"I don't stand by anything."

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-04-2017, 05:35 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Hasty and impulsive statements don't shed a good light on his leadership qualities nor do they show an ability to thoroughly think through an issue.  Nor does it show an understanding of the consequences of statements when they're made without consideration.  The fervor with which the initial accusation was made doesn't match dismissive attempts to squelch discussion on that topic now by the media.  At the least, his statements erode away any credibility he may have left with independents taking a wait and see approach.   

I guess the question that needs to be asked here is how much do people actually care about what Trump said about Obama? A common statement made by people who voted for Trump was that they wanted to see what he could do for them and their families and didn't care all that much about his personal life and all the crap going around in the media about what he said about "whoever". They cared about him "shaking up Washington".

This whole Obama thing is really a non-issue in my opinion. It's an issue in the sense that he accused Obama of a crime, but I don't believe it's an issue in the sense that those who voted for Trump really care so much that this challenges his credibility as a president. I believe Trump is going to be judged on what he actually gets done as president and issues like this will not be at the forefront.

I feel this is the very thing the left failed to understand during the election and fail to understand now. People didn't vote for Trump because he was a really nice guy that said really nice things. He was a guy that said he'd get things done, and voters took the chance on that.

Quote:fredtoast

How silly to judge a person on what he actually says when instead we can play pretend that he meant something different.

Very convenient in this case since pretending keeps him from looking like an idiot.

So you honestly think Trump literally meant he doesn't stand by anything? Interesting.


oncemoreuntothejimbreech 

Quote:oncemoreuntothejimbreech

It's very telling that is the best you could offer. But, I'm not sure you meant it. I think you're just saying that to avoid saying something else which could be used against you.

Well, not really, but sure. I find it strange that you're sitting here acting like that if Trump was a real man he'd stand by everything even when the things he wants have no chance of actually passing without some kind of revision. And if Trump were a real man, he'd keep up his offensive attacks even in the face of newly learned information and political opposition that causes him to compromise. You would rather have Trump act like a big baby and fold his arms and stomp his foot in the ground and say "I'm standing by what I said no matter what"..... which would amount to literally nothing getting done. This is a case of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-05-2017, 10:12 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I guess the question that needs to be asked here is how much do people actually care about what Trump said about Obama? A common statement made by people who voted for Trump was that they wanted to see what he could do for them and their families and didn't care all that much about his personal life and all the crap going around in the media about what he said about "whoever". They cared about him "shaking up Washington".

This whole Obama thing is really a non-issue in my opinion. It's an issue in the sense that he accused Obama of a crime, but I don't believe it's an issue in the sense that those who voted for Trump really care so much that this challenges his credibility as a president. I believe Trump is going to be judged on what he actually gets done as president and issues like this will not be at the forefront.

I feel this is the very thing the left failed to understand during the election and fail to understand now. People didn't vote for Trump because he was a really nice guy that said really nice things. He was a guy that said he'd get things done, and voters took the chance on that.

This is true of his base yes.  And the left didn't have a grasp of this, sure.  But there are independents who voted for Trump and as I mentioned in my post, Trump's credibility there will erode when he doesn't hold himself accountable to his words.  It's not about saying nice things, but actually saying true things.

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-05-2017, 11:37 AM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: This is true of his base yes.  And the left didn't have a grasp of this, sure.  But there are independents who voted for Trump and as I mentioned in my post, Trump's credibility there will erode when he doesn't hold himself accountable to his words.  It's not about saying nice things, but actually saying true things.

But I guess my point again is that Trump's credibility will not be based on situations like this where he says stuff about his oponnents. People are going to care more about what Trump is actually doing, not what he is saying. 

This is a guy who when he was running for president said he "knows more than the generals". Credibility based on what Trump says is the least of Trumps worries at this point. 

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-05-2017, 01:24 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: But I guess my point again is that Trump's credibility will not be based on situations like this where he says stuff about his oponnents. People are going to care more about what Trump is actually doing, not what he is saying. 

This is a guy who when he was running for president said he "knows more than the generals". Credibility based on what Trump says is the least of Trumps worries at this point. 

We'll find out in 2018 and 2020 I guess. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 01:40 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: We'll find out in 2018 and 2020 I guess. 

If only everyone else clinging to every word, facial gesture, tweet, hand movement, ect...Trump does would have this mentality; we may get somewhere. Keep just trying to shoot him down, you are your own worst enemy.

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 02:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If only everyone else clinging to every word, facial gesture, tweet, hand movement, ect...Trump does would have this mentality; we may get somewhere. Keep just trying to shoot him down, you are your own worst enemy.

Still suggesting that when the POTUS makes a wild claim on twitter, demands an investigation, insists he has been proven right when he hasn't and then blows off a question about it that everyone should look the other way?

Or would you rather we just focus on his political acts as if that wasn't one?

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 02:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: Still suggesting that when the POTUS makes a wild claim on twitter, demands an investigation, insists he has been proven right when he hasn't and then blows off a question about it that everyone should look the other way?

Or would you rather we just focus on his political acts as if that wasn't one?

Others "Looking the other way", "ignoring". ect... are just phrases folks use to justify their obsession(s). to me I always ask the question "What does it really matter"? Did the same with Barry.

I'm just saying focus on the trees; you're gonna miss the forest. But feel free.

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 03:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Others "Looking the other way", "ignoring". ect... are just phrases folks use to justify their obsession(s). to me I always ask the question "What does it really matter"? Did the same with Barry.

I'm just saying focus on the trees; you're gonna miss the forest. But feel free.

So what, in your humble opinion, would be the forest?

If it's not what the POTUS says and does every day....

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 03:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: So what, in your humble opinion, would be the forest?

If it's not what the POTUS says and does every day....

His executive orders, his interactions with the World's leaders, his resolutions, his appointees, his relationship with the other branches

Not:
His tweets
his interviews
his wife
his daughter
everything else that goes wrong
his location

[Matt_Crimson]

(05-05-2017, 03:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not:
His tweets
his interviews
his wife
his daughter
everything else that goes wrong
his location

What about the fact that he likes meatloaf? Seems pretty important to me.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 04:01 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: What about the fact that he likes meatloaf? Seems pretty important to me.

Being orange is pretty important too; as is the historic spelling of his last name. But some of his defenders ignore or overlook these things in their constant defense of him

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 03:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: His executive orders, his interactions with the World's leaders, his resolutions, his appointees, his relationship with the other branches

Not:
His tweets
his interviews
his wife
his daughter
everything else that goes wrong
his location

So if the POTUS tweets that the former President wire tapped him...and his basis for that was a news story on FOX and he says he has proof...we should NOT talk about that or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS is interviewed and comes off poorly, doesn't answer questions or does back flips to remove himself from responsibility of anything bad....we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS wife never moves into the WH, or at least costs the US tax payers millions of extra dollars...we should NOT talk about that or hold them accountable.

If the POTUS gives his daughter an office in the WH and names her an advisor (albeit unpaid) and also puts her husband in charge of most of the things the POTUS should be doing despite no one voting for the son in law...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS insists that Mexico will pay for the wall, that he's unaware of how treaties and trade deals work, or anything else he has shown himself to be poorly prepared to handle...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS spends 3/4 to half his weekends in office golfing and a club he owns and is pouring tax payer dollars into...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

Because you never talked about those things about Obama.

Got it.

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 04:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Being orange is pretty important too; as is the historic spelling of his last name. But some of his defenders ignore or overlook these things in their constant defense of him

Oh!  I didn't know that those posts from the campaign last year still bothered people so much!

Honestly don't know the last time anyone talked about Drumpf or his awful spray tan. 

There are people pointing out his hypocrisy of rating women on a 1-10 scale when he's a large, out of shape man.

I suppose if one wanted to lump those together with actual criticisms of the POTUS actions and words they could find a way to belittle all of it.  that would make sense.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 04:23 PM)GMDino Wrote: So if the POTUS tweets that the former President wire tapped him...and his basis for that was a news story on FOX and he says he has proof...we should NOT talk about that or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS is interviewed and comes off poorly, doesn't answer questions or does back flips to remove himself from responsibility of anything bad....we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS wife never moves into the WH, or at least costs the US tax payers millions of extra dollars...we should NOT talk about that or hold them accountable.

If the POTUS gives his daughter an office in the WH and names her an advisor (albeit unpaid) and also puts her husband in charge of most of the things the POTUS should be doing despite no one voting for the son in law...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS insists that Mexico will pay for the wall, that he's unaware of how treaties and trade deals work, or anything else he has shown himself to be poorly prepared to handle...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

If the POTUS spends 3/4 to half his weekends in office golfing and a club he owns and is pouring tax payer dollars into...we should NOT talk about it or hold him accountable.

Because you never talked about those things about Obama.

Got it.

I NEVER talked about Obama's family to any extent. I could not tell you where his wife or daughters stayed; nor did I care.

I did not care that Obama stated the ex-president gave him a failing economy 

I never talked about what Obama did on vacation or in his free time

I tend to focus on the important stuff, not the water-cooler talk; but you keep up the good fight.....

[GMDino]

(05-05-2017, 04:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I NEVER talked about Obama's family to any extent. I could not tell you where his wife or daughters stayed; nor did I care.

I did not care that Obama stated the ex-president gave him a failing economy 

I never talked about what Obama did on vacation or in his free time

I tend to focus on the important stuff, not the water-cooler talk; but you keep up the good fight.....

Well you ignored the "why" of why those issues are talked about.  Kind of expected that.

See obama was raked over the coals for his vacations.  The current president was one doing it.  Now he's doing the opposite what he said he would do.  To the extreme.  That's why.

You could have given Obama crap over what he said he inherited from the Bush administration.  He wanted the job, he knew what he was getting.  However Obama didn't just make random accusations, claim he had proof and then refuse to talk about it when asked.  That's why.

Definitely not "important stuff" when the POTUS comes off as unstable, paranoid and unable to defend his own words.  Yep.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 05:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well you ignored the "why" of why those issues are talked about.  Kind of expected that.

See obama was raked over the coals for his vacations.  The current president was one doing it.  Now he's doing the opposite what he said he would do.  To the extreme.  That's why.

You could have given Obama crap over what he said he inherited from the Bush administration.  He wanted the job, he knew what he was getting.  However Obama didn't just make random accusations, claim he had proof and then refuse to talk about it when asked.  That's why.

Definitely not "important stuff" when the POTUS comes off as unstable, paranoid and unable to defend his own words.  Yep.

As I said on election eve: We are going to spend a minimum of the next 4 years being what we have hated for the last 8. Nobody makes my statement more profound than you and a couple others in this forum.

[Vas Deferens]

Bfine. I find it hard to believe you don't care about the amount of the American people's money the POTUS is spending on his golf trips down to mar a lago.

It's a huge waste of money considering there are plenty of courses much closer to D.C.

[*bfine32*]

(05-05-2017, 05:38 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Bfine.  I find it hard to believe you don't care about the amount of the American people's money the POTUS is spending on his golf trips down to mar a lago.

It's a huge waste of money considering there are plenty of courses much closer to D.C.

Not sure this is serious, but:

What is the difference in money to each taxpayer if he golfs in VA or FL?

What has the taxpayer lost if his wife stays in NY while his daughter stays in DC?

Once my taxes are being raised to pay for Trump's ways as to where he and his family stay, vacation wake me up.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-05-2017, 10:12 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I guess the question that needs to be asked here is how much do people actually care about what Trump said about Obama? A common statement made by people who voted for Trump was that they wanted to see what he could do for them and their families and didn't care all that much about his personal life and all the crap going around in the media about what he said about "whoever". They cared about him "shaking up Washington".

The question is can you trust what He says?

The Obama accusation is just a single tree in a very big forest.

Quote:This whole Obama thing is really a non-issue in my opinion. It's an issue in the sense that he accused Obama of a crime, but I don't believe it's an issue in the sense that those who voted for Trump really care so much that this challenges his credibility as a president. I believe Trump is going to be judged on what he actually gets done as president and issues like this will not be at the forefront.

This isn't about if you did or didn't vote for Trump and why. It isn't about if you support him or not. It is about whether you can believe what He says.

Quote:I feel this is the very thing the left failed to understand during the election and fail to understand now. People didn't vote for Trump because he was a really nice guy that said really nice things. He was a guy that said he'd get things done, and voters took the chance on that.

He gets things done? How do you know? Because He said so and you believed Him? He says a lot of things. Much of which is contradictory. None of which He will stand by.

Quote:So you honestly think Trump literally meant he doesn't stand by anything? Interesting.

Are you accusing Trump of lying? Interesting.

Quote:Well, not really, but sure. I find it strange that you're sitting here acting like that if Trump was a real man he'd stand by everything even when the things he wants have no chance of actually passing without some kind of revision.

I didn't state any of those things.

Quote:And if Trump were a real man, he'd keep up his offensive attacks even in the face of newly learned information and political opposition that causes him to compromise.

I didn't say any of that, either. The only new information regarding His Obama accusation is everyone in the intelligence community has commented Trump's statement is false. Yet, in the interview He claimed He had been proven true right after He refused to stand by his original statement. He can't even maintain a consistent train of thought during a single answer.

Quote:You would rather have Trump act like a big baby and fold his arms and stomp his foot in the ground and say "I'm standing by what I said no matter what".....which would amount to literally nothing getting done.

I didn't say any of that, either. If He is going to make a comment there should a a good reason why. If He changes His opinion there should be a good reason why. He should be able to explain those reasons.

Quote:This is a case of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

No, this is a case of He brought this all on Himself.



Ask yourself if you would hire a mechanic if he told you, "I don't stand by anything. "

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-05-2017, 03:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Others "Looking the other way", "ignoring". ect... are just phrases folks use to justify their obsession(s). to me I always ask the question "What does it really matter"? Did the same with Barry.

I'm just saying focus on the trees; you're gonna miss the forest. But feel free.

The Obama comment has provoked two intelligence investigations, one ethics probe, and damaged the integrity of Nunes who had to recuse himself from one investigation along with wasting tax dollars as Trump threatens to shut down the government.