Immigration Changes (Green Card Rules)

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2019, 12:52 PM)Dill Wrote: "Racist"!!  Somehow.

Says the guy who, with no evidence whatsoever, questions if Trump's motives for this current policy is rooted in racism. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2019, 01:14 PM)Dill Wrote: whoa! We're not the one's making immigration policy.

Monday’s rule is an attempt to enact Mr. Trump’s priorities. It embraces people who have financial means while shunning immigrants who are struggling. That is certain to affect the flow of immigrants who have sought refuge in the United States from impoverished places in Africa, Central America and the Caribbean.

Two questions:

1. Do you think the average per capita income of all African, Central American, and Caribbean "shithole" countries is higher, lower, or about the same as the per capita average income of European countries?

2. If the average per capita income of African, C American and Caribbean countries were lower, much lower, so immigrants from those countries would arrive poorer than those from Europe and more reliant on social services (especially those seeking 'refuge'), then how, over the long term, might a "wealth test" affect immigration from THOSE countries as opposed to immigration from Europe?

If I understand you correctly, we should expect to see no change in the ratio of immigrants from southern countries to those from northern because people from non-white countries "can attain wealth too." So which group collectively started out with more wealth would not matter. Is that hat you are saying?

I don't dispute that people from poorer countries will have a harder time passing the "wealth test", but to automatically assume that mainly only white people will be able to pass the test, well, there's a word for that. 

[Dill]

(08-21-2019, 03:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't dispute that people from poorer countries will have a harder time passing the "wealth test", but to automatically assume that mainly only white people will be able to pass the test, well, there's a word for that. 

There is, perhaps, a word for assuming I said "only white people will be able to pass the test." Or several, starting with "misreading" and "projection."

My question for you was what the expected outcome of the wealth test might be over time. I.e., whether it would, over the long term, affect the ratio of white to non-white immigrants.

And I asked if you are saying there would be "no effect" simply because non-whites can "attain wealth" too.

Is there an obstacle to answering these questions?

[Belsnickel]

(08-21-2019, 03:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: There is no difference, other than in one statement I broadly said "non-white people" as opposed to "non-white people from predominatnely non-white countries." My meaning is the same: you're saying non-white immigrants are generally not able to attain or maintain a certain level of wealth.

That's not a strawman. You either believe it or you don't, but that's what you said.  

There absolutely is a difference.

(08-21-2019, 12:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So, again, you're saying that non-white people are by-and-large not going to attain or maintain higher wealth. I'm sure you have your reasons for it like saying that white nations tend to be richer, but you're still saying non-white people from predominantly non-white countries are not able to attain or maintain higher wealth. 

I fail to see the straw man in pointing out the exact thing you're saying. 

Your first statement is uses the phrase "by-and-large," which indicates the same thing as "on average." Statistically speaking, it will be a whole lot more difficult for people of color from non-WEIRD nations to pass the wealth test, which will result in a higher percentage of white immigration. Your second phrase includes a qualifier which makes the statement that unless a person is white and from a WEIRD nation they are not at all able to meet the requirements.

My statement that these policies would result in whiter immigration does not say that it would result in all-white immigration, which is what you're trying to claim I am saying, apparently.

Words have meaning, and you are absolutely creating a straw man with Dill and my statements. Neither one of us is saying this would mean that only white people would be able to immigrate to the US, now, but that it would result in a higher percentage of the immigration being white simply because of the global economic realities. Dill and I are pointing out the systemic racism that has been existent internationally for centuries and has caused predominately white, western nations to be wealthier.

[Dill]

(08-21-2019, 03:07 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Says the guy who, with no evidence whatsoever, questions if Trump's motives for this current policy is rooted in racism. 

Noting that there is a history in the US of crafting laws with racist effect which do not mention race, noting that Trump has spoken very unfavorably of  non-white immigrants from "shit hole countries," and noting that Trump's immigration laws will favor immigrants from wealthier white countries, is not questioning with "no evidence whatsoever."

To see "no evidence whatsoever" is just to disregard the evidence of Trump's words and behavior.  Perhaps out of habit.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2019, 03:24 PM)Dill Wrote: There is, perhaps, a word for assuming I said "only white people will be able to pass the test." Or several, starting with "misreading" and "projection."

My question for you was what the expected outcome of the wealth test might be over time. I.e., whether it would, over the long term, affect the ratio of white to non-white immigrants.

And I asked if you are saying there would be "no effect" simply because non-whites can "attain wealth" too.

Is there an obstacle to answering these questions?

Let me ask you a question first: is the world of 2119 going to look the same as 2019? Are the same countries going to have the same levels of wealth in 100 years as they do now? Are demographics going to change? Or is everything going to remain the same as it is now? Ok, that's more than 1 question, but is it your contention that the future will look like the present, beit racial or financial, national or global?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2019, 03:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Neither one of us is saying this would mean that only white people would be able to immigrate to the US, 

My apologies. I didn't realize I had left the word "only" in my OP. I thought I took it out.

[Dill]

(08-21-2019, 03:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Let me ask you a question first: is the world of 2119 going to look the same as 2019? Are the same countries going to have the same levels of wealth in 100 years as they do now? Are demographics going to change? Or is everything going to remain the same as it is now? Ok, that's more than 1 question, but is it your contention that the future will look like the present, beit racial or financial, national or global?

"No" to all of those.  Now answer my questions.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-21-2019, 03:58 PM)Dill Wrote: "No" to all of those.  Now answer my questions.

Fair enough.

1. Lower

2. Couldn't say as immigration is a complex issue

[Dill]

(08-21-2019, 05:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Fair enough.

1. Lower

2. Couldn't say as immigration is a complex issue

Well then let me ask you another question:

Is the US of 2119 going to look the same as 2019? Are demographics going to change? Or is everything going to remain the same as it is now?

[*Nately120*]

(08-16-2019, 01:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Is it a wealth test or a job test?  I don't know their immigration status, but I see a lot of Latinos up on roofs for 12 hours a day in the middle of summer.  I don't know what their wealth is, but I'm happy for them to receive their green card if they don't have one yet and aren't citizens.

This was the neo-con view of undocumented workers during the Bush era, but now that Trump is in office we know that the 12 hours they aren't working on the roof they are getting welfare and raping white women.

(08-21-2019, 11:52 AM)PhilHos Wrote:  

Good to know you guys think only whites can attain and maintain a high level of wealth.  

In all fairness, non-whites were doing a pretty good job of living here until we showed up and declared their living to not count as "real people" living and took over for their own good.