How bad of shape has the US become?

[GMDino]

In your estimation how much worse is the United States after seven years under President Obama?

In what areas and why?

Also, what will the candidate you support do to change those areas and improve them?

[JustWinBaby]

The jobs and the economy have never been weaker ahead of a coming recession....better hope the next want isn't too deep or long.

Doubling the deficits and adding another $10T in debt....there's that.

Pretty much put some of the bad W policies on steroids, added some more of his own. All in all, I rank him somewhere around W. 16 years of failing so, yeah, we are in pretty bad shape.

[Belsnickel]

I guess my issue with the last 16 years as a whole has been that we have seen our government go down the pot because of a lack of cooperation. I mean, the branches don't have to always agree, but it's be nice if they could at least get along.

Makes me wonder whether the presidential system of government has failed us.

[*Nately120*]

(02-24-2016, 04:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I guess my issue with the last 16 years as a whole has been that we have seen our government go down the pot because of a lack of cooperation. I mean, the branches don't have to always agree, but it's be nice if they could at least get along.

Makes me wonder whether the presidential system of government has failed us.

Sometimes I wonder if the US governmental system and personnel has become a giant joke, or it always was an I'm just old enough and/or there is 24/7 coverage to make it more known.  It's sort of like blown calls in sports...are there more now, or do we notice more because they are shown 100 times from each angle in high definition during a 10 minute game stoppage?

[Benton]

A plane crashes into the ocean. The two pilots are still alive, but the plane is taking on water and starting to sink. The co-pilot looks to the pilot and says "Well, at least we aren't falling any more."

[*michaelsean*]

(02-24-2016, 04:33 PM)Benton Wrote: A plane crashes into the ocean. The two pilots are still alive, but the plane is taking on water and starting to sink. The co-pilot looks to the pilot and says "Well, at least we aren't falling any more."

Wouldn't sinking still be falling?

[Benton]

(02-24-2016, 04:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Wouldn't sinking still be falling?

Thanks, Jerry Jokekiller.

[McC]

(02-24-2016, 04:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I guess my issue with the last 16 years as a whole has been that we have seen our government go down the pot because of a lack of cooperation. I mean, the branches don't have to always agree, but it's be nice if they could at least get along.

Makes me wonder whether the presidential system of government has failed us.

It's not the system.  It's the people exploiting it.  The system is beautiful as far as frameworks go, but inherent in most frameworks is room for interpretation and/or corruption of it.   Bottom line, they couldn't make it fool proof.

[JustWinBaby]

We are becoming more and morr like Europe, which is the goal of a good many people. What most of those people don't realize is with that "European utopia" comes European-style unemployment, wages and taxation - all of which are at level far beyond what is acceptable in the US.

[McC]

(02-24-2016, 04:56 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: We are becoming more and morr like Europe, which is the goal of a good many people.  What most of those people don't realize is with that "European utopia" comes European-style unemployment, wages and taxation - all of which are at level far beyond what is acceptable in the US.

Well said.  It took us over a hundred years to get the Euro out of us in the first place.  God forbid we let it back in.

[Belsnickel]

(02-24-2016, 04:56 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: We are becoming more and morr like Europe, which is the goal of a good many people. What most of those people don't realize is with that "European utopia" comes European-style unemployment, wages and taxation - all of which are at level far beyond what is acceptable in the US.

See, I like the idea of the way things are over there. The only problem is that it just wouldn't work here for a number of reasons. Not just cultural differences, but even geography. One big cost saver in many of these countries in Europe is the lack of a need for a vehicle. Public transportation, walking, and cycling will get you just about anywhere. There are a lot of people in European countries with a car (that's another thing, more one car families) that gathers dust in their garage because they hardly ever use it. We could never make that work here because we are not as compact.

So all of that to say that I get what you're saying and think that those things wouldn't work here in the same way. But I'll also point out there are EU countries with lower unemployment rates.

[Benton]

(02-24-2016, 05:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: See, I like the idea of the way things are over there. 

Then... move.



Seriously though, you mention transportation and that's one of the biggest reasons. It's hard to get decent data on rural vs. urban because of the way the U.S. Census classifies "urban (a town of a couple thousand can classify as urban regardless of access to amenities like mass transit). But however you look at it, there are too many people spread out across too much of the country for it to work here. When you toss in suburban folks who still have to commute to take part in public transportation, that's another sizable chunk that have to spend income on a car and not higher goods or services.

Plus there's the couple hundred billion the feds and states spend every year on road maintenance.

[Belsnickel]

(02-24-2016, 06:01 PM)Benton Wrote: Then... move.

Mentioned this in another thread, I actually want to. Just a lot of ducks to get in a row. Trying to expatriate from the U.S. to Germany without a job already lined up or a spouse waiting is difficult.

[Benton]

(02-24-2016, 06:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Mentioned this in another thread, I actually want to. Just a lot of ducks to get in a row. Trying to expatriate from the U.S. to Germany without a job already lined up or a spouse waiting is difficult.

Your wife won't move with you? That's a kick in the nads.

Personally, I'm wanting to move to Wyoming or Arizona, but having trouble getting the family to go along. None of them have been out west. Think we're going to this fall, hopefully change their mind.

[Belsnickel]

(02-24-2016, 06:26 PM)Benton Wrote: Your wife won't move with you? That's a kick in the nads.

Personally, I'm wanting to move to Wyoming or Arizona, but having trouble getting the family to go along. None of them have been out west. Think we're going to this fall, hopefully change their mind.

My wife would move with me, but I'm referring to having a spouse that is already a citizen.

As much as a I complain about some things in Virginia, i wouldn't move to any other state. If I move outside of Virginia it will be to somewhere in Europe.

[Yojimbo]

The United States is in a downward spiral due to bad trade deals that have killed American manufacturing and the American middle class. Until those bad deals are changed and it becomes unprofitable to manufacture overseas and bring the goods back on the cheap, the economy will continue to be weak.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-24-2016, 06:57 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: The United States is in a downward spiral due to bad trade deals that have killed American manufacturing and the American middle class. Until those bad deals are changed and it becomes unprofitable to manufacture overseas and bring the goods back on the cheap, the economy will continue to be weak.

Yup.  I would add in an ever declining focus on education, but that has been 30 years in the making at least.  

Unfortunately, by the time those trade deals are changed and the manufacturing jobs are brought back to the states, only thing worth manufacturing will be the 1st set of manufacturing robots.  Once they start manufacturing themselves, we're ******.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-24-2016, 06:26 PM)Benton Wrote: Your wife won't move with you? That's a kick in the nads.

Personally, I'm wanting to move to Wyoming or Arizona, but having trouble getting the family to go along. None of them have been out west. Think we're going to this fall, hopefully change their mind.

Wyoming is a vastly underrated state imho. 

[Benton]

(02-24-2016, 06:57 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: The United States is in a downward spiral due to bad trade deals that have killed American manufacturing and the American middle class. Until those bad deals are changed and it becomes unprofitable to manufacture overseas and bring the goods back on the cheap, the economy will continue to be weak.

agreed.
eventually it will change. It's the cycle of things in our country. Eventually people get hungry enough they stop going with the status quo.and eventually their descendants will get as lazy as ours and as easily manipulated.

(02-24-2016, 07:19 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Wyoming is a vastly underrated state imho. 

it's beautiful and the people are friendly. The only problem for me is the job market there isn't as healthy as where I'm at now. At least not without some hellacious commutes.

[McC]

(02-24-2016, 07:50 PM)Benton Wrote: agreed.
eventually it will change. It's the cycle of things in our country. Eventually people get hungry enough they stop going with the status quo.and eventually their descendants will get as lazy as ours and as easily manipulated.

it's beautiful and the people are friendly. The only problem for me is the job market there isn't as healthy as where I'm at now. At least not without some hellacious commutes.

Don't they get a crap ton of snow out there?