Hills slams over 11 million American Citizens

[*bfine32*]

(09-12-2016, 03:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What's silly is even "treat badly" covers prejudice/discrimination too.

Oh well

Holic wants us to stop this kind of bullshit. I'm going to honor his wishes and stay on topic. Instead of trying to tell everyone that words do not mean what the dictionary defines them as, just address the actual arguments in the thread. This is the shit that causes threads to get locked. It's juvenile and, honestly, pathetic to act like this.

I think you doing it wrong.

[fredtoast]

(09-12-2016, 02:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But here's what that Webster dude said:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobe


So by pat and Hills logic if someone chooses not to vote for someone because they are homosexual they hate, are afraid, and/or treat them badly.

I do hope the scope of your teachings is quite narrow; we need more independent thinking people in the world.

Thanks for the link

Full Definition of homophobe

1. :  a person characterized by homophobia
   

See homophobe defined for English-language lea

Definition of homophobia

1. :  irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
   

homophobic
 








Sometimes you are just too easy Bfine.

[*bfine32*]

(09-12-2016, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Thanks for the link

Full Definition of homophobe

1. :  a person characterized by homophobia
   

See homophobe defined for English-language lea

Definition of homophobia

1. :  irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
   

homophobic
 








Sometimes you are just too easy Bfine.

Welcome Mr late to the party; you are not the first person to ignore the simple definition and find the need to dig deeper; almost, as if you're looking hard for something.

You forgot to bold irrational.

Is giving preference to one candidate over another because his/her values are more in line with yours irrational discrimination?

[fredtoast]

(09-12-2016, 07:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Welcome Mr late to the party; you are not the first person to ignore the simple definition and find the need to dig deeper; almost, as if you're looking hard for something.

When you take an oath do they ask you to tell the "simple" truth or the "whole" truth.


"Simple" definitions are for "simple" minds.  Or for people who want to hide the real truth.

[fredtoast]

(09-12-2016, 07:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is giving preference to one candidate over another because his/her values are more in line with yours irrational discrimination?

So if you don't consider "homophobic" to be an insult why did you get your panties in such a wad?  

Why weren't you just honest from the beginning and admit that you think it is "rational" to discriminate against homosexuals.

[*bfine32*]

(09-12-2016, 08:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So if you don't consider "homophobic" to be an insult why did you get your panties in such a wad?  

Why weren't you just honest from the beginning and admit that you think it is "rational" to discriminate against homosexuals.

The is crazy even by Fred standards "Answered" a question by asking 2 questions. 

[*bfine32*]

(09-12-2016, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When you take an oath do they ask you to tell the "simple" truth or the "whole" truth.


"Simple" definitions are for "simple" minds.  Or for people who want to hide the real truth.

I suppose the dictionary is looking to hide the truth by providing the simple definition; most likely written by folks with various phobias they are trying to mask.  Or else they think folks just simply want to know what words mean.  

[GMDino]

While Daniel Webster tries to derail another thread lets get back to the topic at hand.

How bad ARE Trump's supporters?

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/donald_trump_fans_have_been_se.html

Quote:Donald Trump fans have been sending me racist, hateful messages for months. Here's a sampling.


CLEVELAND, Ohio – For 15 years, my ethnic last name has appeared above all of my stories. Which means, for 15 years, some readers have judged me only by that ethnic last name.


I have heard their voice mails and read their emails. Smirked at their keyboard courage in the comments section. Told myself not to take the Twitter mentions too personally.


Call it bigotry. Call it racism. Call it xenophobia. As a writer – especially one who covers national politics – you chalk it up as coming with the territory, as hurtful and as menacing as it can be. This year, though, it is coming far more frequently. There is no mystery why.


Maybe you don't believe Donald Trump is a bigot. Or a racist. Or a xenophobe. But the Republican nominee for president certainly has won the support of people who are.


Forget for a moment Hillary Clinton's remark the other day that "half" of Trump's supporters belong to a "basket of deplorables." The Democrat later expressed regret for the broad generalization but stuck to her assertion that Trump offers a safe haven for the hateful.


There is no perfect way to quantify how many Trump fans fit the description.


The point is, these voters are out there. I know because I hear from them.


Trump has taken a hard line against immigrants who come to the U.S. illegally from Mexico. When he launched his campaign last year, he characterized most as violent criminals, allowing only that "some" might be "good people." Trump also has promised to make Mexico pay for completion of a border wall separating the two countries. The New York businessman cited that proposal a few months agowhen he asserted that a federal judge hearing a civil suit involving the now-defunct Trump University was biased because of his Mexican heritage.


I don't think it's a coincidence that, recently, readers have told me I should be "on the other side of the wall" and that my background should "disqualify" me from covering this election. Some observers have suggested the Trump candidacy is like an online comments section come to life. But this was different. These came via email. From people using their real names.


I realize I am far from the only person whose ethnicity or race has become a focal point for a few critics. I don't want to trivialize the reprehensible prejudice many other minorities endure.


It strikes me, though, that Trump, whether he means to or not, has fostered a hostile moment in our politics when his supporters feel entitled to racially denigrate others.


Sadly, simply being a Gomez is enough to make you a target.


I was born, 35 years ago this week, in Youngstown, Ohio. My mother was born in Youngstown. My father was born in Youngstown. You have to go back four generations – to great-grandparents on both sides of my family – to find relatives born in another country.


Mom is Italian, German and Irish. Dad's ancestors came from Mexico. His mother was born in Youngstown but spent some of her early years in Mexico. His father was born in Hondo, Texas, and, like many others, migrated North to work in the Mahoning Valley steel mills.


There are some holes in my father's family story. I can't, for example, tell you if my great-grandparents crossed the border legally or illegally. I don't know. I'm not sure it matters.


Trump has fostered a hostile moment in our politics when his supporters feel entitled to racially denigrate others.
[/url][url=http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleveland.com%2Fpolitics%2Findex.ssf%2F2016%2F09%2Fdonald_trump_fans_have_been_se.html&text=Trump%20has%20fostered%20a%20hostile%20moment%20in%20our%20politics%20when%20his%20supporters%20feel%20entitled%20to%20racially%20denigrate%20others.]

For three generations we have been proud Mexican-American U.S. citizens.


We honor our multicultural roots the way many others do. The American flag hung on the front porch of my childhood home, the Mexican flag in a basement rec room. We eat Italian and Mexican food from old family recipes. Christmas Eve dinner is tacos and enchiladas with homemade tortillas one year, pasta and meatballs with homemade red sauce the next.


Aside from my last name, you might not have guessed my heritage. My younger sister got our father's dark skin. I got our mother's paler complexion. And I wish you could have seen the look on my high school Spanish teacher's face when she realized she had to give me a "C."


Lately I have struggled with how to cover Trump. Not because I'm a Gomez, but because I'm a journalist who knows the difference between right and wrong. Judging by my emails – even those from the readers who don't resort to bigotry to defend their candidate – many of you disagree. But when a candidate says things that are, at best, offensive to minorities and, at worst, racist, we have a duty to report precisely that. There are not two sides to racism.


Reporters have the tendency to credit Trump for "pivoting" when he uses milder language about immigration or when he visits a black neighborhood. It can be tough to pin down what, exactly, he believes. Just last week he refused to disavow his discredited suggestions that President Barack Obama, the nation's first black president, is not a natural-born U.S. citizen.


I have wondered how I can objectively point out that Trump encourages hate. I find myself searching for the best response when a friend at a party or a person in politics excuses Trump by arguing that he is "saying important things" or "tapping into something that is real."

Perhaps I could show them messages like these ...

• March 14, 2016: "Since we're stereotyping maybe we should start asking to see your green card. You a spic or a beaner?" – @HurtinCowboy, via Twitter.
  

Quote:14 Mar
Henry J. Gomez 

@HenryJGomez
.@RichExner maps out some pockets of Ohio where Donald Trump should do well tomorrow.http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/03/mapping_where_donald_trumps_ba.html#incart_m-rpt-1 …

Quote:[/url]

 Follow
Randy Karlyle @HurtinCowboy
@HenryJGomez Big balls on Hank huh? Since we're stereotyping maybe we should start asking to see your green card. You a spic or a beaner?
2:25 PM - 14 Mar 2016

• 
  
   
• 
   55 Retweets
   
• 
  [url=https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=709445464509140992] likes
  

 
I have shared the Twitter handle since he chose to hurl these derogatory insults in a public fashion. Hard to say what offended this particular reader. The reply came to my tweet linking to a colleague's cleveland.com piece on where Trump might do well in the Ohio primary.

• June 30, 2016: "just another liberal a_ _!!!!! u people should all be on the other side of the wall"
  

This one came from a reader who appeared to send it from an email account bearing his name. It followed my story on Michael Symon telling a local sports talk radio station that Trump would not be welcome in his Cleveland restaurants during the Republican National Convention.

• July 13, 2016: "You have been always been [sic] a biased reporter IMO [in my opinion], but now you are an obvious and clear bigot that is inflaming the political situation. Your obvious latino background (dark, short, fat) should preclude/disqualify you from the political scene in this presidential election. ... FYI, I have studied some journalism, did a lot of professional writing in industry. Also have graduate degree from a top university."
  

This came via email from a Bay Village reader who signed his name. He was upset about my pre-convention analysis that highlighted Trump's inflammatory and racially charged rhetoric and how that ran counter to the rebranding the Republican Party went through after 2012.

• July 23, 2016: "Also, just so you know, I have two daughters-in-law and they are both Hispanic. My grandchildren are half Hispanic. So I am not picking on you. I am not the biased one."
  

Another email, this one from a Hinckley reader who signed her name. She was unhappy about my post-convention analysis that focused on white supremacist David Duke's Senate candidacy and how it was inspired, in part, by the message that helped Trump win the GOP nomination.


This is just a sampling of what comes my way after writing about Trump. There are plenty more that have been purged from my inbox over time. And this doesn't account for the many anonymous comments that sprout like weeds in cleveland.com's comments section.


One online reader recently accused me of allowing my "enthicity" to cloud my judgment. Another asked if I was here legally. A third asked, tauntingly: "What makes you the expert, Enrique?"


I confess I feel a little uncomfortable sharing all of this. My cultural identity is a source of pride, just like I'm sure yours is. But it shouldn't be the only thing that defines us.


In this unusual election year, it's worth pointing out that some people think it should. And those people are responding to the message that is being pushed by Donald Trump.

[GMDino]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/295297-trump-son-white-nationalist-meme

Quote:Trump Jr. and top supporter share White nationalist image on social media

Screenshot via @RogerJStoneJr

Roger Stone, a Donald Trump ally, and Donald Trump Jr. have shared a White Nationalist symbol on Twitter. 



The two were responding to Hillary Clinton's recent controversial comment about half of Trump's supporters falling into a “basket of deplorables."


"I am so proud to be one of the Deplorables," Stone tweeted, along with a PhotoShopped image swapping out characters from the 2010 movie "The Expendables" poster with the heads of Trump and nine of his family members and allies. 


The image includes photos of Stone, Ben Carson, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie ®, Eric Trump, vice presidential nominee Mike Pence, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani ®, Donald Trump Jr., Infowars's Alex Jones, conservative writer Milo Yiannopoulos and a frog meme associated with the alt-right movement — all under a large heading that reads "The Deplorables."  


The frog, called Pepe, is a white supremacist meme, the Southern Poverty Law Center told NBC News. 


"It's constantly used in those circles," said SPLC's Heidi Beirich.


"The white nationalists are gonna love this because they're gonna feel like, 'Yeah we're in there with Trump, there's Pepe the Frog.'"


Donald Trump Jr. shared the same image on his Instagram account. 


"Apparently I made the cut as one of the Deplorables. All kidding aside I am honored to be grouped with the hard working men and women of this great nation that have supported [Donald Trump] and know that he can fix the mess created by politicians in Washington," Trump Jr. wrote.


Clinton, at a fundraiser Friday, said half of Trump's supporters could fall into what she calls the "basket of deplorables." 


"The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And, unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up."


Clinton's campaign has defended the Democratic presidential nominee's remarks. Spokesman Nick Merrill said Clinton has made no secret of how she views the radical conservative movement known as the alt-right has backed Trump.


“She gave an entire speech about how the alt right movement is using his campaign to advance its hate movement,” Merrill tweeted. 

Clinton walked back part of her comment on Saturday afternoon, saying she regretted targeting "half" of Trump's supporters, but she stood by her characterization that much of his campaign is “deplorable.”


Her comment had already sparked a massive response on social media, including a trending #BasketOfDeplorables hashtag. The response included tweets from some Trump supporters who, like Stone, embraced the label. 

[GMDino]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/mike-pence-refuses-to-call-former-kkk-leader-deplorable?utm_term=.hqpzjBJXEn#.lqvlXkz07a

Quote:Mike Pence Refuses To Call Former KKK Leader “Deplorable”


Pence and CNN’s Wolf Blitzer were discussing comments Hillary Clinton made on Friday, during which the Democratic presidential nominee called half of Donald Trump’s supporters a “basket of deplorables” as she pointed to racist, anti-Islam, anti-gay, sexist, or xenophobic opinions.


The Trump campaign described Clinton’s comments as an attack on American voters and called for her to retract her statement or drop out of the race. On Monday, Blitzer asked Pence about Trump’s supporters who are proud of being white nationalists. A number of prominent white nationalists have said publicly they’re backing Trump, among them former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke.


“There are some supporters of Donald Trump and Mike Pence, David Duke for example, and some other white nationalists, who would fit into that category of deplorables, right?” Blitzer asked.


“I’m not really sure why the media keeps dropping David Duke’s name,” Pence replied. “Donald Trump has denounced David Duke repeatedly, we don’t want his support, and we don’t want the support of people who think like him.”


“So you call him a deplorable?” Blizter asked.


“No, I’m not in the name-calling business, Wolf,” Pence said. “You know me better than that.”


Duke later told BuzzFeed News he was pleased with Pence’s comments.


Duke has released robocalls in support of Trump and encouraged listeners of his radio show to volunteer for the campaign. Trump in February disavowed Duke, but the white nationalist leader later said he still believes Trump could support his candidacy for a Senate seat.

Now....Trump did indeed "disavow" David Duke.  But of course its tangled up in at lest one lie, probably more.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-disavows-david-duke-kkk/

Quote:Donald Trump issued a crystal clear disavowal Thursday of former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke after stumbling last weekend over a question about the hate group leader on CNN.


"David Duke is a bad person, who I disavowed on numerous occasions over the years," Trump said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"I disavowed him. I disavowed the KKK," Trump added. "Do you want me to do it again for the 12th time? I disavowed him in the past, I disavow him now."

The uproar started on Sunday when Trump was asked by CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" if he would disavow Duke and other white supremacist groups supporting his campaign.


"Just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke, OK?" Trump responded.

The next day, Trump blamed a "bad earpiece" during an appearance on NBC's "Today" show.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-12-2016, 02:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you re-read it; you will (should) see that is exactly what I did. You are welcome.

Okay, let's re-read it together. 

(09-12-2016, 02:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What he said...

But as I asked: What other type of arguement can you have over the definition of a word. I see you have breech thinging there is another, lol.

But here's what that Webster dude said:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homophobe


So by pat and Hills logic if someone chooses not to vote for someone because they are homosexual they hate, are afraid, and/or treat them badly. 

I do hope the scope of your teachings is quite narrow; we need more independent thinking people in the world.

Whose "teachings" are you insulting? Pat's "teachings".  That is a personal insult. You aren't attacking any message. You're attacking the messenger. Are you going to continue to insult your own intelligence by feigning otherwise?

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2016, 12:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/295297-trump-son-white-nationalist-meme

I'm not going to fault someone because a meme originally came from /pol. Pepe himself isn't racist and suggesting the Trump Pepe is inherently racist is dumb. There have been racist memes created by his supporters with Pepe, but alone he is not. 

Now, if they share a racist or anti-semitic image from /pol, then it's an issue. 

[GMDino]

(09-13-2016, 09:44 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm not going to fault someone because a meme originally came from /pol. Pepe himself isn't racist and suggesting the Trump Pepe is inherently racist is dumb. There have been racist memes created by his supporters with Pepe, but alone he is not. 

Now, if they share a racist or anti-semitic image from /pol, then it's an issue. 

And I'm with you that if a fringe group appropriates an image that does not make the image racist/bad/etc.

In the context of the image used though it *IS* associated with a fringe group and that *looks* bad for the candidate.  But, again, I assume he is completely out of touch with what it even means and no one dare tell him.

[Rotobeast]

(09-13-2016, 12:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/295297-trump-son-white-nationalist-meme

[Rotobeast]

(09-13-2016, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote:  I assume he is completely out of touch with what it even means and no one dare tell him.

He knows.
Trust me.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-13-2016, 12:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: While Daniel Webster tries to derail another thread lets get back to the topic at hand.

How bad ARE Trump's supporters?

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/donald_trump_fans_have_been_se.html

Yes, it's only Donald Trump supporters that send out hateful messages. No one's ever said anything hateful towards Trump or anyone in favor of Trump, right? Milo Yannopoluis (sp?) is a die hard advocate for Trump and HE never gets any hate mail, right? No, only Hillary supporters.

[GMDino]

(09-13-2016, 11:48 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, it's only Donald Trump supporters that send out hateful messages. No one's ever said anything hateful towards Trump or anyone in favor of Trump, right? Milo Yannopoluis (sp?) is a die hard advocate for Trump and HE never gets any hate mail, right? No, only Hillary supporters.

Defending Trump by attacking Clinton?  

All seriousness aside this is about Trump supporters.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-13-2016, 11:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: Defending Trump by attacking Clinton?  

All seriousness aside this is about Trump supporters.

I'm not defending Trump, I'm defending his supporters. Yes, there are "deplorable" supporters of his, but guess what? There are deplorable supporters of Clinton and Johnson and Klein and anyone else that does anything in public. There are deplorable Steeler fans just as there are deplorable Bengals fans and Ravens fans (if the Browns had any fans, surely some of them would be deplorable, too). So what? 

The fact is that Clinton insulted a LOT of Americans by trying to paint Donald Trump supporters as deplorable and the sad thing is that Trump actually handled it well which only makes things harder for Hillary. Way to go, Hillary. Way to help out the old Trumpster. 

Considering how much you want Hillary elected and don't want Trump elected, I'd think you'd be critical of Hillary as well instead of continuing of trying to insult so many Americans.

[BmorePat87]

(09-13-2016, 11:48 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, it's only Donald Trump supporters that send out hateful messages. No one's ever said anything hateful towards Trump or anyone in favor of Trump, right? Milo Yannopoluis (sp?) is a die hard advocate for Trump and HE never gets any hate mail, right? No, only Hillary supporters.

If Milo is getting hate for being gay, that's one thing, but if he is getting hate for being a misogynist, that's another thing. It looks like the point of what GMDino posted was that a journalist with a Spanish last name was being attacked for his heritage.

Meeting hate with hate doesn't solve anything, but it is far worse to hate on someone for their sex, orientation, religion, etc than to hate on them for them hating people for their sex, orientation, religion, etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-13-2016, 12:09 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If Milo is getting hate for being gay, that's one thing, but if he is getting hate for being a misogynist, that's another thing.

To be fair, Milo brings A LOT of the hate upon himself. However, there's no doubt that he gets attacked for, among other things, being a conservative gay, a Trump supporter, and an anti-feminist (this is probably the biggest one).

BmorePat87 Wrote:It looks like the point of what GMDino posted was that a journalist with a Spanish last name was being attacked for his heritage.

No, I believe his point was that Trump supporters are deplorable because SOME of them do deplorable things.

[BmorePat87 Wrote:Meeting hate with hate doesn't solve anything, but it is far worse to hate on someone for their sex, orientation, religion, etc than to hate on them for them hating people for their sex, orientation, religion, etc.

I agree. Meeting hate with hate doesn't solve anything. You don't solve racism with more racism.