of dollars and have lost thousands of soldiers in wars in the middle east over the last 40 years that we would never have been in if not for our dependence on fossil fuels.  Oklahoma is now a horror show of earthquakes (I am going to start another thread juts about this) due to fracking.  Fossil fuels also pollute the air and even the most hard core climate change denier has to admit that the use of fossil fuels is pumping billions of tons of a known greenhouse gas into our atmosphere.

[*michaelsean*]

It's not government investment, it's government manipulation. They are picking one industry over another because they have decided that is what's best for us. The aerospace industry didn't do that. You think it benefits the entire country, but the entire country doesn't think so yet. If they did we would have tens of millions of electric cars on backorder. I don't have a problem with the government helping to advance alternative energy through research until it reached the point that it's the better alternative. Just don't decide it for us.

[*Nately120*]

(03-20-2016, 11:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And betamax while considered the superior format had much more expensive machines and could only record an hour.  It went away because the public liked the alternative better.

Right, sometimes people want cheap crap like coal, Big Macs, and VHS that are pleasing in the short-run but are long term inferiors. 

[*bfine32*]

Too funny that folks are justifying a politician proclaiming her goal is to but a segment of society out of work.

Hillary supporters are rubes.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-20-2016, 11:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Right, sometimes people want cheap crap like coal, Big Macs, and VHS that are pleasing in the short-run but are long term inferiors. 

And that is their choice.  But remember for what they wanted, VHS was the better option because it recorded for 3 hours on a tape. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2016, 11:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Right, sometimes people want cheap crap like coal, Big Macs, and VHS that are pleasing in the short-run but are long term inferiors. 

or welfare

[*Nately120*]

(03-20-2016, 11:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Too funny that folks are justifying a politician proclaiming her goal is to but a segment of society out of work.

Better not close Planned Parenthood....jobs will be lost

close abortion clinics?  jobs lost

cut the size of the government?  jobs lost

outsource jobs to China/Mexico so we can all have more cheap crap?  jobs lost

use less oil?  jobs lost

use less coal?  jobs lost

stop invading every country?  jobs lost

cut welfare benefits?  jobs at the welfare office lost

legalize weed?  jobs lost arresting, judging, guarding, and prosecuting weed smokers

keep prostitution illegal?  jobs lost


It's all about jobs when it comes to certain things.  We are supposed to care about the jobs of the people who do the coal mining and fracking...that's certainly not some sort of ruse for the plutocrats who profit off this stuff to appeal to the peasant masses, is it?