Holy ********* Crazy

[Rotobeast]

(06-02-2017, 08:30 AM)xxlt Wrote: Like I said before, I am open to other models people create themselves or pull from sources - so far nobody has shown anything different. Surely they exist, even though i haven't seen them. Or people can create their own, as I was accused of doing.

Clearly the one model submitted does make sense to some.

Over a decade ago I started reading things here: https://www.cato.org/

That's the biggest libertarian think tank in the US, as far as I know. I think I was in a similar place as the one occupied by Rotobeast now, disillusioned with the major US political brands and thinking there has to be another way, and initially I had been impressed by some libertarian talking points. Who doesn't like freedom, after all? Who doesn't like liberty? But the deeper I got into their ideology, I was like, hmmm, this sounds a lot like fascism, and I pulled back from it. I wasn't the only person to make the observation. Full disclosure - I don't know what sort of rhetoric they are putting out now - so maybe they have moderated.

All I can tell you is my assessment, and that of many others, was consistent. Again, anyone, show me other models - or build your own. I'll look at them, I may even say they are better.

They are becoming more moderate.

Of course, I shouldn't really generalize so much.
However, I think they've finally seen the light, as far as how they need to market the party.
Many of us are pushing "Big Tent" and want to shave the platform down to bare minimum, to appeal to more and increase the base.
My current goals are to mend relations between Anarchists & Minarchists and to unify county affiliates within a state.
The first goal is mainly online mediating, but the latter is traveling to different county meetings to discuss resource sharing and supporting candidate rallies in different regions.
So far things are looking up for coordinating the counties.
I have joined with 3 very brilliant people (from various counties) to form our own little task force.
We have a congressional candidate who is military, a beautiful political science major who has lead a lot of activities in fighting Monsanto, a genius programmer who worked for Apple and is currently ready to release his own software that will make NationBuilder look like tic-tac-toe scratch, and me.
I guess I'm the mouth that can convince everyone to play nice and be productive....lol

So, regardless of what the LNC does, we're making changes and we will be productive with or without them.

Oh yeah, there's The Feldman Foundation thing we're doing.
That is going really well and is getting national attention.

The party is maturing, as we're not giving it a choice.
It has to happen and the LNC has seen what we're doing.
They are starting to mimic us, out of saving face. (see supporting Mark Wicks, in the last week of his campaign)
They are good people (I don't know about Arvin, sometimes), but they can only be relied on for litigation and ballot access support.

Meh.... I'm rambling....
I get your groove, XXLT.
What you speak of lines up with the party history I've been picking up on.
I really do think things have changed, as we have more leaders that care for everyone and not just their reputation.

I need some sleep....
Later Holmes....

[xxlt]

(06-02-2017, 02:18 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: True libertarianism rejects corporatism or crony capitalism while fascism usually embraces state control over many aspects of the economy. 

No matter how you cut it (social acceptance, economics, or government control) they don't belong near each other.

True libertarianism is not alive and well in America if that is the case. Communism is more likely to embrace state control over much of the economy. In a great act of patriotism, Coca-Cola and many other US companies made fortunes in Nazi Germany, a fascist state. These American companies pledged allegiance to the profits, and to the greed for which they stand.

It sounds like you are equating libertarianism more with socialism. As noted previously, for many self proclaimed libertarians them's fightin' words. Are libertarians closest to socialists in your view?

[xxlt]

(06-02-2017, 11:26 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: They are becoming more moderate.

Of course, I shouldn't really generalize so much.
However, I think they've finally seen the light, as far as how they need to market the party.
Many of us are pushing "Big Tent" and want to shave the platform down to bare minimum, to appeal to more and increase the base.
My current goals are to mend relations between Anarchists & Minarchists and to unify county affiliates within a state.
The first goal is mainly online mediating, but the latter is traveling to different county meetings to discuss resource sharing and supporting candidate rallies in different regions.
So far things are looking up for coordinating the counties.
I have joined with 3 very brilliant people (from various counties) to form our own little task force.
We have a congressional candidate who is military, a beautiful political science major who has lead a lot of activities in fighting Monsanto, a genius programmer who worked for Apple and is currently ready to release his own software that will make NationBuilder look like tic-tac-toe scratch, and me.
I guess I'm the mouth that can convince everyone to play nice and be productive....lol

So, regardless of what the LNC does, we're making changes and we will be productive with or without them.

Oh yeah, there's The Feldman Foundation thing we're doing.
That is going really well and is getting national attention.

The party is maturing, as we're not giving it a choice.
It has to happen and the LNC has seen what we're doing.
They are starting to mimic us, out of saving face. (see supporting Mark Wicks, in the last week of his campaign)
They are good people (I don't know about Arvin, sometimes), but they can only be relied on for litigation and ballot access support.

Meh.... I'm rambling....
I get your groove, XXLT.
What you speak of lines up with the party history I've been picking up on.
I really do think things have changed, as we have more leaders that care for everyone and not just their reputation.

I need some sleep....
Later Holmes....

Thanks for the validation.

Political parties are organic, and in a smaller one you and your peers certainly have more chance to define how the party evolves, especially at a local level.

I commend, again, your engagement in the process. I wish more citizens felt the obligation and saw the opportunity to get their hands dirty in the same way.

Peace brother.

[BmorePat87]

(06-03-2017, 08:53 AM)xxlt Wrote: True libertarianism is not alive and well in America if that is the case. Communism is more likely to embrace state control over much of the economy. 

Libertarianism is represented many ways in many forms within the American Libertarian party. Some like Gary Johnson like laws that protect the civil rights of citizens, even if ideal Libertarian principles would reject this. Others call any taxation "theft". 

Quote:In a great act of patriotism, Coca-Cola and many other US companies made fortunes in Nazi Germany, a fascist state. These American companies pledged allegiance to the profits, and to the greed for which they stand. 

And?

Quote:It sounds like you are equating libertarianism more with socialism. As noted previously, for many self proclaimed libertarians them's fightin' words. Are libertarians closest to socialists in your view?

How so?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

I was surprised that, upon my return from vacation ( ) there was no thread on the firestorm surrounding Griffin and her photo. Personally I think the photo was in extremely poor taste, especially given the use of beheading by ISIS ( and MS13 btw) as a form of execution and terror. I don't think it was worse than what Ted Nugent said about Obama, Ted Nugent is a huge douchebag I think what really sealed the deal for Griffin is the initial non-apology apology and now playing the victim in a scenario she created.

I get that she, and others, hate Trump. However, if you're going to apologize for an offensive action you should really apologize to the person you targeted, whether you loathe them or not. This failure to hold herself accountable for her own actions is part of a disturbing trend in this country.

[Millhouse]

welcome back .. already a thread on it, though you had to click on title to know what it was about. http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Holy-Crazy

Best part is that now she is turning it around as a SJW kinda fight. Bringing up old white guys firing her, Trump bullying her through one tweet. and she is a red head that isnt going to take the backlash or something to some effect. Really wasnt paying attention to her interview she gave when she said all that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-03-2017, 11:49 AM)Millhouse Wrote: welcome back .. already a thread on it, though you had to click on title to know what it was about. http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Holy-Crazy

Best part is that now she is turning it around as a SJW kinda fight. Bringing up old white guys firing her, Trump bullying her through one tweet. and she is a red head that isnt going to take the backlash or something to some effect. Really wasnt paying attention to her interview she gave when she said all that.

Doh, thanks for pointing that out.  Mods, if you could please merge these threads I would appreciate it.

[ballsofsteel]

Griffin appears to be somewhat of a dumb ass. If she thought she was hurting Trump with that stupid picture she was sadly mistaken. All she did was to give Trump and his team something to talk about so they didn't have to answer any questions about Paris or the investigations. She must of seen the late night talk shows ratings go up making fun of Trump and wanted a piece of the action. That picture was in poor taste.

[Bengalzona]

(06-03-2017, 12:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Doh, thanks for pointing that out.  Mods, if you could please merge these threads I would appreciate it.

Done...

Welcome back.

(06-03-2017, 03:13 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Griffin appears to be somewhat of a dumb ass. If she thought she was hurting Trump with that stupid picture she was sadly mistaken. All she did was to give Trump and his team something to talk about so they didn't have to answer any  questions about Paris or the investigations. She must of seen the late night talk shows ratings go up making fun of Trump and wanted a piece of the action. That picture was in poor taste.

^This.

I agree 100%.

I was never much on her humor anyway.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-03-2017, 04:41 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Done...

Welcome back.

Thank you, no more taunting gifs from me.   

Quote:^This.

I agree 100%.

I was never much on her humor anyway.

Griffin is not a very nice person, she is also a backstabber.  My little brother is good friends with an A list celebrity.  I suppose I could say I'm friends with them too, I've been to her house several times and she's said hello to me (by name which is a rare thing in this town) when we've run into each other at restaurants or bars.  This particular person was also, some time ago, very good friends with Kathy Griffin, who I, thankfully, never met.  She stopped being friends with Griffin after Griffin exposed, in her stand up act, a ton of personal things they had discussed.  So, not a nice person.

Two things really bother me about this incident though.  One is the non-apology apology.  Yeas, she said she wen't "too far" and was sorry, but she never apologized to Trump or his family.  Yes, I'm sure doing so would have caused vomit to rise in her throat, but if you're actually sorry then you should actually apologize.  Secondly, she's now painting herself as the victim of "old white men", further abdicating any responsibility she has for placing herself in the middle of this shit storm.  Her press conference was nauseating and is the archetype for the kind of behavior that has apparently become acceptable in some quarters and led directly to Trump's election.  You screwed up Griffin, own it.  I think her press conference was the nail in the coffin.

[GMDino]

A different take on the (over) reaction from the right.

(Opinion piece...obviously)

http://www.tiffanyquaytyson.com/2017/06/01/you-said-this-was-what-you-wanted/

Quote:You Said This Was What You Wanted
PUBLISHED JUNE 1, 2017 BY TIFFANY QUAY TYSON

I have never cared for Kathy Griffin’s comedy. I never thought she was funny. I never thought she was a very good actress. And I wasn’t surprised when she posted photos depicting a simulated beheading of the current president. Frankly it seems in line with her brand of humor. I was shocked to hear all the outrage coming from people who have spent the past eight years bemoaning the idea of political correctness. These people have complained about how no one can take a joke anymore. Well Kathy Griffin is a comedian. She made a joke. It wasn’t funny. It was politically incorrect and offensive, but that’s exactly what a lot of people claim to want.

Those people should embrace Griffin in the same way they’ve embraced Ted Nugent, the aging and talentless rocker who called for Obama’s death on more than one occasion. Or embrace her the same way they embraced the current president, who spent years arguing that our first black president wasn’t a real American. It is particularly ironic that our current president took time to let us know his feelings were hurt and that his youngest child was upset.
Does he imagine that his years-long invective against Obama wasn’t harmful to Sasha and Malia? Do only his children matter?

The same people who are condemning Griffin recently cheered on and elected to Congress a Montana man who physically assaulted a reporter at a campaign rally. These are the same people who do not speak up and condemn the actions and speech of the murderer on the train in Portland. They don’t speak up when someone leaves a noose in the African American exhibit at the Smithsonian. They don’t speak up when someone spray paints racist graffiti on LeBron James’s house or vandalizes yet another Jewish cemetery. And they damn sure didn’t speak up when protestors were burning Obama in effigy after the 2008 election.

The hypocrisy is ripe. Anyone who has banged the drum against political correctness over the past eight years should applaud Kathy Griffin. The only difference between Kathy Griffin and Ted Nugent is that Griffin apologized and lost some income. Nugent got an invitation to the White House. Political correctness is dead. If this is what you’ve been fighting for, congratulations, you’ve won.

The rest of us have definitely lost.

[BmorePat87]

(06-03-2017, 11:41 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I was surprised that, upon my return from vacation ( ) there was no thread on the firestorm surrounding Griffin and her photo.  Personally I think the photo was in extremely poor taste, especially given the use of beheading by ISIS ( and MS13 btw) as a form of execution and terror.  I don't think it was worse than what Ted Nugent said about Obama, Ted Nugent is a huge douchebag  I think what really sealed the deal for Griffin is the initial non-apology apology and now playing the victim in a scenario she created.

I get that she, and others, hate Trump.  However, if you're going to apologize for an offensive action you should really apologize to the person you targeted, whether you loathe them or not.  This failure to hold herself accountable for her own actions is part of a disturbing trend in this country.

When I first read this in this thread, I thought "Wait, doesn't he realize that this is the Kathy Griffin thread?", but now I see they just merged this post over to this thread.

[GMDino]

Luckily the good people at FOX gave the Nuge a place to explain the differences between what he said and what KG showed.

[/url]

Quote:[url=http://crooksandliars.com/2017/06/ted-nugent-has-nerve-attack-kathy-griffin]Ted Nugent Has The Nerve To Attack Kathy Griffin As ‘Unacceptable’

Ted Nugent told Fox News viewers that his not-so-thinly-veiled threats to murder Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were justified while Kathy Griffin’s stunt of holding up a fake, bloodied head of Donald Trump was “reprehensible and unacceptable.”

Unlike Nugent, Griffin has profusely apologized for her tasteless stunt. Nor did she threaten anyone’s life.
But Nugent pretended that she had and that he had not. In case you’ve forgotten, here are some of the vile things Nugent has said:

Quote:During the 2008 presidential campaign, Nugent called candidate Barack Obama “a piece of shit” who should “suck on my machine gun” and Hillary Clinton, a “worthless *****” who should “ride into the sunset” on his machine gun.
In 2012, Nugent said, “If Barack Obama becomes the president in November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.”
In May, 2013, he said during a concert, “”One way or another I’m going to the White House and I’m going to get those cocksuckers in a stranglehold.”

Less than a month ago, Nugent told Fox & Friends that he planned to go “varmint hunting” in downtown New York City that day.
Nevertheless, Nugent was identified on the screen as “ROCK STAR” throughout the discussion.


“I did not threaten anybody’s life,” Nugent insisted, saying that he had been investigated by the Secret Service and exonerated. Which is not the same thing as making threatening statements.


To her credit, cohost Eboni Williams challenged Nugent to explain what he meant by his machine gun comments.


Nugent replied, "My statements were in response to an outrageous attempt to ban certain types of firearms that would do nothing except help bad guys with more gun-free zones." In other words, he was completely justified, in his own mind.


Nobody on the panel brought up Nugent’s other comments which explicitly expressed violent intent.


Nugent insisted, “We’re talking apples and grenades here. I did nothing to harm anyone. She came out with symbolism that was truly vile.”

Williams said sarcastically, “If it’s just the words, it’s OK, Ted?”


Cohost Eric Bolling said that Nugent’s call was a surprise and had not been pre-planned.


Watch it above, from the June 2, 2017 The Fox News Specialists.

http://crooksandliars.com/2017/06/ted-nugent-has-nerve-attack-kathy-griffin

[Rotobeast]

(06-03-2017, 08:59 AM)xxlt Wrote: Thanks for the validation.

Political parties are organic, and in a smaller one you and your peers certainly have more chance to define how the party evolves, especially at a local level.

I commend, again, your engagement in the process. I wish more citizens felt the obligation and saw the opportunity to get their hands dirty in the same way.

Peace brother.

Thank you, my friend.

Anyone can make a difference.
I'm nobody special.

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-02-2017, 08:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You will not only learn more about European politics, but you will get an outsider perspective into the US. It is very interesting to dig into European news sources like that. I wish I could devote more time to it, but my primary focus is domestic policy so it is hard to justify.

Yeah, so far I've read the newspapers just in general, focusing simply on improving my language structure recognition, comprehension and vocabulary building.  Most of my readings are randomly chosen from the newspapers so, I've been reading random articles and these tend to be local news stories whether political or other news.  I will focus on political articles once I really build up my fluency when it doesn't take me an hour to read just one simple article.  I'm more of an intermediate level speaker/reader at the moment.

[masterpanthera_t]

(06-02-2017, 11:07 PM)jason Wrote: Sounds like you have a case of free thinking on your hands.  Can't have that. You'd better pick a side.

Free thinking or just too cool for any one side  .  Seriously, though, my approach is to not pick a side on a topic until I learn more about it, and this means that I have to look at views more topic by topic without a one side fits all policy.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2017, 01:38 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Yeah, so far I've read the newspapers just in general, focusing simply on improving my language structure recognition, comprehension and vocabulary building.  Most of my readings are randomly chosen from the newspapers so, I've been reading random articles and these tend to be local news stories whether political or other news.  I will focus on political articles once I really build up my fluency when it doesn't take me an hour to read just one simple article.  I'm more of an intermediate level speaker/reader at the moment.

I'd still only consider myself intermediate for German, but because English and German have more similarities than English and any of the romance languages, I can muddle through it a bit easier. Plus it helps that a lot of the more specialized words for politics are some that I had learned in other contexts.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-03-2017, 05:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Thank you, no more taunting gifs from me.   



Griffin is not a very nice person, she is also a backstabber.  My little brother is good friends with an A list celebrity.  I suppose I could say I'm friends with them too, I've been to her house several times and she's said hello to me (by name which is a rare thing in this town) when we've run into each other at restaurants or bars.  This particular person was also, some time ago, very good friends with Kathy Griffin, who I, thankfully, never met.  She stopped being friends with Griffin after Griffin exposed, in her stand up act, a ton of personal things they had discussed.  So, not a nice person.

Two things really bother me about this incident though.  One is the non-apology apology.  Yeas, she said she wen't "too far" and was sorry, but she never apologized to Trump or his family.  Yes, I'm sure doing so would have caused vomit to rise in her throat, but if you're actually sorry then you should actually apologize.  Secondly, she's now painting herself as the victim of "old white men", further abdicating any responsibility she has for placing herself in the middle of this shit storm.  Her press conference was nauseating and is the archetype for the kind of behavior that has apparently become acceptable in some quarters and led directly to Trump's election.  You screwed up Griffin, own it.  I think her press conference was the nail in the coffin.

Tell her to stand with the head of Mohammad.  That will impress me.

PS...can you get me an autograph?

[Aquapod770]

(06-02-2017, 08:30 AM)xxlt Wrote: Like I said before, I am open to other models people create themselves or pull from sources - so far nobody has shown anything different. Surely they exist, even though i haven't seen them. Or people can create their own, as I was accused of doing.

Clearly the one model submitted does make sense to some.

Over a decade ago I started reading things here: https://www.cato.org/

That's the biggest libertarian think tank in the US, as far as I know. I think I was in a similar place as the one occupied by Rotobeast now, disillusioned with the major US political brands and thinking there has to be another way, and initially I had been impressed by some libertarian talking points. Who doesn't like freedom, after all? Who doesn't like liberty? But the deeper I got into their ideology, I was like, hmmm, this sounds a lot like fascism, and I pulled back from it. I wasn't the only person to make the observation. Full disclosure - I don't know what sort of rhetoric they are putting out now - so maybe they have moderated.

All I can tell you is my assessment, and that of many others, was consistent. Again, anyone, show me other models - or build your own. I'll look at them, I may even say they are better.

  Please tell me exactly what libertarian talking points sound like fascism? I'll wait. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-05-2017, 02:42 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Tell her to stand with the head of Mohammad.  That will impress me.

Excellent point.  I wonder why no one has done that?

Quote:PS...can you get me an autograph?

Haha, never.  I've never asked for autographs or pictures with anyone.  I especially wouldn't in a social setting, it's just rude.  Admittedly, I'm not that excited by most celebrities anyways.  I got way more excited meeting Bob Odenkirk (well before Breaking Bad), Gary Dell' abate and Richard Christy than I've ever gotten meeting your typical celebrities.  I will say that it is weird seeing a really well known celebrity, it's like they're not even real.