Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings

[Brownshoe]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

discuss

[BigPapaKain]

No surprises here.

[fredtoast]

(07-12-2016, 10:40 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: No surprises here.

Don't know how you can say this.

People who always claimed there was no bias at all in the way cops treat black people would be surprised to see that there was.

And people who always claimed police were more likely to shoot black suspects would be surprised to find this is not true.

I honestly don't know many people who claimed police were biased against black suspects but did not shoot them more often.

[BigPapaKain]

(07-12-2016, 10:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know how you can say this.

People who always claimed there was no bias at all in the way cops treat black people would be surprised to see that there was.

And people who always claimed police were more likely to shoot black suspects would be surprised to find this is not true.

I honestly don't know many people who claimed police were biased against black suspects but did not shoot them more often.

You misunderstand.

I'm not surprised they use force more often. The data says police shoot white people more often, but that data is also incomplete.

Maybe it's just the neighborhoods I grew up in, but seeing it proven just doesn't surprise me.

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2016, 10:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know how you can say this.

People who always claimed there was no bias at all in the way cops treat black people would be surprised to see that there was.

And people who always claimed police were more likely to shoot black suspects would be surprised to find this is not true.

I honestly don't know many people who claimed police were biased against black suspects but did not shoot them more often.

I've always been of the opinion that Police generally use force that is corollary with the threat. This is most likely why shootings are so close; because it is usually the LEO's last resort and most likely when the perp has put the public or the LEO in danger.

I would assume the lesser uses of force probably relate more to the type of offense that the type of skin color. 

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-12-2016, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would assume the lesser uses of force probably relate more to the type of offense that the type of skin color. 

Like a broken tail light?

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2016, 01:23 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Like a broken tail light?

Yes, like a broken tail light. I would assume under usual circumstances stops such as these would involve know use of force. Of course there are exceptions that is why I used terms such as "most likely, probably, typically...." 

Was there a point you wished to make?

[fredtoast]

(07-12-2016, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would assume the lesser uses of force probably relate more to the type of offense that the type of skin color. 

Why?

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2016, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why?

Escalation of force. 

As the example Blitz was so kind to provide; if all goes as planned there should be zero use of force for driving with a broken tail light. If during the stop the person it is discovered that the driver is wanted on other charges then the officer may be required to put his hands on the person to cuff them (charge now outstanding warrants), if the person resists being cuffed, the Officer may be forced to push them up against a wall (charge now resisting arrest), if the person breaks free and attempts to flee the officer may be forced to use a tazer (charge now fleeing?), person breaks free of the tazer and begins fighting the officer, the Officer may use his baton to protect himself (assault on an  officer), the person still doesn't comply and pulls a knife, the officer may be forced to shoot him (assault with a deadly weapon).

Hopefully it was explained in enough detail, but if history is an indicator; it will lead to another question.   

[fredtoast]

(07-12-2016, 02:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Escalation of force. 

As the example Blitz was so kind to provide; if all goes as planned there should be zero use of force for driving with a broken tail light. If during the stop the person it is discovered that the driver is wanted on other charges then the officer may be required to put his hands on the person to cuff them (charge now outstanding warrants), if the person resists being cuffed, the Officer may be forced to push them up against a wall (charge now resisting arrest), if the person breaks free and attempts to flee the officer may be forced to use a tazer (charge now fleeing?), person breaks free of the tazer and begins fighting the officer, the Officer may use his baton to protect himself (assault on an  officer), the person still doesn't comply and pulls a knife, the officer may be forced to shoot him (assault with a deadly weapon).

Hopefully it was explained in enough detail, but if history is an indicator; it will lead to another question.   

So you think the extra force used against black people is due to the fact that black people escalate the threat more than white people?

[GMDino]

(07-12-2016, 02:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Escalation of force. 

As the example Blitz was so kind to provide; if all goes as planned there should be zero use of force for driving with a broken tail light. If during the stop the person it is discovered that the driver is wanted on other charges then the officer may be required to put his hands on the person to cuff them (charge now outstanding warrants), if the person resists being cuffed, the Officer may be forced to push them up against a wall (charge now resisting arrest), if the person breaks free and attempts to flee the officer may be forced to use a tazer (charge now fleeing?), person breaks free of the tazer and begins fighting the officer, the Officer may use his baton to protect himself (assault on an  officer), the person still doesn't comply and pulls a knife, the officer may be forced to shoot him (assault with a deadly weapon).

Hopefully it was explained in enough detail, but if history is an indicator; it will lead to another question.   

And if the driver reaches for his wallet because he was told he can be shot.

[Sovereign Nation]

(07-12-2016, 02:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hopefully it was explained in enough detail, but if history is an indicator; it will lead to another question.   

(07-12-2016, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you think the extra force used against black people is due to the fact that black people escalate the threat more than white people?

Man....

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2016, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you think the extra force used against black people is due to the fact that black people escalate the threat more than white people?

Nope, I think the level of threat that a LEO uses is corollary to the threat and offense. I would have to study trends of what type of force is used for what types of crimes and then break those crimes down by demographics to see if my thoughts have any merit.  I merely used the escalation of force scenario to show different actions a LEO may be required to take. Or I could just shout Cops are racists and get the T-Shirt. I eagerly await your next question.



Keep fishing Fred, you almost had it. 

(07-12-2016, 03:09 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Man....

Simple books are the easiest to read.

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-12-2016, 05:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, I think the level of threat that a LEO uses is corollary to the threat and offense. I would have to study trends of what type of force is used for what types of crimes and then break those crimes down by demographics to see if my thoughts have any merit.  I merely used the escalation of force scenario to show different actions a LEO may be required to take. Or I could just shout Cops are racists and get the T-Shirt. I eagerly await your next question.

Well then why don't you get back to us once you've concluded your study. Or just shout all blacks are criminals.

[*bfine32*]

(07-12-2016, 05:43 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Well then why don't you get back to us once you've concluded your study. Or just shout all blacks are criminals.

Oh, I'm not even sure we've discussed crime rate by demographic; thought we were talking about force used during arrests/events.


Crime rate by demographic should be fairly easy to look up; I'll do so if you think it will add to the conversation. 

[JustWinBaby]

So can we now rightly re-name BLM to BBM (black bruises matter)?

[Brownshoe]

(07-12-2016, 05:59 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So can we now rightly re-name BLM to BBM (black bruises matter)?

The study shows that white people get the baton and pepper sprayed at a higher % than black people when complying with the police. Black people tend to get the lesser repercussions and white people get the more serious repercussions.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-12-2016, 10:28 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?_r=0

discuss

Quote:The counterintuitive results provoked debate after the study was posted on Monday

Counterintuitive only if you bought the bag of rancid bullshit the media's been selling the past few years.

[BmorePat87]

(07-12-2016, 09:17 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The study shows that white people get the baton and pepper sprayed at a higher % than black people. Black people tend to get the lesser repercussions and white people get the more serious repercussions.

Your link had 4 charts that mentioned batons and pepper spray. The first two were based on all stop and frisk's. It said black people are 25% more likely to get the baton or pepper spray. The second one was for stops where the person was compliant the whole time. That said Black people are 14% LESS likely. The final one was a civilian survey that said black people were 87% more likely to get it.