I would like to ask the left to give me their position on illegal immigration.

[GMDino]

(02-21-2017, 01:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah we had birth certificates.

Except Obama's.  

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-21-2017, 03:34 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Having worked in restaurants a majority of my adult life, and in retail.  I've worked with a ton of immigrants, and most I know are just trying to secure a better life doing the work that many of our citizens don't want to do.  Now that being said, the best way to enforce illegal immigration IMO is to crack down on employers who hire them.  It's ironic to me that we are a nation of immigrants, yet we shun immigrants.  We have a long history of it, Irish, Italians, Jews, Germans, Mexicans, and on and on...etc. All have been persecuted upon arrival.  People that are migrating to this country are doing so out of extreme desperation.

Most are trying to migrate here because of war or extreme poverty (or both).  Where some of these people have had to live, I couldn't fathom.  It's amazing to me that so many lack empathy for them.  I couldn't think of how bad things would have to get to pick up my entire life and move to a country that I didn't understand the language, customs, and culture. It's not something one takes lightly.

On that note vetting is needed we can't just let anybody in. However I believe the process we've been using works, but throwing the baby out with the bath water (as Trumps policy orders) is a bad idea.  Many innocents get caught in wide sweep, breaking up family's.  I read the USA TODAY almost daily and I read an article about a woman who'd been here since she was 14yo and was being deported leaving behind her American husband and children.  She has been denied citizenship, because she's been convicted of a crime.  Her crime...entering the USA illegally when she was 14yo.  That is devastating, so yea IMO some things need to change.

I believe you are talking about Garcia de Rayos, if so, then some of your facts are off. Only her Children were American, her husband was here Illegally too. That was not her only crime, she had been arrested and convicted of identity theft and it why she had a deportation order against her in the first place. She was living here on borrowed time as it was.

I think sanctuary cities are racist. I don't see any cities willing to protect White or Black people that commit crimes do you?

[samhain]

I'm pretty moderate on the issue to be honest. Deportations don't bother me and the seven country ban doesn't bother me either, although I think it's a bad look constitutionally to put a ban in place that seems to be based on religion. Deporting illegals and extreme vetting from hot spot countries are most certainly not the reason that I despise Trump or his administration. Those issues probably don't even crack the top ten, TBH.

As for the wall, I think it's a completely moronic waste of money that is nothing more than red meat to throw to his base. Hopefully the republicans in Congress are smart enough not to fund the garbage idea.

[SteelCitySouth]

(02-21-2017, 12:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Not anymore.  Issued at birth.

Nope.  Source?  Have two kids born 2005 and 2006.  You have to apply for the SSN.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-21-2017, 05:13 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Nope.  Source?  Have two kids born 2005 and 2006.  You have to apply for the SSN.

No I was wrong about that.  I thought I mentioned it in a following post but I guess I didn't. When I said issued I knew you had to apply, but I thought it was mandatory. You have to get them for your children or you are not eligible for certain things.

[Belsnickel]

(02-21-2017, 04:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think sanctuary cities are racist. I don't see any cities willing to protect White or Black people that commit crimes do you?

If they were undocumented immigrants, then yes, they would be protected in the same way. It's not that they escape punishment for crimes if they are arrested, tried, and found guilty.

I do find the irony in this statement from you rather humorous, though.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(02-21-2017, 05:13 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Nope.  Source?  Have two kids born 2005 and 2006.  You have to apply for the SSN.

Are you allowed to claim them as dependents when you do your taxes?

[SteelCitySouth]

(02-21-2017, 05:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Are you allowed to claim them as dependents when you do your taxes?

I am because I filed the SSN forms and got them their numbers.  I wasn't required to though and they sure weren't handed to me when they were born.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-21-2017, 06:07 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I am because I filed the SSN forms and got them their numbers.  I wasn't required to though and they sure weren't handed to me when they were born.

Yeah I worded my wrong answer incorrectly.  Not a good couple minutes for me.

[Benton]

Was reading a story in a local paper this morning that sounds like something I hear a lot.

Guy just got detained by ICE at the restaurant he managed. They weren't there looking for him, but decided to check everyone's papers while they were there. Well liked, been here for over a 20 years. According to the story, he applied for citizenship the right way, but — and this is the part I hear a lot — he's been waiting a decade to get approved for citizenship.

Either we have a legal immigration system where you do it the right way and it works, or we don't. Currently, we don't. You try it the right way, and because of the bureaucracy, you're never going to get through the system. Unless you know someone. Some of my friends that are large ag producers don't have a problem helping out migrant workers trying to become legal citizens because they have good communication through groups like KFB with lawmakers who can get green cards pushed through.

This is the kind of mess you have when you pass laws with no way to pay for their enforcement.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-21-2017, 06:29 PM)Benton Wrote: Was  reading a story in a local paper this morning that sounds like something I hear a lot.

Guy just got detained by ICE at the restaurant he managed. They weren't there looking for him, but decided to check everyone's papers while they were there. Well liked, been here for over a 20 years. According to the story, he applied for citizenship the right way, but — and this is the part I hear a lot — he's been waiting a decade to get approved for citizenship.

Either we have a legal immigration system where you do it the right way and it works, or we don't. Currently, we don't. You try it the right way, and because of the bureaucracy, you're never going to get through the system. Unless you know someone. Some of my friends that are large ag producers don't have a problem helping out migrant workers trying to become legal citizens because they have good communication through groups like KFB with lawmakers who can get green cards pushed through.

This is the kind of mess you have when you pass laws with no way to pay for their enforcement.

If you do it properly, then don't they let you hang around until it's your turn?

[Bengalzona]

(02-21-2017, 10:33 AM)michaelsean Wrote: For me it's not fear, it's just do you have borders or don't you?  Do you let whomever wants to come in stay as long as they get past the first line of defense?

That being the case, why isn't there an equal push for a wall with Canada (including the Alaska/Canada border)?

[Benton]

(02-21-2017, 06:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If you do it properly, then don't they let you hang around until it's your turn?

I'm not an immigration expert, but usually in the conversation there's something about 3-year and 10-year bans. As I understand it, you have to leave the country when the time is up unless you're green card paperwork is pending. If you overstay because you're waiting for the process to go from applied to pending to received, you can get barred for 3-years or 10-years, depending on how long you overstayed. Basically, you get barred from legally becoming a citizen for 3 or 10 years because you were waiting for someone to stamp your paperwork.

It's a system written by lawyers, which can be confusing for people who A- speak ESL, and B- aren't lawyers or can't afford to hire a lawyer to make sure you're dotting the i's and crossing t's. Which is one of the criticisms lobbed at our current immigration laws. Not only don't we enforce them very well, they indirectly prevent some people from having a realistic chance at becoming a citizen, namely those without the income to hire an attorney.

[GMDino]

(02-21-2017, 06:37 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If you do it properly, then don't they let you hang around until it's your turn?

Not anymore.

Show 'em your papers or get deported.

[*bfine32*]

Couple Questions:

What do you tell someone going through the immigration process by following established protocols; if you have no issue with folks coming in illegally and further support them being awarded Citizenship?

Should swearing allegiance to the country be a requirement to be awarded citizenship?

[Millhouse]

Interestingly Mexico in the last few years have increased their deportations of illegals coming through their southern border, but lack the resources like we have to do more. Yet never hear about them being xenophobes with latin american illegals.

Anyways I am for 'immigration' to a point. Those that want to do it legally are first in line to get citizenship. If one is here illegally then have to wait your turn while being limited on benefits from our system, like not receiving welfare checks as I have heard rare cases of. Regardless though the system up until now needs to be better for preventing illegals from crossing over while helping those already here who are working legit jobs have an easier path to becoming citizens.

Anyone that just wants to welcome all immigrants from all over the world hopefully should realize we dont have infinite jobs and resources here to accept them all. Accept what we can handle, but at there has to be a cutoff point somewhere.

p.s. Woops, Im not on the left but posted anyways.

[CKwi88]

(02-21-2017, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Couple Questions:

What do you tell someone going through the immigration process by following established protocols; if you have no issue with folks coming in illegally and further support them being awarded Citizenship?

Should swearing allegiance to the country be a requirement to be awarded citizenship?

"Welcome to America, congratulations on making it through the process, and enjoy your time here."


It should be a choice. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2017, 10:19 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: "Welcome to America, congratulations on making it through the process, and enjoy your time here."


It should be a choice. 

Well, I said some one going through the process. Ididn't say someone that has completed the process, so your congratulations may not be well received.

I'm not sure of the logic of allowing someone to abandon their birth country to become a citizen of another and not make a sworn allegiance to that country a requirement. I would think affirming to follow the Constitution and renounce loyalty to any other country would be mandated. Why do you think these things should be optional?

[CKwi88]

(02-21-2017, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, I said some one going through the process. Ididn't say someone that has completed the process, so your congratulations may not be well received.

I'm not sure of the logic of allowing someone to abandon their birth country to become a citizen of another and not make a sworn allegiance to that country a requirement. I would think affirming to follow the Constitution and renounce loyalty to any other country would be mandated. Why do you think these things should be optional?

My bad. 

"Best of luck and I hope the process goes smoothly and without hindrances, can't wait to have you here."

Mostly because I see having someone take an oath of allegiance as meaningful as the years of indoctrination that we put our children through in their formative years with the daily pledge of allegiance and singing about America and all that rah rah sis boom bah.

If someone wants to formalize their allegiance with an oath, that's fine by me. But in many ways, going through the difficulties and sacrifices usually associated with leaving your birth country and creating a life in another are usually much more indicative of their feelings towards this country than a potentially meaningless recitation of an oath, in my eyes at least. 

[*michaelsean*]

I thought they did take some sort of oath.