How did Paul Alexander Keep His Job Through The 90's???

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I can see how Paul Alexander kept his job in the 1990s because the coaching in all areas was incompetent and he looked like an equal. What befuddles me is why he was retained when Marvin Lewis was hired. Putting it in medical terms, you don't remove all but one tumor if you want the patient to improve. You remove all of them.

The big difference I see is talent; guys like Rich Braham, Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, and Andrew Whitworth couldn't be held back much, even by Paul Alexander.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2017, 03:34 PM)McC Wrote: I believe they did the bolded because PA assured them would would be fine without those guys.

Really Ced was bad at RT and got benched. Fisher played what 3 games there last year?

Then rely on an unproven Guard to replace Zeitler who graded out as the 7th best Guard. If they guy you started was worse than the 7th best Guard...you decline at that spot.

Then, Center has always been a problem going back to Cook and Ghiaciuc.

So you know there are 4 line spots with issues. Most likely 4. Could 1 or 2 of those guys surprise? Sure.

[McC]

(09-26-2017, 03:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Really Ced was bad at RT and got benched. Fisher played what 3 games there last year?

Then rely on an unproven Guard to replace Zeitler who graded out as the 7th best Guard. If they guy you started was worse than the 7th best Guard...you decline at that spot.

Then, Center has always been a problem going back to Cook and Ghiaciuc.

So you know there are 4 line spots with issues. Most likely 4. Could 1 or 2 of those guys surprise? Sure.

I agree this is not the line Marvin wanted.  But why was he so powerless to do anything about it?

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2017, 03:57 PM)McC Wrote: I agree this is not the line Marvin wanted.  But why was he so powerless to do anything about it?

What options would he have? This is an organization that likely wouldn't sign a free agent lineman that might jeopardize the 3rd Round compensatory pick for Zeitler.

Other teams that needed Tackles moved to get them quick.

Then, it turns to the draft. Do you select another high tackle or take blazing fast John Ross? You know the Bengals like speed.

[BengalsRocker]

"Hey boss...  you want for me to play sumfin' for ya?"



"Yes Alexa... play the one... the one, truly I love."


"You gonna sing too boss?"




"You bet your sweet ass I am!"



"We're in the money!  We're in the money! We've got a lot of what it takes to get alooooong!!"

[muskiesfan]

Any other NFL team would have fired this sack of shit years ago. Mike Brown has got to be the dumbest person in the world when it comes to football. He's also one of the most stubborn people. It has to be his way and his way only. Marvelous Marvin is obviously in line with that. Alexander the Great is as well. That's why they're going nowhere. They've been worse than bungalized, they've been Brownwashed (like brainwashed, just accept it and move on). Mike Brown walks into a room and those two are falling all over themselves on who gets to kiss his ass.

Honestly, after all of the losing, after all the bad breaks (Thurman, Pollock, Henry, etc, etc, etc), putting up with all the bullshit that is Mike Brown, neither of them have tried to leave. Not only has Mike Brown not fired either, neither have tried to escape working for the worst owner/GM in professional sports. They both know they can just cashing checks as long as they keep their hands buried in the bosses ass.

Winning will always take a back seat to making money; from the owner, to the GM (same person, I know), to the head coach, to the OLine coach.

[*bengalfan74*]

For whatever reasons Mike and Paul "hit it off". And like others have said once Mike likes you it doesn't matter how bad you suck or if you can do the job, loyalty to a fault ! That's more important than winning Championships. At least to Mike.

[NC_Bengal]

The quotes from Mathis are interesting.

I did several searches trying to find articles listing the best OL coaches (or best assistants). Never saw his name mentioned. Has any team sought him out? Interviewed him? Any quotes from Whit or Levi about how Paul changed their approach or really helped teach them something? Anything?

Just looking for some outside (non message board member) vote of confidence in his favor.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-26-2017, 07:09 PM)NC_Bengal Wrote: The quotes from Mathis are interesting.

I did several searches trying to find articles listing the best OL coaches (or best assistants).   Never saw his name mentioned.  Has any team sought him out?  Interviewed him? Any quotes from Whit or Levi about how Paul changed their approach or really helped teach them something?  Anything?

Just looking for some outside (non message board member) vote of confidence in his favor.

Fredtoast always used to proclaim he was regularly asked to speak at some NFL o-line coaches convention, or something along those lines ? I couldn't tell you much more about it, I always had Fred on ignore. 

And he was probably only asked to speak because he was senior to all of them in job tenure by like 15 years.

[Whatever]

(09-26-2017, 01:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: For those that don't know...Paul Alexander was hired while Dave Shula was coach here. While we have't won a playoff game in 26+ years...Paul Alexander was here for 23 of them. (He started here in 1994.)

They actually promoted him to Assistant Head Coach in 2004.

We had arguably the worst offensive line in the NFL through the 1990's. How did Paul Alexander keep his job?

Well, at least two other Bengals' assistant coaches from the lost decade(Ken Anderson, Dick LeBeau) went on to win SB rings with other teams, so simply being on those staffs doesn't necessarily mean that they're a bad coach.

Plus, we all know that MB put little emphasis on OL personnel throughout the '90's.  Our OL did suck, but you can definitely argue that Alexander was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken shxt during that period.  

For the talent evaluation part of his job, he was a double edged sword.  He nailed the premium picks he got for a long time. If you were doing the Bengals All Time team, no doubt Whit, Willie, and Levi Jones would be your T's, along with Munoz.  Plus Willie and Levi were largely thought to be reaches where we drafted them. He had two different G's, Steinbach and Zeitler, get record setting contracts for their position.  But, he was terrible with mid-late round picks, aside from Anthony Collins and Scott Kooistra, either taking bust project players or below average starters that he seemed reticent to draft over.  However, with both Og and Fisher looking like busts, you can't really say he nails the top picks anymore.

As a coach, I would still say he is above average based on one criteria.  How many Bengals OL have you seen sign elsewhere and maintain or improve their level of play?  Only Evan Mathis comes to mind as a guy who really stepped up once he left.  Now, how many have you seen leave and completely fall apart or suffer a massive backslide?  Lots.  Steinbach wasn't the same player in Cleveland, Collins was a disaster in Tampa, Stacy Andrews bombed in Philly, Zeitler has regressed in Cleveland, and Whit has fallen off in LA.  If he was a bad coach, I'd expect more Mathis's than Collins's, but the reverse is true.

Ultimately, this team needs a major housecleaning and culture change, and PA needs to go, along with the rest of the coaching staff.  With Two big misses thrown on top of a mediocre top 10 pick in Andre, it's just clear that he doesn't have the knack he used to for hitting early, and he's never hit in the mid-late rounds.  I think he would be ok in an organization where he didn't have a role in personnel decisions, but his misses are really adding up here.

[Murdock2420]

Just a guess...

[J24]

When he has good talent to work worth the offensive line has been good when we haven't it's been bad. I don't think the problem with this team is coaching but more so front office and roster building. I mean this is 2017 how does any front office not understand that there is a shortage of NFL caliber offensive line coming out of college in the modern era? Yet we let two of our best go without a fight.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

Maybe he doesn't want a coaching gig, but how on earth is Anthony Munoz not even a consultant for the OL in this organization.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2017, 09:16 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Maybe he doesn't want a coaching gig, but how on earth is Anthony Munoz not even a consultant for the OL in this organization.

He is working with offensive lineman...for the Cleveland Browns!


http://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/26/former-bengals-great-anthony-munoz-guest-coaching-browns/

[Shake n Blake]

BengalsRocker deserves props for that post. Alexa? ROFLMMFAO!

[*Go Cards*]

(09-26-2017, 02:11 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Same reason Pacman is still here: he's close with the Brown family. You become buddy buddy with the family, you have a job for life. They don't have the testicular fortitude to lay off their good friends. It's that simple. Conflict of interest = bad business.

Agree with this

It is better to be liked by owner than to be good at ones job it seems. 

[*Go Cards*]

Will say in his defense that it is difficult when the owner refuses to pay interior OL.

But it is time.

[muskiesfan]

I wonder if Alexander the Great IS the reason we don't value interior OLine. Mike obviously trusts him and Alexander the Great is allowed to pick his own personnel. So could he also be part of the problem with not valuing interior OLine? It honestly wouldn't surprise me.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-26-2017, 08:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, at least two other Bengals' assistant coaches from the lost decade(Ken Anderson, Dick LeBeau) went on to win SB rings with other teams, so simply being on those staffs doesn't necessarily mean that they're a bad coach.

Plus, we all know that MB put little emphasis on OL personnel throughout the '90's.  Our OL did suck, but you can definitely argue that Alexander was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken shxt during that period.  

For the talent evaluation part of his job, he was a double edged sword.  He nailed the premium picks he got for a long time. If you were doing the Bengals All Time team, no doubt Whit, Willie, and Levi Jones would be your T's, along with Munoz.  Plus Willie and Levi were largely thought to be reaches where we drafted them. He had two different G's, Steinbach and Zeitler, get record setting contracts for their position.  But, he was terrible with mid-late round picks, aside from Anthony Collins and Scott Kooistra, either taking bust project players or below average starters that he seemed reticent to draft over.  However, with both Og and Fisher looking like busts, you can't really say he nails the top picks anymore.

As a coach, I would still say he is above average based on one criteria.  How many Bengals OL have you seen sign elsewhere and maintain or improve their level of play?  Only Evan Mathis comes to mind as a guy who really stepped up once he left.  Now, how many have you seen leave and completely fall apart or suffer a massive backslide?  Lots.  Steinbach wasn't the same player in Cleveland, Collins was a disaster in Tampa, Stacy Andrews bombed in Philly, Zeitler has regressed in Cleveland, and Whit has fallen off in LA.  If he was a bad coach, I'd expect more Mathis's than Collins's, but the reverse is true.

Ultimately, this team needs a major housecleaning and culture change, and PA needs to go, along with the rest of the coaching staff.  With Two big misses thrown on top of a mediocre top 10 pick in Andre, it's just clear that he doesn't have the knack he used to for hitting early, and he's never hit in the mid-late rounds.  I think he would be ok in an organization where he didn't have a role in personnel decisions, but his misses are really adding up here.

And that's why coaching doesn't matter as much as management. Lebeau as the coordinator here didn't produce a good defense. He failed as a HC.

Then, he'd go to Pittsburgh and have dominant defenses.

What changed?  The organizations.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2017, 10:12 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And that's why coaching doesn't matter as much as management. Lebeau as the coordinator here didn't produce a good defense. He failed as a HC.

Then, he'd go to Pittsburgh and have dominant defenses.

What changed?  The organizations.

LeBeau had a decent defense here under Wyche and Paul Brown.