ISIS

[McC]

(01-23-2017, 07:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My mind was open on Trump's timeline of defeating ISIS...until he said he'd do it in 30 days.  God help me, I'm holding a man to his promises!  Egads!  I'm not saying I'll flip my lid and declare the whole thing a failure if it takes 31-1,300 days but I can't stress this enough:

Trump is the one who said 30 days...not me.  Not the lying media, not the Clintons, not a bunch of butt-hurt liberals.  Trump said this.

What really blows is that the president can say "I'll defeat ISIS in 30 days" and part of me thinks "Wow, that's great...we must really be on to something and/or have a great plan, or we are way closer than I thought!" and then I remember that Trump is the one making the promise of 30 days and realize that means we have no idea when this will happen and I'm a big dumbass for thinking he actually meant what he said.

Remember that TV show Name that Tune?  Contestants would bid back and forth to challenge each other to name said tune is less notes than the other.  
Contestant 1: I can name that tune in 7 notes!
Contestant 2: I can name it in 5 notes!
Contestant 1: I can name it 2 notes!
Contestant 2: I can name it in 1 note!
Contestant 1: Name that tune....

If you named the tune in the number of notes you said you could, you won.  If you failed to name it, the other guy won.

Trump is constantly setting himself up to be that contestant who smugly states that he can name that tune in 1 note and then when he's asked to "Name that tune" he says "Well...I'm going to name it in 7 notes actually.  What do you care?  The tune got named, right?  Actually, I named it in 1 note but the show was edited to make it look like I failed...yeah, that's it."

Trump said 30 days, so I'm asking him to name that damn tune.  Is that insane?  Yes, I fear.

Fine.  Hold him to it.  That'll show him.

[hollodero]

(01-23-2017, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: You know, I think we need something like a space race now.  It unified the country in a big way, at a time when there were tremendous divisions.  We need something we can all get behind.

seems legit, so alright then. On behalf of Austria, I challenge you to a race to Mars! With a manned spaceship. Starting now.
If you win, we will be impressed and publicly say so.

@ topic

(01-23-2017, 07:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought the 30 days was to come up with a plan to destroy them. Not actually have them destroyed in 30 days.

That seems to be true.

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2017, 07:29 PM)McC Wrote: Fine.  Hold him to it.  That'll show him.

I gotta tell you, I wasn't nuts about Obama but none of his followers ever treated me like a moron for having the slightest amount of faith he would do something he said. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-23-2017, 06:39 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Nothing wrong with setting the bar high, even if it seems unrealistic.

p.s. when it comes to Trump, I will try to objectively look at each of the things he does without my feelings towards the man himself, cause I am not a fan of him overall.

There is setting the bar high and there is "You're ***** high."  Trump's 30 day deadline is the latter. Reminds me of an idiot Brigade Commander who suggested I have my gunners read their range cards using a chem light at night while in the defense. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-23-2017, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: You know, I think we need something like a space race now.  It unified the country in a big way, at a time when there were tremendous divisions.  We need something we can all get behind.

Yes, ending our addiction to OPEC oil so we can extricate ourselves from the Middle East quagmire. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-23-2017, 07:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought the 30 days was to come up with a plan to destroy them. Not actually have them destroyed in 30 days.

(01-23-2017, 03:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Trump ordered his top Generals on Friday to eradicate ISIS in 30 days.
SoD Mattis spent his first day at the Pentagon overseeing 31 airstrikes against ISIS.
The results:
25 Strikes in Syria
Bab: 2 strikes took out ISIL units and artillery.
Raqqa: 22 strikes destroyed 12 tactical units, 9 fighting positions, 2 underground improvised bomb making factories and an ISIS HQ.
Dier ez Zour: 1 strike took out 2 IS oil wells.

Unconfirmed:
ISIS Leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi wounded in strikes and captured.

6 Strikes in Iraq
??


Personally, I hope we got him this time.

I wonder why the Generals didn't think to come up with a plan. Especially, after the election. 

[Benton]

(01-23-2017, 06:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: We'll see, but they have already admitted to changing tactics with ISIS about where they bomb.

Also, your first post in here that "Obama ordered those airstrikes was from 3-4 days before Trump was in office, and it was in Libya not Syria/Iraq. Unless you were trying to prove something that we already know?

Well, I already knew we were bombing them regularly and have been for a while. Since there was this thread about it, I didn't know if that was something we already know.



Seriously, though, as I said in that post, we're bombing them. We've been bombing them. We've had time tables for bombing them. A 30 day timetable isn't going to be any different than months worth of bombing if we're just doing what we've been doing. If military command unchanged — which so far is 99% the same — I don't see where there's any reason to think 30 drone attacks will be any different than 30 drone attacks.

And if anything, it sets us up for a huge failure. In 30 days, if ISIS isn't eliminated (or whatever word Trump used), that's another win in their recruiting when 30 days becomes 60, 90, 120. I won't knock Trump for being unable to eliminate ISIS (he can't, no more than Obama could) because one guy — even the POTUS — can't be held accountable for wiping out an ideology. Unless his plan is genocide (and it shouldn't be), then he's going to fail like every commander from every country before him.

The best thing he can do — in my opinion as an arm chair general — is keep Obama's promise: leave. Don't set a 30 day timetable for the impossible, set a realistic time frame for complete withdrawal. Let the fighting there run its course and instead of trying to decide who wins, decide who we help in terms of accepting refugees, reconstruction aide, etc.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-23-2017, 07:58 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, I already knew we were bombing them regularly and have been for a while. Since there was this thread about it, I didn't know if that was something we already know.



Seriously, though, as I said in that post, we're bombing them. We've been bombing them. We've had time tables for bombing them. A 30 day timetable isn't going to be any different than months worth of bombing if we're just doing what we've been doing. If military command unchanged — which so far is 99% the same — I don't see where there's any reason to think 30 drone attacks will be any different than 30 drone attacks.

And if anything, it sets us up for a huge failure. In 30 days, if ISIS isn't eliminated (or whatever word Trump used), that's another win in their recruiting when 30 days becomes 60, 90, 120. I won't knock Trump for being unable to eliminate ISIS (he can't, no more than Obama could) because one guy — even the POTUS — can't be held accountable for wiping out an ideology. Unless his plan is genocide (and it shouldn't be), then he's going to fail like every commander from every country before him.

The best thing he can do — in my opinion as an arm chair general — is keep Obama's promise: leave. Don't set a 30 day timetable for the impossible, set a realistic time frame for complete withdrawal. Let the fighting there run its course and instead of trying to decide who wins, decide who we help in terms of accepting refugees, reconstruction aide, etc.

Yes, but we weren't bombing the shit out of them until after Trump assumed office. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2017, 06:43 PM)McC Wrote: Being reasonable is a beautiful thing.

[*jason*]

(01-23-2017, 07:58 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, I already knew we were bombing them regularly and have been for a while. Since there was this thread about it, I didn't know if that was something we already know.



Seriously, though, as I said in that post, we're bombing them. We've been bombing them. We've had time tables for bombing them. A 30 day timetable isn't going to be any different than months worth of bombing if we're just doing what we've been doing. If military command unchanged — which so far is 99% the same — I don't see where there's any reason to think 30 drone attacks will be any different than 30 drone attacks.

And if anything, it sets us up for a huge failure. In 30 days, if ISIS isn't eliminated (or whatever word Trump used), that's another win in their recruiting when 30 days becomes 60, 90, 120. I won't knock Trump for being unable to eliminate ISIS (he can't, no more than Obama could) because one guy — even the POTUS — can't be held accountable for wiping out an ideology. Unless his plan is genocide (and it shouldn't be), then he's going to fail like every commander from every country before him.

The best thing he can do — in my opinion as an arm chair general — is keep Obama's promise: leave. Don't set a 30 day timetable for the impossible, set a realistic time frame for complete withdrawal. Let the fighting there run its course and instead of trying to decide who wins, decide who we help in terms of accepting refugees, reconstruction aide, etc.

This... 100%

How long will it take us to realize that our mere presence in the region, and the "allies" that we choose there are the root of all of our problem? The idea behind the Islamic State won't be wiped out in 30 years let alone 30 days. It appeals to disaffected young men... There are no shortage of them in the ME. Hell, there are plenty of them in this country. Their use of social media creates the perfect storm. ISIS was already soundly defeated in Iraq during the surge. Their remanents just went underground and regrouped. When the war broke out in Syria they made their next move. Defeat them there, and they will spring up in Europe, or Indonesia, or wherever...

I think McC said this country could use a unifying goal. We as a nation could strive to get our shit together with different energy sources. It's unlikely to happen, if it did, it wouldn't be successful overnight... But neither will destroying ISIS.

But yeah... We need outta there. To hell with Saudi Arabia, Israel, Jordan, and all of our other "friends" in the region.

[Rotobeast]

(01-23-2017, 07:00 PM)McC Wrote: We need something we can all get behind.

I nominate this....



And I still agree with Ray, from Generation Kill.....

*strong language*

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-23-2017, 04:56 PM)Benton Wrote: If it gets done in the next 30 days — after they've spent years with the same strategy not getting the job done — then that speaks volumes to the allegations that CentComm has been operating for years under political motivations, manipulating reports to paint a rosier picture of efforts there. instead of doing the job ordered by the commander in chief.

Too busy selling weapons to all groups over there to help in the fight against Russia.

(01-23-2017, 06:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How have the tactics changed?

Ask Mattis, he's the one that said that not me.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-24-2017, 05:22 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Too busy selling weapons to all groups over there to help in the fight against Russia.


Ask Mattis, he's the one that said that not me.

Okay, at least give a link to point me in the right direction.

I Googled Mattis changing tactics and got Nut 'N Honey. 

[Benton]

(01-23-2017, 10:39 PM)jason Wrote: I think McC said this country could use a unifying goal. We as a nation could strive to get our shit together with different energy sources. It's unlikely to happen, if it did, it wouldn't be successful overnight... But neither will destroying ISIS.

 

Agreed.

I've advocated for years to — similar to what McC said about the space race — pump money into finding the next energy source. China has already thrown their weight into that arena... and they're ahead of us. It's hard to determine how far through the propaganda, but get our engineering companies working on something that will be a future goldmine.

[CKwi88]

(01-24-2017, 06:18 PM)Benton Wrote: Agreed.

I've advocated for years to — similar to what McC said about the space race — pump money into finding the next energy source. China has already thrown their weight into that arena... and they're ahead of us. It's hard to determine how far through the propaganda, but get our engineering companies working on something that will be a future goldmine.

But this administration plans on pumping into the next energy source. It's called coal. Get with the times!

[*Nately120*]

Hey, what's the status on this?

[Belsnickel]

(03-08-2017, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hey, what's the status on this?

Good question. Has anyone heard about a definitive plan, even, to defeat ISIS? I mean, obviously, they wouldn't want to share the plan itself. But the way this administration is they would be at least bragging about its existence at this point.

[*Nately120*]

(03-08-2017, 06:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good question. Has anyone heard about a definitive plan, even, to defeat ISIS? I mean, obviously, they wouldn't want to share the plan itself. But the way this administration is they would be at least bragging about its existence at this point.

Judging by Trump's actions I'd wager his intelligence led him to believe ISIS' main base of operations is on a golf course.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/28/mattis-gives-white-house-tentative-plan-rapid-defeat-isis.html

[*bfine32*]

(03-08-2017, 06:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good question. Has anyone heard about a definitive plan, even, to defeat ISIS? I mean, obviously, they wouldn't want to share the plan itself. But the way this administration is they would be at least bragging about its existence at this point.

(03-08-2017, 06:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Judging by Trump's actions I'd wager his intelligence led him to believe ISIS' main base of operations is on a golf course.

For real, you two haven't heard about Mad Dog's plan? It was pretty big news a couple weeks back and just to keep you in the loop they are talking about repealing Obama Care.