Hippies

[Bengalzona]

How many hippies were there in, say, 1968? Any guesses?

I looked at a few sources. They pretty much agree with the numbers from this guy's study (https://www.quora.com/What-percent-of-Baby-Boomers-actually-participated-in-the-counterculture-of-the-60s-or-were-sympathetic-to-it) which places the numbers between 200,000 to 400,000. The U.S. population in 1968 was 200 million (Remember the old McDonald's jingle... "Two hundred million people..."). So hippy population would have been like 0.1% to 0.2% of the total population. Note: That is not full percentages. It is tenths of percentages.

Doesn't seem like a lot? That's understandable. Particularly when you consider that in just about every media presentation of the year 1968 from documentaries to "Mad Men", film and photos of hippies are one of the first things you see. You know what I mean. The images are everywhere. Even the original Star Trek had their "hippie" episode. Often these images were (and still are) placed alongside pictures and film of troops in Vietnam and/or with biker gangs (another group which received out-of-proportion media attention.

Why is that? Why would such a tiny portion of the nation's population have such an overblown representation in the nation's media?

Well, one answer is that the hippie movement was shocking to most of the rest of the nation.The juxtaposition of the "hippie lifestyle" (which was actually a combination of several different lifestyles such as "communes" or "swingers" wrapped into a single heading of "hippie") against the "Nuclear Family" lifestyle caused a bit of cognitive dissonance. And with that came fear. Fear that people's children would run off to join free sex communes in California.

But for 99.9" of America, that was not the reality. Reality was station wagons and family outings, 45 rpm record players, well-manicured lawns, etc. The hippie culture was a media presentation that came to them on the massive console television sets that they gathered around every evening. It was not something they lived. It served the purpose of a morality lesson: "This could happen to you....!".

There is also another answer to why the hippies received so much attention: the anti-war movement. In the media, the hippies became the face of the anti-war movement in the 60's. And the hippies were, in general, a part of that movement. However, the terms "hippy" and "war protestor" were not synonymous. The war protests drew literally tens of millions of people ranging from disenfranchised minorities to clergymen to war veterans.

What we would eventually learn was that the war protestors were not wrong. When the Pentagon Papers were published in 1971, we learned that our government had outright lied to us about the scope of the war in Southeast Asia and its purpose. High officials had also expressed doubts and reservations about us winning the war.

You have certainly heard by now of the "liberal media bias". That did not exist in 1968. In 1968, it was an overwhelming "conservative media bias". And that bias sought to link war protestors with hippies and with communists in order to support the Vietnam War. "Spin" existed then as it does today. The media would cease that bias three years later with the revelations of the Pentagon Papers in the face of outright lies from our government. In reaction (and retaliation) the phrase "liberal media bias" was born when media would no longer publish the 'approved' or 'prescribed' stories concerning the war. It was an effort to undermine media sources which did not print what they were told to then, as it is now.

[fredtoast]

While only a small percentage of the population actually lived the hippie lifestyle a large portion of young people identified with that lifestyle by dressing and acting like hippies.

My sister graduated from a traditional, small town (Franklin) high school in 1974. Yet if you look at her yearbook you would a lot of the class was headed to a commune.

Just like all the "gangstas" we see roaming the malls.

[Bengalzona]

(06-15-2018, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: While only a small percentage of the population actually lived the hippie lifestyle a large portion of young people identified with that lifestyle by dressing and acting like hippies.

My sister graduated from a traditional, small town (Franklin) high school in 1974.  Yet if you look at her yearbook you would a lot of the class was headed to a commune.

Just like all the "gangstas" we see roaming the malls.

My sister also graduated in 1974 and I can identify with what you are describing with the dress at that time. But the world had changed quite a bit by 1974. The Pentagon Papers were published and the Watergate trial was underway. I'm focusing on six years earlier, when Nixon won the largest landslide election ever. It was almost a totally different world at that time.

[Yojimbo]

The media’s disdain for hippies has turned into a disdain for millennials. How long until they/we (I’m right on the edge of millennial and gen x) are proven right as well? Our government is still lying to us about wars and aggression overseas and at home, i.e. Snowden and Manning.

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2018, 11:35 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: My sister also graduated in 1974 and I can identify with what you are describing with the dress at that time. But the world had changed quite a bit by 1974. The Pentagon Papers were published and the Watergate trial was underway. I'm focusing on six years earlier, when Nixon won the largest landslide election ever. It was almost a totally different world at that time.

What I am saying is that his numbers are low.  I find it hard to believe that there were only 200K "weekend hippies" in 1968 when there were over 400K at Woodstock alone.  Not every single "weekend hippie" in the country left his job and drove to New York for a concert.

[Bengalzona]

(06-15-2018, 11:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What I am saying is that his numbers are low.  I find it hard to believe that there were only 200K "weekend hippies" in 1968 when there were over 400K at Woodstock alone.  Not every single "weekend hippie" in the country left his job and drove to New York for a concert.

I think he said 200k fulltime hippies and an additional 200k weekend hippies. I think (for 1968) that was about right.

Woodstock was a three day music and arts festival. 400k attended the festival over three days. But not everyone who attended was a hippy.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I think he said 200k fulltime hippies and an additional 200k weekend hippies. I think (for 1968) that was about right.

Woodstock was a three day music and arts festival. 400k attended the festival over three days. But not everyone who attended was a hippy.

I'm curious as to why you bring up hippie stats?  I don't agree or disagree with your info, just curious as to why it is brought up?  Too be more direct....what's your point?

[Bengalzona]

(06-15-2018, 12:10 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I'm curious as to why you bring up hippie stats?  I don't agree or disagree with your info, just curious as to why it is brought up?  Too be more direct....what's your point?

Because the "hippy threat" to society was grossly overblown by the media. The same as the "biker threat". And because the media did that for specific purposes.

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2018, 01:28 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Because the "hippy threat" to society was grossly overblown by the media. The same as the "biker threat". And because the media did that for specific purposes.

Before I go any further I want to make it clear that I agree with this statement.  The media was on the side of conservative America and the Nixon administration did everything they could to demonizes hippies as evil, godless, communists trying to destroy the American way of life.

Just like Trump is currently doing with Mexican immigrants.  MS-13 makes up about 1% of all active gang members in the UNited States, but according to the Fox News echo chamber the only gang problem in the country is the entire country is MS-13.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-15-2018, 11:37 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: The media’s disdain for hippies has turned into a disdain for millennials. How long until they/we (I’m right on the edge of millennial and gen x) are proven right as well? Our government is still lying to us about wars and aggression overseas and at home, i.e. Snowden and Manning.

I'm at the tail end of gen x myself.....some of the things I spoke of as a twenty something (and others of my age group) that the older set said was "radical thinking" has already come to fruition.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-15-2018, 01:28 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Because the "hippy threat" to society was grossly overblown by the media. The same as the "biker threat". And because the media did that for specific purposes.

OK...I feel like I'm missing something here. 

[BengalHawk62]

He turned thirty-five last Sunday

In his hair he found some gray
But he still ain't changed his lifestyle
He likes it better the old way
So he grows a little garden in the backyard by the fence
He's consuming what he's growing nowadays in self defense
He get's out there in the twilight zone
Sometimes when it just don't make no sense
Yeh he gets off on country music
'Cause disco left him cold
He's got young friends into new wave
But he's just too frigging old
And he dreams at night of Woodstock
And the day John Lennon died
How the music made him happy
And the silence made him cry
Yea he thinks of John sometimes
And he has to wonder why
He's an old hippie
And he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie
This…
He's an old hippie
And he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie
This new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust
He was sure back in the sixties
That everyone was hip
Then they sent him off to Vietnam
On his senior trip
And they force him to become a man
While he was still a boy
And behind each wave of tragedy
He waited for the joy
Now this world may change around him
But he just can't change no more
'Cause he's an old hippie
And he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie
This new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust
Well he stays away a lot now
From the parties and the clubs
And he's thinking while he's joggin' 'round
Sure is glad he quit the hard drugs
'Cause him and his kind get more endangered everyday
And pretty soon the species
Will just up and fade away
Like the smoke from that torpedo
Just up and fade away
He's an old hippie
And he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new
He's an old hippie
This new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust, yeah he ain't tryin' to change nobody, he's just...

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2018, 03:17 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: OK...I feel like I'm missing something here. 

Today they grossly exaggerate the threat of Mexican and Muslim immigrants.  They feed the fear that "traditional" Americans are losing their culture.

In the 1960's they grossly exaggerated the threat of Hippies.  They fed on the fear that "traditional" Americans are losing their culture.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-15-2018, 11:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What I am saying is that his numbers are low.  I find it hard to believe that there were only 200K "weekend hippies" in 1968 when there were over 400K at Woodstock alone.  Not every single "weekend hippie" in the country left his job and drove to New York for a concert.

Agreed. 400-500k people at Woodstock, and even if you figure 20% weren't hippies, there's no way that 90%+ of all hippies both full and part in the entire US attended Woodstock.

I think that number is way low, mostly on the weekend hippies.

(06-15-2018, 02:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: MS-13 makes up about 1% of all active gang members in the UNited States

What % of decapitation murders in the US do they make up? I bet it's more than 1%.

Also a single gang having 1 out of every 100 gang members in their population is actually pretty big when you consider how many tiny gangs there must be.

The problem with them, though, is less their size and more how ruthlessly violent they are, and the fact that they are a multinational organization.

[Au165]

(06-15-2018, 11:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Agreed. 400-500k people at Woodstock, and even if you figure 20% weren't hippies, there's no way that 90%+ of all hippies both full and part in the entire US attended Woodstock.

I think that number is way low, mostly on the weekend hippies.



What % of decapitation murders in the US do they make up? I bet it's more than 1%.

Also a single gang having 1 out of every 100 gang members in their population is actually pretty big when you consider how many tiny gangs there must be.

The problem with them, though, is less their size and more how ruthlessly violent they are, and the fact that they are a multinational organization.

There are more Gangster's Disciples, Bloods, Crips, and Aryan Brotherhood members in the U.S. today. Estimates put GD at 10x MS-13, Crips at almost 5x that of MS-13 and the Aryan Brotherhood at 2-3x the size of MS-13. 

[fredtoast]

(06-15-2018, 11:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What % of decapitation murders in the US do they make up? I bet it's more than 1%.

Also a single gang having 1 out of every 100 gang members in their population is actually pretty big when you consider how many tiny gangs there must be.

The problem with them, though, is less their size and more how ruthlessly violent they are, and the fact that they are a multinational organization.

All gangs murder.  All gangs are violent.  All gangs have connections in mexico and soth Amreica to sell drugs.

MS-13 is just a small pert of the problem being hyped by the fear mongers.  Here is a perfect example.  Sunday morning on Fox News I saw a police officer from Baltimore talking about a nightmare situation at a school where MS-13 had claimed one floor and another gang had claimed another.  He talked about what problems thws conflict was causeing but never even mentioned the name of the other gang.

If you are concerned about gang violence then attack gang violence instead of the 1% of gang members who are MS-13.

[*michaelsean*]

Hippies are nothing but a bunch of hippies.

[Bengalzona]

(06-18-2018, 11:30 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Hippies are  nothing but a bunch of hippies.

I don't understand why they are so enthralled with that part of the body. Why not the shin or the shoulder or the elbow?

[*Nately120*]

(06-18-2018, 12:04 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I don't understand why they are so enthralled with that part of the body. Why not the shin or the shoulder or the elbow?

Ugh don't get me started on those damn shinnies. 

[Dill]

(06-15-2018, 11:22 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: You have certainly heard by now of the "liberal media bias". That did not exist in 1968. In 1968, it was an overwhelming "conservative media bias". And that bias sought to link war protestors with hippies and with communists in order to support the Vietnam War. "Spin" existed then as it does today. The media would cease that bias three years later with the revelations of the Pentagon Papers in the face of outright lies from our government. In reaction (and retaliation) the phrase "liberal media bias" was born when media would no longer publish the 'approved' or 'prescribed' stories concerning the war. It was an effort to undermine media sources which did not print what they were told to then, as it is now.

Nailed it. From even before Goldwater, fringe right wingers were complaining of government/media liberal bias, especially the Fairness Doctrine, even when we had a conservative press. But it was Edith Efron's 1971 book The News Twisters that finally got mainstream--and corporate--attention. I doubt it would have, had not the Pentagon Papers and the general Vietnam crisis disillusioned people with government.  Worried about the anti war protests and spread of counter cultural values, Super Rich folks started funding right wing journalists and media outlets. Pols like Nixon turned to Roger Ailes to manage television PR.

The Right suffered a heavy blow when Nixon was exposed. It was hard to undermine liberal media sources when both party leaders seemed to lie, and it was the "liberal" media who exposed both while the minimal right wing media had protected Nixon to the last. (Current commentators have wondered if Nixon would have been impeached had Fox existed back then.) Evangelicals turned to born again Carter in the next Election, only to be disappointed in liberal, pro-choice Christianity. But the moment of Reagan, Atwater (of the Southern Strategy) and Ailes was just around the corner.

One of the signal achievements of Ailes et al. was to make something called "the left" a constant referent in news discussions.  Most of America being centrist liberal, "the left" had previously referred to the a sliver of the electorate: Communists, Democratic socialists, the core of the civil rights movement, and the New Left of the counter-culture--not "real" Americans.  Now it referred to virtually all media and politics outside what had formerly been the fringe right. Mike Dukakis, Bill and Hillary, and Obama became LEFTISTS.  Now we frequently hear commentators ask what does "the left" have to say about issue X?  The fringe right standard became mainstream, normalized, as Fox made a whole new generation comfortable with this usage.