Imagine- if you will ..

[Mickeypoo]

(02-24-2021, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong.  The root of the problem is that police are not judging individuals based on if they committed a crime.  Instead they are judging them based on the color of their skin.

Going back to my previous example.  If your girlfriend treats you like shit because other men have treated her badly do you say her behavior is acceptable and it is okay for you to suffer because the "root of the problem" is other men?

Wrong, they are judging because they have learned to be cautious and the stats show for good reason.

[Dill]

(02-24-2021, 02:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So it is basically a vicious cycle.  Police treat/profile minorities different because of the enormous amount of violent crime they commit, then the minorities are mad because the police are treating them differently because they are committing a huge amount of the crime. 

So the real question is, what is the root cause of minorities and minority communities (compared to the rest of the pop) being disproportionately responsible for violent crime and how can we fix it?

That's a good question, one I was going to ask, but you beat me to it.

I would suggest there are many immediate causes, varying from "gangsta" role models celebrated in popular culture to the availability of illegal guns to the absence of gainful employment and future prospects to availability of drugs.

But the root cause is the way, for generations, certain minority populations were segregated from or denied housing in white neighborhoods, denied equal opportunity for education and jobs, over-represented in prisons and underrepresented in politics.

[Dill]

(02-24-2021, 02:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Wrong, they are judging because they have learned to be cautious and the stats show for good reason.

There have been a number of very public incidents which don't seem to validate the "excessive caution" thesis.

One thinks here of the slaying of Tamir Rice, Elijah McClain, Andre Hill, and Daniel Prude.

[fredtoast]

(02-24-2021, 02:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Wrong, they are judging because they have learned to be cautious and the stats show for good reason.

Police should always "be cautious" with all people of all colors.  No one is talking about that.

But if we are talking about "stats" they show that men are 8 times more likely to commit murder than women.  So should police always treat you like a murderer?

[fredtoast]

(02-24-2021, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Going back to my previous example.  If your girlfriend treats you like shit because other men have treated her badly do you say her behavior is acceptable and it is okay for you to suffer because the "root of the problem" is other men?

Hey Mickey.  You forgot to answer this question.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-24-2021, 06:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Police should always "be cautious" with all people of all colors.  No one is talking about that.

But if we are talking about "stats" they show that men are 8 times more likely to commit murder than women.  So should police always treat you like a murderer?

If I have invited police interaction by doing something wrong, then ya, the officer doesn't know what I have done or what I am capable of doing.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-24-2021, 06:22 PM)Dill Wrote: There have been a number of very public incidents which don't seem to validate the "excessive caution" thesis.

One thinks here of the slaying of Tamir Rice, Elijah McClain, Andre Hill, and Daniel Prude.

All I can say is that if I am a cop in high crime area, my butt is going to be ultra cautious 24/7.  You can't even sit in your patrol car without some animal thinking it's ok to take you out.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-24-2021, 06:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hey Mickey.  You forgot to answer this question.

That's a poor analogy.  

A better one would be...........Would you be cautious to get into a relationship with a woman who has a history of being abused by men and who treated her last boyfriend badly?

I didn't forget to answer shit. I chose not to answer a stupid analogy.

[GMDino]

(02-25-2021, 09:46 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: If I have invited police interaction by doing something wrong, then ya, the officer doesn't know what I have done or what I am capable of doing.

Like walking home?

Or walking home?

Or going into their home?

(02-25-2021, 09:52 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: All I can say is that if I am a cop in high crime area, my butt is going to be ultra cautious 24/7.  You can't even sit in your patrol car without some animal thinking it's ok to take you out.

There's a difference, in my mind, in being cautious and knowing your surroundings versus think people are animals.  Maybe that's just me.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-25-2021, 10:03 AM)GMDino Wrote: Like walking home?

Or walking home?

Or going into their home?


There's a difference, in my mind, in being cautious and knowing your surroundings versus think people are animals.  Maybe that's just me.

People are animals.  We are just the most "intelligent" (arguable) animals on the planet.

There will always be isolated incidents.  It's not called a high crime area cause people just be walking home.

[GMDino]

(02-25-2021, 10:38 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: People are animals.  We are just the most "intelligent" (arguable) animals on the planet.

There will always be isolated incidents.  It's not called a high crime area cause people just be walking home.

You said:

Quote:If I have invited police interaction by doing something wrong

I suppose if you think of other people as "animals" it's easy to jump to "walking home" or "legally carrying a gun while entering your own home" as legit.

Just wanted to clarify where you stand.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-25-2021, 10:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: You said:



I suppose if you think of other people as "animals" it's easy to jump to "walking home" or "legally carrying a gun while entering your own home" as legit.

Just wanted to clarify where you stand.

I never said they were legit.  I said isolated incidents.  

We are literally all animals.  Human beings are animals, just like a dog, cat or bird.  We are just supposedly the most intelligent, which makes us dominant.  

Take dogs for example, some are very loving, some will tear your face off for no reason, some are in the middle and others are completely unpredictable.  Same with humans.

Again, there will always be isolated incidents, especially in high crime areas.  That, imo, will never change.  At least until robots patrol the areas and you take thinking/emotion/survival out of the equation.

[Dill]

(02-25-2021, 09:52 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: All I can say is that if I am a cop in high crime area, my butt is going to be ultra cautious 24/7.  You can't even sit in your patrol car without some animal thinking it's ok to take you out.

Were all of the slayings in my examples in "high crime areas"?

Especially disturbing are incidents in which people have died AFTER they have been restrained.

The police dept. of Ferguson Missouri was sued and placed in receivership because of its ongoing, systematic violation of
Black Ferguson residents' rights.  Investigations of the department determined that a large part of the problem was poor police
training, in addition to a police "culture" which tolerated a double standard when it came to civil rights.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/02/10/ferguson-demands-changes-to-agreement-reforming-police-tactics-justice-dept-criticizes-unnecessary-delay/

When we start talking about the malfeasance of entire police departments, we begin moving away from the "isolated incidents" hypothesis, which really has little explanatory power if one is trying to understand why conflicts with police lead to community protests.

I'd add that if the police in any community are going to sit people in patrol cars in "high crime areas," then they may need more training than police who don't regularly do that.

But even more importantly, other causes of crime need to be addressed to reduce or eliminate the "high crime" designation. One has little chance of doing that if one assumes that people are just animals who sometimes kill each other. Why do the animals in low crime areas choose not to kill each other, or protest police?