Immigrants as scapegoats

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 03:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I ask what your intentions were when you made the post, not later when you saw my reply.  But I fully understand why you knew I would point out the flaw in your argument.

Do you realize there's pretty much one person in the forum that consistently says your replies "proof someone wrong"?

The point was made that white male suicide rate is much higher than the rest of the population:
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Your "pointing out the flaw" by stating a bunch of inbreeds acting ignorant in NC, really doesn't point out a flaw; it just supports you're same tired stance.  

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 04:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No other population tells whitey he's a victim of another group. Every other group gets told that (often the white male) another population is to blame for them not achieving their full potential 

White males control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the wealth and power in this country, yet many of them still blame minorities for their problems.  


I don't know how you can say that white males don't have anyone to blame when I see them doing it all the time.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 05:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The point was made that white male suicide rate is much higher than the rest of the population:
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Guilt is one of the biggest motives for suicide.  These numbers just prove that white males feel guilty for the way they have treated women and minorities.  

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 05:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Examples?
I want to see what you call an attack on "legal immigration"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigration.html

WASHINGTON — President Trump embraced a proposal on Wednesday to slash legal immigration to the United States in half within a decade.

The plan would enact the most far-reaching changes to the system of legal immigration in decades and represents the president’s latest effort to stem the flow of newcomers to the United States.




For more on the argument against illegal immigrants just google "danger of multiculturalism"  You will find tons of rants about how legal immigration of people from any other culture will destroy damage the United States.  Tucker Carlson really works this argument a lot.  He does not just attack the economic impact of immigrants.  He often rants about how bad multiculturalism is.  He wants to keep America white and Christian.

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 05:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: White males control a grossly disproportionate percentage of the wealth and power in this country, yet many of them still blame minorities for their problems.  


I don't know how you can say that white males don't have anyone to blame when I see them doing it all the time.

I can only assume the point about the cognitive dissonance they suffer with their external actions and internal thoughts was totally lost on you.

(01-03-2019, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Guilt is one of the biggest motives for suicide.  These numbers just prove that white males feel guilty for the way they have treated women and minorities.  

That moment when I (and hopefully the majority of the forum) realize you have no idea what you are talking about. 

[GMDino]

(01-03-2019, 05:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you realize there's pretty much one person in the forum that consistently says your replies "proof someone wrong"?

The point was made that white male suicide rate is much higher than the rest of the population:
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

Your "pointing out the flaw" by stating a bunch of inbreeds acting ignorant in NC, really doesn't point out a flaw; it just supports you're same tired stance.  

I suppose that this would make some sort of sense if one assumes whites are killing themselves only because they "blame themselves" for...something.

And that somehow that proves that white people are blaming anyone for their problems like minorities are.

Do you have a link to a study that shows that correlation?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-03-2019, 05:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Would it not be more accurate to say minority populations have been held back by those in power...which, in this country, tends to me white people?

I'm not talking yesterday but over the course of the history of the US.

Whereas white people tend to not have to face that restriction from the get-go.  

Meanwhile white people, who hold the vast majority of "power" in the US blame minorities for all problems like crime, drugs, etc.

Would it not be true that in any country the race that is the majority does the same? If so why are you making this a US thing?
I'm not talking about yesterday either. History shows us that the majority of a race in each country behaves the same. Go to an Asian country and watch how the Asians respond to a black man walking down the street. Go to Saudi Arabia, how's that white privilege work there for you?

That restriction is because people are more comfortable with people that look similar, vs different. It takes a long time for people to break thru that psychological gap and get past someone's differences.  Whites have been the majority in the US for a long time, so it's natural for whites to have established themselves with a lot of the power over that time. Times are changing though, there is becoming plenty of people that are not white that are wealthy. So if what you say about "white privilege" is true, these people should never have been able to rise up to the ranks of the top 100 wealthiest in the US.

No, I don't blame other races for the crimes, I blame lack of educational opportunities for those poverty stricken areas that have high crime/drug rates. Many have no way to escape poverty, so they are going to do what they can to survive. Sell Drugs, steal from others. I've already tried to explain it's a mindset. People in poverty worry about "today" today. "Tomorrow" is tomorrow's problem, not todays. Middle class and up, spends what they need to today and usually plan for tomorrow because they have that luxury.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 05:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I can only assume the point about the cognitive dissonance they suffer with their external actions and internal thoughts was totally lost on you.

There is no cognitive dissonance among white males who blame minorities for their failures.  They don't hold any conflicting beliefs because they reject "white privilege". 

Cognitive dissonance requires holding two conflicting opinions at the same time.  A good example would be a military person who supports Trump even though Donald dodged the draft, mocks war heroes and gold star families, and claims he knows more than the generals.   

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no cognitive dissonance among white males who blame minorities for their failures.  They don't hold any conflicting beliefs because they reject "white privilege". 

See my last comment to you and feel free to insert it here. 

[GMDino]

(01-03-2019, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Would it not be true that in any country the race that is the majority does the same? If so why are you making this a US thing?
I'm not talking about yesterday either. History shows us that the majority of a race in each country behaves the same. Go to an Asian country and watch how the Asians respond to a black man walking down the street. Go to Saudi Arabia, how's that white privilege work there for you?

Well I'm American and have only lived in America so I am talking about America.  The country that should be better than the rest, right?

(01-03-2019, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That restriction is because people are more comfortable with people that look similar, vs different. It takes a long time for people to break thru that psychological gap and get past someone's differences.  Whites have been the majority in the US for a long time, so it's natural for whites to have established themselves with a lot of the power over that time.

Soooo....I was right?

(01-03-2019, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Times are changing though, there is becoming plenty of people that are not white that are wealthy. So if what you say about "white privilege" is true, these people should never have been able to rise up to the ranks of the top 100 wealthiest in the US.

There are exceptions to rules.  There are those who can rise above despite the odds.  And then there is the norm.

(01-03-2019, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No, I don't blame other races for the crimes

Guess I wasn't talking about you then.

(01-03-2019, 06:10 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: , I blame lack of educational opportunities for those poverty stricken areas that have high crime/drug rates. Many have no way to escape poverty, so they are going to do what they can to survive. Sell Drugs, steal from others. I've already tried to explain it's a mindset. People in poverty worry about "today" today. "Tomorrow" is tomorrow's problem, not todays. Middle class and up, spends what they need to today and usually plan for tomorrow because they have that luxury.

And a lot of those problems are caused by being a minority in a country where the majority thinks you just don't work hard enough to pull yourself up.



I have to edit to add that the "whites" that had that early power were mostly WASP's. Over time other white/European minorities were eventually received in like Italians, Irish, etc.

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 05:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: I suppose that this would make some sort of sense if one assumes whites are killing themselves only because they "blame themselves" for...something.

And that somehow that proves that white people are blaming anyone for their problems like minorities are.

Do you have a link to a study that shows that correlation?

There are hundreds of links just google white male suicide rates and read the reports that are open source.

Of course blaming themselves is not the only reason; however, it is a factor as to why the rate for white males is double the rest of the population.

My replies are simply a reply to a subjective "theory" posted by the OP and to illustrate there's a very good chance that the exact opposite of the theory is true. 

The white male has no true scapegoat and the rest of the population will be more than happy to reinforce that fact to them. 

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 06:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: See my last comment to you and feel free to insert it here. 

You mean the comment where you realized you could not come up with an argument against what I actually said so instead you just fell back on a personal insult?

Yep, this seems like another appropriate place for a comment like that from you.

[GMDino]

(01-03-2019, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There are hundreds of links just google white male suicide rates and read the reports that are open source.

Then link one.

(01-03-2019, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course blaming themselves is not the only reason; however, it is a factor as to why the rate for white males is double the rest of the population.

My replies are simply a reply to a subjective "theory" posted by the OP and to illustrate there's a very good chance that the exact opposite of the theory is true. 

So you pulled it out your hiney with no kind of research or study into sociology because you didn't like it. Or are you an expert in sociological theories also?

(01-03-2019, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The white male has no true scapegoat and the rest of the population will be more than happy to reinforce that fact to them. 

Yet whites do try to find scapegoats like Mexicans "taking their jobs" or bringing all the drugs and murdering people. So "true" or not they do blame minorities when they can.

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 06:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The white male has no true scapegoat and the rest of the population will be more than happy to reinforce that fact to them. 

Many white males believe they have a true scapegoat.  They reject "white privilege" and "male privilege" and they make sure that everyone understands their position.  And based on the last Presidential election it seems like a large majority of white males feel this way.  63% of white males voted for Trump.

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean the comment where you realized you could not come up with an argument against what I actually said so instead you just fell back on a personal insult?

Yep, this seems like another appropriate place for a comment like that from you.

It could easily be disputed and if anyone can read they can see it was even before you posted; but disputing it is fruitless, because guess who will say you were right and you proved someone wrong. 

Free free to roll with the fact that you know more about cognitive dissonance and how it relates to the suicide rate; especially with white males. "It's because they are guilty for the way they treat women and minorities". Those reading your BS and remaining silent should be ashamed. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 06:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: 1. Then link one.


2. So you pulled it out your hiney with no kind of research or study into sociology because you didn't like it.  Or are you an expert in sociological theories also?


3. Yet whites do try to find scapegoats like Mexicans "taking their jobs" or bringing all the drugs and murdering people.  So "true" or not they do blame minorities when they can.

1. Nah, just google; I assume you are capable. Once again it's "suicide rates among white males". Why no request to have the OP provide a link supporting his theory?

2. Did you just assume the OP to be an expert on the matter and didn't pull it out of his hiney; because once again you requested no link? Perhaps just you being subjectively open-minded. I'm no expert in sociological theories; however, I'd be lying if I said I have not received extensive classes/training/schooling on suicide. 

3. Of course many try to find scapegoats; I've never said otherwise. They do this to try to sooth the (wait for it) cognitive dissonance that is often times tormenting them.  

[fredtoast]

(01-03-2019, 06:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. Nah, just google; I assume you are capable. Once again it's "suicide rates among white males". Why no request to have the OP provide a link supporting his theory?

2. Did you just assume the OP to be an expert on the matter and didn't pull it out of his hiney; because once again you requested no link? Perhaps just you being subjectively open-minded. I'm no expert in sociological theories; however, I'd be lying if I said I have not received extensive classes/training/schooling on suicide. 

3. Of course many try to find scapegoats; I've never said otherwise. They do this to try to sooth the (wait for it) cognitive dissonance that is often times tormenting them.  

1.  I googled it and got the suicide rate among white males.  Did not see any claims that the rate was due to "white privilege".  But I did see one claim that it was because white people felt like they had more to lose because they used to control everything but now minorities are taking over.

2.  I did not have to ask Bels for a link because I have seen with my own eyes hundreds of examples of minorities being turned into scapegoats.  And I already know the facts.  90% of the new wealth created in this country since 1970 has gone to the wealthiest 5%.  So I know immigrants are not the problem.

3.  People who blame minorities as the scapegoats are not suffering from cognitive dissonance because they reject the concept of "white privilege".   They do not hold any conflicting beliefs.  


But if you are saying that deep in their hearts white males really do acknowledge the reality of "white privilege" and "male privilege" but just talk like it does not exist then you might have a point.  Is that what you are claiming about all the guys here who deny the existence of "white privilege" or "male privilege"?  Because "cognitive dissonance" is defined by a persons own beliefs, not what other people say.

[Belsnickel]

(01-03-2019, 04:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And you might want to check on the suicide rate for white males; which is all the other points in that post you chose not to address.

No other population tells whitey he's a victim of another group. Every other group gets told that (often the white male) another population is to blame for them not achieving their full potential 

Or, I could just continue to not care about the red herring you continue to banter on about.

(01-03-2019, 05:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Examples?
I want to see what you call an attack on "legal immigration"

(01-03-2019, 05:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigration.html

WASHINGTON — President Trump embraced a proposal on Wednesday to slash legal immigration to the United States in half within a decade.

The plan would enact the most far-reaching changes to the system of legal immigration in decades and represents the president’s latest effort to stem the flow of newcomers to the United States.




For more on the argument against illegal immigrants just google "danger of multiculturalism"  You will find tons of rants about how legal immigration of people from any other culture will destroy damage the United States.  Tucker Carlson really works this argument a lot.  He does not just attack the economic impact of immigrants.  He often rants about how bad multiculturalism is.  He wants to keep America white and Christian.

Fred covered it pretty well while I was absent. I'll throw in this link: https://www.thebalance.com/donald-trump-immigration-impact-on-economy-4151107

Reductions on refugees, turning away asylum seekers, Muslim travel ban, etc., etc., etc.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-03-2019, 05:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/politics/trump-immigration.html

WASHINGTON — President Trump embraced a proposal on Wednesday to slash legal immigration to the United States in half within a decade.

The plan would enact the most far-reaching changes to the system of legal immigration in decades and represents the president’s latest effort to stem the flow of newcomers to the United States.




For more on the argument against illegal immigrants just google "danger of multiculturalism"  You will find tons of rants about how legal immigration of people from any other culture will destroy damage the United States.  Tucker Carlson really works this argument a lot.  He does not just attack the economic impact of immigrants.  He often rants about how bad multiculturalism is.  He wants to keep America white and Christian.

Did it pass? I don't recall.
I want to see legislation in action, not fear mongering.

[*bfine32*]

(01-03-2019, 08:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Or, I could just continue to not care about the red herring you continue to banter on about.

Or you could go one supporting a theory that you've provided no links/studies about. But hey at least no one is going to ask it of you.