How Germany Wins At Manufacturing — For Now

[GMDino]

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/03/572901119/how-germany-wins-at-manufacturing-for-now

Quote:This is the first of three reports from NPR's John Ydstie on Germany's manufacturing strength.


The United States needs to create more manufacturing jobs: That has been a constant refrain of President Trump and was one of the goals of the corporate tax cut recently passed by Congress and signed into law. The loss of manufacturing jobs has been a problem for many countries, especially the U.S. It played a big role in Trump's election.

Germany, however, continues to maintain manufacturing as a large share of its economy. It makes up nearly a quarter of the German economy, about twice the share that manufacturing has in the U.S. economy.

How do the Germans do it? Are there any lessons for the U.S.?

Mittelstand

Enlarge this image

After World War II, Germany put in place a financial and institutional structure that supported manufacturing, but the economy's emphasis on "making things" goes back much further to a tradition of very capable small and middle-size companies called the Mittelstand. In Germany, they are seen as the foundation of the country's manufacturing success.

Schmittenberg Metal Works, an auto parts maker based in Wuppertal, is a prime example. Its factory there stamps out parts by the millions for the world's automotive industry.

"My grandfather was an engineer and toolmaker and had the technologic know-how, and my grandmother supplied the money, so, I mean this was, yah, a dream team, yah," says Yvonne Schmittenberg. She's a petite woman with long blond hair; an unusual CEO in a male-dominated industry.

Schmittenberg was working in France in the 1990s when her grandmother, who was running the family business then, called and said it would be sold if she didn't come back home and take over.

"I was working as an investment banker, which I liked a lot," she says. "But blood is thicker than water, and after all, I was very much tempted by the entrepreneurial challenge, yes."

Schmittenberg is proud of the company's history. It was founded in 1932. It survived the second World War and right afterward began supplying parts for Germany's recovering auto industry. Volkswagen was one of the company's first customers.

"Starting with Volkswagen, the Beetle, the first Beetle was supplied by the Schmittenberg company with the first weld nuts," she says.


Weld nuts are small but critically important parts. Most are about the size of a silver dollar with a small-threaded tube sticking up. They are welded to a car's body and used to bolt on things like seats and seat belts, so they must be able to hold up against the violent forces unleashed when cars collide or smash into something.

They look pretty simple, like something that these days would be manufactured in a low-wage country; in fact, they are highly engineered parts. Christian Rieder heads up Schmittenberg's sales team. He says the weld nuts the company produces are incredibly strong.

"On this threaded plate you can hang four Mercedes-Benz S-Classes on," he says. That's the equivalent of 8 tons — you could weld this small threaded plate to a steel girder, then hang four large automobiles from it, and the threads would not strip, the part would not fail.

That attention to engineering and quality is a hallmark of German manufacturing companies. Yvonne Schmittenberg says it's what makes Schmittenberg, and companies like it, competitive: "Obviously we are under pressure and we have to fight for market share every day, but still quality is our main issue, and we would never shift to anywhere when quality is in slightest question."

This is one of the strengths of German Mittelstand companies: They're often family-owned and focus on long-term success, not on maximizing short-term profits. They pay attention to quality.

Yvonne Schmittenberg has some advice: Pay attention to your workforce. Don't presume every kid should go to college. Get them interested in making things.

"I think this so important to keep the youngsters interested in manufacturing," the CEO says. "And this starts at the schools ... to have the kids running around with open eyes being interested in technical issues, see how things get done and really get them motivated on how to do that."

Lessons for the United States

What's the takeaway for U.S. companies? Can the U.S. embrace these qualities and boost manufacturing?

Martin Baily, an economist at the Brookings Institution and a former White House economic adviser, has studied the question. He says he thinks it would be a good thing if the U.S. had more manufacturing jobs and could provide work for people who aren't highly educated, but that such an expansion would be very difficult to achieve.

"I would not advise U.S. companies or U.S. policymakers to try to replicate what's happened in Germany," he says. "In fact, I would look at Germany and say you're going to have a tough time going forward, in fact you're already having a tough time as some production shifts to eastern Europe."

Baily says a big reason is that technology is advancing so fast that it will continue to displace even highly skilled manufacturing workers.

Some Germans are also worried about this. Jeromin Zettelmeyer, a former economic official in the German government who is now at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, says Germany may soon find that it's too reliant on manufacturing.

"There is a very serious worry that we might lose our manufacturing edge over the next 10-20 years and be in the same situation the U.S. is now — except, without having grown a new growth engine like the IT sector in the meantime," Zettelmeyer says.

As Germany and the U.S. face the future they are caught in a "grass is always greener" moment, where each sees in the other the thing it does not have.
Even if Germany is really good at manufacturing, maybe it needs to try to emulate the U.S. and start looking beyond manufacturing to find postindustrial jobs to drive its economy.

Meanwhile, the U.S. faces an equally difficult question: How to provide decent jobs for workers who once would have been employed in manufacturing?

[GMDino]

Part 2:

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/04/575114570/robust-apprenticeship-program-key-to-germanys-manufacturing-might

Quote:Robust Apprenticeship Program Key To Germany's Manufacturing Might


This is the second of three reports from NPR's John Ydstie on Germany's manufacturing strength.

Manufacturing accounts for nearly a quarter of Germany's economy. In the U.S., it's about half that. A key element of that success is Germany's apprenticeship training program.

Every year, about half a million young Germans enter the workforce through these programs. They provide a steady stream of highly qualified industrial workers that helps Germany maintain a reputation for producing top-quality products.

Henrik Tillmann is among the current crop of young apprentices. The 19-year-old is training at Hebmuller Aerospace to be an industrial clerk, which qualifies him to do a variety of jobs from materials purchasing to marketing. Each week he spends three-and-a-half days at the company's production center, and a day and a half at a government-funded school. Before he can become a clerk, though, Tillmann must first learn how to build the valves Hebmuller sells to aerospace companies.

He will be a better clerk, says his boss, Axel Hebmuller, because he'll know the valves inside out when he describes them for customers.

Enlarge this image

Apprentice industrial clerk Henrik Tillmann assembles a valve for a commercial aircraft galley kitchen at Hebmuller Aerospace near Dusseldorf, Germany.
John Ydstie/NPR

"I think it's much easier for young people to understand what they're doing, what they're learning, when they get a little practical work with it because then they can see what they learn at school," he says.

Hebmuller, a co-founder of this firm located near Dusseldorf, says small companies like his rely on apprentices. In fact, that's how he started his career: He was an apprentice at the local bank. "This is where I got my economy degrees," Hebmuller says.

He later went to university, too. But Hebmuller says only 3 of the 16 people who work for his company went to university.

"Even in some of the big, big companies in Germany, in the upper management levels you have people who only have an apprentice and don't even have any university degree," he says.

Apprenticeships are one of the foundations of Germany's manufacturing strength, and Felix Rauner, a professor at the University of Bremen, says U.S. presidents have taken notice.

"Every president of the United States [in] the last 30 years, after becoming elected, said, 'Oh, we should implement the apprenticeship system'," says Rauner.
Donald Trump is no exception.

Last June, at the White House, Trump signed an executive order aimed at boosting the number of U.S. apprenticeships by nearly tenfold to 5 million. But, experts doubt the goal will be realized because funding is inadequate.

Rauner, one of the world's leading authorities on apprenticeships and vocational education, says historically, the U.S. approach to vocational education has been ineffective partly because it's often not directly connected to specific jobs at real companies.

Also, says Rauner, U.S. society has stigmatized vocational education, so most American parents see college as the only path to status and a good career for their children. Rauner says there's a troubling trend in that direction in Germany, too. But, in Germany there's still lots of prestige attached when someone, trained through apprenticeship, achieves master status.

"If, for example, someone gets a meister title, it would be published in the local newspaper and there's a huge celebration. It is an important event," Rauner says. "No one in Germany is interested if someone gets a master degree in a university."

Ludger Deitmer, Rauner's colleague at the University of Bremen, says his son is an example of the benefits of an apprentice system.

"He started as an engineer, but after four semesters he gave it up and said no this is not really what I want," Deitmer says.

His son is now a tradesman who prefers to learn things by doing them and enjoys looking back after a hard days work and seeing what he has accomplished.

Deitmer is international research coordinator at the Institute of Technology and Education at the University of Bremen and has also studied apprenticeships extensively. He suggests the failure of the U.S. to widely provide this kind of training has hurt U.S. manufacturing, something President Trump says he wants to remedy.

"Vocational training should be one of the medicines, the key medicines, in how to make America great again," Deitmer says. "Why not? This is exactly what the country needs."

One barrier to apprenticeships in the U.S. is getting American companies to buy in, because of the cost of training. In Germany, a firm trains the apprentice and pays them a modest wage.

"But in the second year, they're already doing 60 percent of the workload of a fully skilled worker," Deitmer says. "So, there is a return."

Cheap apprentice labor reduces the net training cost to the company to a little over $10,000, Deitmer says. And, the real pay-off for companies, he says, is that after three years they've got a highly-skilled worker.

U.S. firms often complain about a lack of skilled workers, but the U.S. has struggled to create widespread apprentice programs. Felix Rauner says growing a viable American apprenticeship system will be difficult. Partly because the U.S. has historically had a barrier between schools and business, and partly because of the fractured nature of U.S. education, with 50 states in charge.

[GMDino]

Third and final part:

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/05/575615220/germanys-export-machine-draws-both-envy-and-ire

Quote:Germany's Export Machine Draws Both Envy And Ire

Enlarge this image

Rainer Stutzel of Beko Technologies stands beside a catalytic converter that cleans compressed air systems. The company exports its products around the world.

John Ydstie/NPR

This is the third and final report in John Ydstie's series on Germany's manufacturing strength.

You've probably never heard of Beko Technologies. Headquartered in Neuss, Germany, it makes filters and other products for compressed air systems, which are used in manufacturing, food processing and countless other applications. Beko may not be well known outside Neuss, but it's an excellent example of what makes Germany a manufacturing and export powerhouse.

And that strength has captured the attention of the Trump administration. Year after year, Germany runs huge trade surpluses. The U.S. hasn't seen a trade surplus in decades. President Trump has accused the Germans of cheating, without offering much in the way of specifics.

A look at Beko helps explain why Germany is such an exporting juggernaut.

The company's shipping area is a busy place. Boxes filled with filters, condensers or monitoring devices for compressed air systems are headed to workshops and factories all over the world.

Rainer Stutzel, who works in Beko's marketing department, says compressed air is used everywhere from gas stations and paint shops to hospitals. In 1982, the company's founder developed a condensate drain that removes corrosive moisture from compressed air systems. Beko later developed filters and other products that eliminate impurities from compressed air.

"If you leave the condensate inside a compressed air system, and the compressed air goes to a paint job place, like painting cars with spray guns, not only would the paint come out of the spray gun, but lots of drops of air and oil and water and dirt and your car would look like hell," Stutzel explains.

That's why the world wants Beko's products. Stutzel says about half of what the company manufactures ends up outside Germany, through marketing subsidiaries in Asia and North America.

While the world knows all about the export prowess of German industrial giants like Daimler-Benz and Siemens, thousands of small and mid-sized companies like Beko Technologies are also big exporters. They helped push the German surplus in the export of goods to $280 billion in 2016. Meanwhile, the U.S. had a deficit of $750 billion.

Martin Baily, an economist at the Brookings Institution, says Germany's strength is partly the result of a strategy following World War II to rebuild its economy by focusing on manufacturing and exporting. Baily also says German firms are very motivated to export.

"Partly because it is a smaller economy, so their companies are much more oriented towards exporting, whereas our companies are much more oriented towards selling in the domestic market," Baily says.

The big domestic market in the U.S. is an advantage in many ways, says Baily. 

"But from a trade point of view, it means that most companies are like, 'Oh yeah, exports. Why would we export?' "

German exports also have benefited from China's rapid industrialization. German companies provided many of the high-quality machines that Chinese factories needed.

So in part, German companies have simply out-competed other manufacturers.

What about President's Trump's claim that Germany is cheating on trade?

"It's not cheating," says Jeromin Zettelmeyer, a former economic official in the German government and now a fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington.

Germany does have an advantage, he says, but "the only sense in which I think Germany could be accused of 'cheating' is by being a member of the [eurozone]. There is no question that if Germany were to exit the [eurozone] today, this would lead to a pretty substantial appreciation of the German currency."

The euro has been Germany's currency since 1999. But if Germany still had the deutsche mark, its products would almost certainly be more expensive and less competitive in global markets. That's because the deutsche mark would reflect the real strength of the German economy. The euro doesn't. It reflects the less robust economy of the whole euro area and therefore German products, priced in euros, are less expensive and more competitive.

But Germany doesn't control the value of euro. Its value is tied to the health of the whole eurozone economy. So the Trump administration's claim that Germany is cheating by holding the value of the euro down is misguided, according to Baily of the Brookings Institution and other economists.

There is another force that supports Germany's big trade surpluses. It saves far more than the U.S. The clearest sign of that is that the German government balances its federal budget or runs surpluses, while the U.S. government runs huge budget deficits. In other words, the U.S. borrows massively, instead of saving like the Germans do, says Baily.

"They are very disciplined on that, so they don't run those deficits," he says. "Their savings is high so they get the conditions right so they can have a trade surplus."

The U.S. has urged Germany to spend more on its infrastructure and other programs, which could draw more imports into Germany and lower its surplus. Baily and Zettelmeyer both agree that could be good for Germany and its trading partners. But many Germans are proud that what they produce is in demand around the world, and they're not inclined to save less or spend more to mollify their critics.

Bold/emphasis mine.

[StLucieBengal]

Germany manufacturing wins because of currency manipulation of he euro propping up exports.

[GMDino]

(01-05-2018, 02:12 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Germany manufacturing wins because of currency manipulation of he euro propping up exports.

Which, if true, Germany does not control.

[Belsnickel]

(01-05-2018, 02:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Which, if true, Germany does not control.

Sure they do. Aren't you aware that Germany IS the EU and they control it all?!

[GMDino]

(01-05-2018, 02:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Sure they do. Aren't you aware that Germany IS the EU and they control it all?!

I believe that HAS been reported on these boards.... 

[StLucieBengal]

(01-05-2018, 02:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Which, if true, Germany does not control.

They don’t?

Quote:The euro has been bad for German democracy and for German savers and may well ultimately prove to be a disaster for its taxpayers too, but it has been a boon for the country’s exporters. The euro is far weaker than the Deutsche Mark would have been (as was always likely to have been the case). This means that Germany’s decision to abandon its old currency in favor of the euro has acted as a disguised devaluation, a devaluation that has only deepened as the structural imbalances within the common currency have dragged the euro down still further.

Looks like they devalued their own currency to force down the euro to weaken eu members who signed on for the euro. They used this to prop up German exports. Germany gets this boon. While the rest of Europe goes into debt.

Quote:Germany, the Euro and Currency ‘Manipulation’

by Andrew Stuttaford
January 31, 2017 9:46 AM
When it comes to recent comments on Germany from Peter Navarro, Donald Trump’s top trade adviser, (which are now causing some outrage across the Atlantic) there’s quite a bit to unpack, but when it comes to the advantage that Germany has taken of the euro, Navarro is right about effect, if not motive.

The Financial Times:


Germany is using a “grossly undervalued” euro to “exploit” the US and its EU partners, Donald Trump’s top trade adviser has said in comments that are likely to trigger alarm in Europe’s largest economy. Peter Navarro, the head of Mr Trump’s new National Trade Council, told the Financial Times the euro was like an “implicit Deutsche Mark” whose low valuation gave Germany an advantage over its main trading partners.

This ‘implicit Deutsche Mark’ argued Navarro, is “grossly undervalued”, and, as evidence of this, he cited “The German structural imbalance in trade with the rest of the EU and the US…”


This should not be controversial.

The euro has been bad for German democracy and for German savers and may well ultimately prove to be a disaster for its taxpayers too, but it has been a boon for the country’s exporters. The euro is far weaker than the Deutsche Mark would have been (as was always likely to have been the case). This means that Germany’s decision to abandon its old currency in favor of the euro has acted as a disguised devaluation, a devaluation that has only deepened as the structural imbalances within the common currency have dragged the euro down still further.


Writing in 2013, Paul Krugman, who’s not always wrong, noted that:

[I]f we imagine a euro breakup, I think everyone would agree that the new mark would soar in value, making German manufacturing much less competitive.

Indeed it would, which explains quite a bit of the opposition within Germany to such a breakup, or even, to as some (ahem) have suggested a unilateral departure of Germany from the euro zone or a division of the common currency into ‘northern’ and ‘southern’ units.


In the meantime, German exporters have made the most of the opportunity, with sometimes severe consequences for their competitors.

That said, this was (for them) a happy accident rather than the result of any cunning plan. The crucial Franco-German push for the euro came after the fall of the Berlin Wall. To France’s President Mitterrand a common currency was seen as a way of anchoring a united Germany within the EU and (ironically) as a device to contain Germany’s relative economic strength. To Germany’s Chancellor Kohl a commitment to join the single currency was seen (nuttily) as a price to be paid to secure agreement to German reunification and as a reassuring message that there was nothing to fear from a united Germany. If there was an ‘international’ economic ambition behind the creation of the euro, it was that those steering the project of European integration wanted a reserve currency of their own to challenge the dollar. Giving German exporters a windfall was not a part of the plan.

[GMDino]

(01-05-2018, 03:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They don’t?

They don't.

Quote:But Germany doesn't control the value of euro. Its value is tied to the health of the whole eurozone economy. So the Trump administration's claim that Germany is cheating by holding the value of the euro down is misguided, according to Baily of the Brookings Institution and other economists. 

(01-05-2018, 03:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Looks like they devalued their own currency to force down the euro to weaken eu members who signed on for the euro.   They used this to prop up German exports.   Germany gets this boon.  While the rest of Europe goes into debt.  

Looks like you didn't read the articles.

[Belsnickel]

(01-05-2018, 03:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They don’t?  


Looks like they devalued their own currency to force down the euro to weaken eu members who signed on for the euro.   They used this to prop up German exports.   Germany gets this boon.  While the rest of Europe goes into debt.  

From your own article:

Quote:That said, this was (for them) a happy accident rather than the result of any cunning plan. The crucial Franco-German push for the euro came after the fall of the Berlin Wall. To France’s President Mitterrand a common currency was seen as a way of anchoring a united Germany within the EU and (ironically) as a device to contain Germany’s relative economic strength. To Germany’s Chancellor Kohl a commitment to join the single currency was seen (nuttily) as a price to be paid to secure agreement to German reunification and as a reassuring message that there was nothing to fear from a united Germany. If there was an ‘international’ economic ambition behind the creation of the euro, it was that those steering the project of European integration wanted a reserve currency of their own to challenge the dollar. Giving German exporters a windfall was not a part of the plan.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-05-2018, 03:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: They don't.




Looks like you didn't read the articles.

That’s funny..... maybe you just do not understand what is going on in Europe. I don’t have the time to post 500 links to educate you on this whole situation when we both know you only speak In meme.

They keep the euro zone down with regulations and loans. They forced Greece to stay in the Euro when they desperately wanted out to get their economy back.... German loans prevented this because they knew their export market surplus to Greece would disappear.

Italy is moving toward parties who want their currency back..... Poland and Austria are now aligned to stop the euro imperialism by the Germans. And of all European countries those two would be best in tune to know the signs of Germany grabbing power over Europe.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-05-2018, 03:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: From your own article:

The euro and the EU never started out as a bad thing. It was once great and had the best intentions. German manipulation and power grab over time have made it toxic. Ofc German dominance was never the original plan.... it was originally a trade union and the common currency was to trap Germany. Through EU overreach and regulation they have manipulated the currency to work best for Germans.

I know you don’t care for Poland and their government so would you be ok if Poland had control over the EU as much as Germany does? They provided loans to lock countries into the currency to prop up these own export markets?

[GMDino]

(01-05-2018, 03:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That’s funny.....  maybe you just do not understand what is going on in Europe.   I don’t have the time to post 500 links to educate you on this whole situation when we both know you only speak In meme.  

They keep the euro zone down with regulations and loans.  They forced Greece to stay in the Euro when they desperately wanted out to get their economy back....    German loans prevented this because they knew their export market surplus to Greece would disappear.  

Italy is moving toward parties who want their currency back..... Poland and Austria are now aligned to stop the euro imperialism by the Germans.  And of all European countries those two would be best in tune to know the signs of Germany grabbing power over Europe.

I posted a three part story.  Sorry if that taxes so much of your mind.

No memes either.

Simply you are wrong and won't admit it so you claim there is proof but provide none.

[Belsnickel]

(01-05-2018, 03:45 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The euro and the EU never started out as a bad thing. It was once great and had the best intentions. German manipulation and power grab over time have made it toxic. Ofc German dominance was never the original plan.... it was originally a trade union and the common currency was to trap Germany. Through EU overreach and regulation they have manipulated the currency to work best for Germans.

I know you don’t care for Poland and their government so would you be ok if Poland had control over the EU as much as Germany does? They provided loans to lock countries into the currency to prop up these own export markets?

You've made a claim and have yet to support it with any evidence, only providing an article that refutes your own claim.

Unless you can provide objective evidence supporting your claim, I'm not going to bother engaging in any back and forth with you on the topic.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-05-2018, 04:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You've made a claim and have yet to support it with any evidence, only providing an article that refutes your own claim.

Unless you can provide objective evidence supporting your claim, I'm not going to bother engaging in any back and forth with you on the topic.

Ah the old stick your head in the ground and ignore what’s happening.

Typical. When you get out of fantasy land let us know . Your beloved Germany are not the good guys you so desperately want.

[Belsnickel]

(01-05-2018, 07:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ah the old stick your head in the ground and ignore what’s happening.

Typical. When you get out of fantasy land let us know . Your beloved Germany are not the good guys you so desperately want.

Ah, the old "I have been called out for my bullshit and am going to pretend I have the high ground."

Get real.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-05-2018, 09:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Ah, the old "I have been called out for my bullshit and am going to pretend I have the high ground."

Get real.

Not sure why you feel the need to use foul language. Just because you want to then a blind eye to German dominance in Europe doesn’t mean the rest of us have to as well. You have somehow romanced the Germans into these people of goodwill who have zero ill intentions of crippling Europe. Too bad their actions over and over have shown they are only interested in making themselves stronger even if it means Europe gets weaker.

What they have done to Europe caused Brexit, now Italy is pushing to go back to their own currency, Hungry and Poland are now partnering to pull back from European policies.

The German government is the problem in Europe. Thankfully the German people are waking up and voting for parties who want to dissolve the EU. Anti Semitism is on the rise in Germany, they need to create safe places for women, it’s a mess all due to this government. The one you love so much.

[GMDino]

(01-08-2018, 11:45 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Not sure why you feel the need to use foul language.   Just because you want to then a blind eye to German dominance in Europe doesn’t mean the rest of us have to as well.    You have somehow romanced the Germans into these people of goodwill who have zero ill intentions of crippling Europe.  Too bad their actions over and over have shown they are only interested in making themselves stronger even if it means Europe gets weaker.    

What they have done to Europe caused Brexit, now Italy is pushing to go back to their own currency, Hungry and Poland are now partnering to pull back from European policies.  

The German government is the problem in Europe.   Thankfully the German people are waking up and voting for parties who want to dissolve the EU.   Anti Semitism is on the rise in Germany, they need to create safe places for women, it’s a mess all due to this government.   The one you love so much.

I believe what Matt means is: Provide proof or this remain simply an opinion.  If you can post repeated responses you can provide several of the "hundreds" of sources to back up that claim. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-08-2018, 11:45 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Not sure why you feel the need to use foul language. Just because you want to then a blind eye to German dominance in Europe doesn’t mean the rest of us have to as well. You have somehow romanced the Germans into these people of goodwill who have zero ill intentions of crippling Europe. Too bad their actions over and over have shown they are only interested in making themselves stronger even if it means Europe gets weaker.

What they have done to Europe caused Brexit, now Italy is pushing to go back to their own currency, Hungry and Poland are now partnering to pull back from European policies.

The German government is the problem in Europe. Thankfully the German people are waking up and voting for parties who want to dissolve the EU. Anti Semitism is on the rise in Germany, they need to create safe places for women, it’s a mess all due to this government. The one you love so much.

I used foul language because it is the most accurate description of your statements: bullshit. I read an essay, recently, titled "No, You’re Not Entitled to Your Opinion" that is a very good discussion of things that happen on here. You're entitled to an opinion insofar as you can argue it, and by argue I mean provide evidence. That is what good argumentation is all about, not mindlessly repeating claims without any sort of backing.

Now, if you would like to have a discussion about all of this and provide evidence (not opinion pieces as you typically provide) about how things are going in the EU and Germany being the cause, feel free. I will wait for such evidence to be provided to support your claims before engaging in this discussion further.

And I don't love the German government. I'm actually anti-Merkel. She is neoliberal, she is center-right, and she is not concerned about the welfare of the citizenry that need that concern the most. I am not a fan of the CDU/CSU in any way.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-08-2018, 02:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I used foul language because it is the most accurate description of your statements: bullshit. I read an essay, recently, titled "No, You’re Not Entitled to Your Opinion" that is a very good discussion of things that happen on here. You're entitled to an opinion insofar as you can argue it, and by argue I mean provide evidence. That is what good argumentation is all about, not mindlessly repeating claims without any sort of backing.

Now, if you would like to have a discussion about all of this and provide evidence (not opinion pieces as you typically provide) about how things are going in the EU and Germany being the cause, feel free. I will wait for such evidence to be provided to support your claims before engaging in this discussion further.

And I don't love the German government. I'm actually anti-Merkel. She is neoliberal, she is center-right, and she is not concerned about the welfare of the citizenry that need that concern the most. I am not a fan of the CDU/CSU in any way.

Yeah you want it go even worse with your boy Schultz.

Look I post article after article about numerous experts that find the Germans manipulating currency with the EU to their benefit. There is also significant evidence of the EU crippling member nations “for the food of Europe”. Which happens to benefit germany since they manipulate currency.

Germany is not a good place and it’s going down. Realistic Germans see this and it’s exactly why we had a bump in AfD voting.

Swear away.... after all when you have nothing to say you just fall into foul language.