Impeachmen' 2: Electoral Boogaloo

[GMDino]

I was just thinking how lucky DJT is to not be able to tweet right now.  He'd just be further undermining his case and making it harder for the gqp members to spin their pre-decided votes.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 11:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: I was just thinking how lucky DJT is to not be able to tweet right now.  He'd just be further undermining his case and making it harder for the gqp members to spin their pre-decided votes.

I can't imagine that matters.  The people who are still on board are all in by this point.  Trump can do no wrong, except maybe enter into a respectful and loving committed relationship with another man.  That might be the only thing that could do him in.

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 11:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't imagine that matters.  The people who are still on board are all in by this point.  Trump can do no wrong, except maybe enter into a respectful and loving committed relationship with another man.  That might be the only thing that could do him in.

It wouldn't change votes but it would be more they would have to answer for when they vote against convicting him.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: It wouldn't change votes but it would be more they would have to answer for when they vote against convicting him.

Call me a cynic but....

Voter - Hey, you let ultra guilty Trump get away with stuff.
Republican Senator - Do you like abortion?
Voter - Ok, I'll stop complaining. 

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 12:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Call me a cynic but....

Voter - Hey, you let ultra guilty Trump get away with stuff.
Republican Senator - Do you like abortion?
Voter - Ok, I'll stop complaining. 

I'm referring to the sane portion of the electorate...

I've about given up on the hardcore republicans.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm referring to the sane portion of the electorate...

I've about given up on the hardcore republicans.

Republicans can't win if they lose the insane cultists...they're like the black vote to the democrats.  Lefties should rejoice that the right wing has such membership issues that they need to bend over backwards to accommodate the clinically insane.  Join us, and we will accommodate and validate your insane ramblings and beliefs.......until you do something criminal in which case we will declare you lone wolf nuts over which we hold no quarter.

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 12:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Republicans can't win if they lose the insane cultists...they're like the black vote to the democrats.  Lefties should rejoice that the right wing has such membership issues that they need to bend over backwards to accommodate the clinically insane.  Join us, and we will accommodate and validate your insane ramblings and beliefs.......until you do something criminal in which case we will declare you lone wolf nuts over which we hold no quarter.

I have to say I am sometimes surprised that it was the far right that fell under the spell of the conspiracies than they far left.  

Years of "don't trust your government" finally caught up to them.  Added in with a love for authoritarian rule where they make the rules of how to live in society.

[Dill]

(02-12-2021, 12:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: It wouldn't change votes but it would be more they would have to answer for when they vote against convicting him.

That's one value of going through with the impeachment.

In this case, many Senators will have TWO votes for impeachment acquittal to answer for.

Had Trump been impeached in 2020, then the Capitol farce would never have played out, not to mention the other incidents in Michigan, Arizona, and Pennsylvania.

Further, Trump's bad public behavior is not over. Indictments may be coming for tax evasion in NY and election tampering in GA, and I predict by June there will be at least one new and entirely unsuspected Trump scandal adding to the many already there. Still, for the next two years at least he is going to be a feature of Republican politics, a rallying point for "the base" shaping the '22 midterms.  During that time, Trump boosters will have to continue apologizing and equivocating for the most incompetent and flawed president in U.S. history. His base could shrink  from 35% to 30% of U.S. voters over this period.

Also, I think the Senators' acquittal votes might be capping some political careers in the sense that it may limit their potential for national office. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: I have to say I am sometimes surprised that it was the far right that fell under the spell of the conspiracies than they far left.  

Years of "don't trust your government" finally caught up to them.  Added in with a love for authoritarian rule where they make the rules of how to live in society.

Meh, that "don't trust your government" stuff lasted from 2008-2016.  The Bush era was all about the government being your protector, smarter than you, and right to reduce your freedoms to protect you.  Daddy Bush was keepin' you safe by locking you in your room at night, and you'd best be thankful.  2008-2016 it became patriotic to protest the government.  2016-2020 or even now it's been a combination of reverence for the divine rule of Trump and his battling the government FOR YOU.  Sure, it's taken a bit of a spin, but it still comes down to a distrust of one wing of the government and a love of the strong-willed white dudes who will fight fight fight fight fight the evil government for you.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:28 PM)Dill Wrote: That's one value of going through with the impeachment.

In this case, many Senators will have TWO votes for impeachment acquittal to answer for.

Had Trump been impeached in 2020, then the Capitol farce would never have played out, not to mention the other incidents in Michigan, Arizona, and Pennsylvania.

Further, Trump's bad public behavior is not over. Indictments may be coming for tax evasion in NY and election tampering in GA, and I predict by June there will be at least one new and entirely unsuspected Trump scandal adding to the many already there. Still, for the next two years at least he is going to be a feature of Republican politics, a rallying point for "the base" shaping the '22 midterms.  During that time, Trump boosters will have to continue apologizing and equivocating for the most incompetent and flawed president in U.S. history. His base could shrink  from 35% to 30% of U.S. voters over this period.

Also, I think the Senators' acquittal votes might be capping some political careers in the sense that it may limit their potential for national office. 

Meh, hopefully if/when Trump totally doesn't send another mob to rampage over the senate the republicans who are so focused on doodling and doing nothing during the trial just stay in their seats and doodle and do nothing as the mob breaks in.  Hell, I"m not sure why any of the "stop the steal" and the "this trial is a joke" republicans didn't just greet the rioters like the liberating force of patriots that they are.

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 12:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, that "don't trust your government" stuff lasted from 2008-2016.  The Bush era was all about the government being your protector, smarter than you, and right to reduce your freedoms to protect you.  Daddy Bush was keepin' you safe by locking you in your room at night, and you'd best be thankful.  2008-2016 it became patriotic to protest the government.  2016-2020 or even now it's been a combination of reverence for the divine rule of Trump and his battling the government FOR YOU.  Sure, it's taken a bit of a spin, but it still comes down to a distrust of one wing of the government and a love of the strong-willed white dudes who will fight fight fight fight fight the evil government for you.

"Government isn't the answer, it's the problem" goes back to Reagan.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a joke that goes back further than that.

The gqp keep running on "government doesn't work so put me in to prove it to you."

[Dill]

(02-12-2021, 12:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, that "don't trust your government" stuff lasted from 2008-2016.  The Bush era was all about the government being your protector, smarter than you, and right to reduce your freedoms to protect you.  Daddy Bush was keepin' you safe by locking you in your room at night, and you'd best be thankful.  2008-2016 it became patriotic to protest the government.  2016-2020 or even now it's been a combination of reverence for the divine rule of Trump and his battling the government FOR YOU.  Sure, it's taken a bit of a spin, but it still comes down to a distrust of one wing of the government and a love of the strong-willed white dudes who will fight fight fight fight fight the evil government for you.

Actually, "Don't trust your government" was a prime talking point of Fox from its start in '96. Bush 43 took up Reagan's mantra "The government is the problem," and distrust of government encouraged by the Bush regime drove the private contracting scandals which dogged both our wars in the Middle East. 

On the right, Bush's prosecution of these wars was never framed as 'government' protecting us. Rather people were asked to trust decisions and judgments of leaders and the party-appointed.

You are right about the period 2008-2016 becoming once again a time of patriotic protest against government--Democrat BIG government, and Republican "establishment" came into the Right's sights as well. People who in 2003 called anyone who opposed Bush a "traitor" were now against foreign wars and beginning to construct a "deep state" protected by "both sides."  

And you are right about 2017 on, as the Right framed Trump as the opponent of Big government--and rightly so as no president in history did more to break it. Resistance by the Deep State explained why people complained about his incompetence and unconstitutional policy goals.

So now, owing to its massive media expansion since the '80s, the Far Right is mainstream and we have almost two generations of Rightist voters voting for policy which favor our oligarchy. They have largely shifted traditional Republicans out of office

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 12:28 PM)Dill Wrote: That's one value of going through with the impeachment.

In this case, many Senators will have TWO votes for impeachment acquittal to answer for.

Had Trump been impeached in 2020, then the Capitol farce would never have played out, not to mention the other incidents in Michigan, Arizona, and Pennsylvania.

Further, Trump's bad public behavior is not over. Indictments may be coming for tax evasion in NY and election tampering in GA, and I predict by June there will be at least one new and entirely unsuspected Trump scandal adding to the many already there. Still, for the next two years at least he is going to be a feature of Republican politics, a rallying point for "the base" shaping the '22 midterms.  During that time, Trump boosters will have to continue apologizing and equivocating for the most incompetent and flawed president in U.S. history. His base could shrink  from 35% to 30% of U.S. voters over this period.

Also, I think the Senators' acquittal votes might be capping some political careers in the sense that it may limit their potential for national office. 

I agree with this, that's why I said his lack of tweeting is probably helping him.  He'd be burying himself further...and also riling up the mobs to "defend" him.

And we will see MORE "I'm not running again" from the gqp moving forward.   Problem being they are in in such secure districts they will just be replaced with the nuttier components of the party.

[Dill]

(02-12-2021, 12:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, hopefully if/when Trump totally doesn't send another mob to rampage over the senate the republicans who are so focused on doodling and doing nothing during the trial just stay in their seats and doodle and do nothing as the mob breaks in.  Hell, I"m not sure why any of the "stop the steal" and the "this trial is a joke" republicans didn't just greet the rioters like the liberating force of patriots that they are.

Lol maybe some will be primaried then, for insufficient Trump support.


"WHERE WAS MY OPPONENT WHEN THE REAL PATRIOTS WERE STORMING THE CAPITOL? 

COWERING WITH NANCY PELOSI AND THE DEMOCRATS IN A TUNNEL UNDER THE BUILDING!!" 

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: "Government isn't the answer, it's the problem" goes back to Reagan.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a joke that goes back further than that.

The gqp keep running on "government doesn't work so put me in to prove it to you."

Reagan talked a good game, that's for sure.  As long as you don't look beneath the veneer the dude was a god, I guess.

(02-12-2021, 12:52 PM)Dill Wrote: Lol maybe some will be primaried then, for insufficient Trump support.


"WHERE WAS MY OPPONENT WHEN THE REAL PATRIOTS WERE STORMING THE CAPITOL? 

COWERING WITH NANCY PELOSI AND THE DEMOCRATS IN A TUNNEL UNDER THE BUILDING!!" 

It's possible they could reframe the whole thing, but right now the protesters have to be painted as maniacal idiots who were told to be lawful and peaceful by Trump but were stupid and crazy enough to think that meant he wanted them to storm the capitol.  In order for Trump to be not guilty they have to make it clear that the mob listened to Trump and then did a complete 180.

Or they could just say "Trump is totally guilty, but I'm saying he isn't because he's a republican for now and my family is probably being surrounded by patriots this very moment."  As I said before, the GOP is the scientist that creates the monster that kills them in the 3rd reel of the movie before the monster is eventually (hopefully?) vanquished by the just and true hero.

It's almost like fiction is based upon reality, but is done so in a manner where the creator won't be labeled a political firebrand.  Now if you'll excuse me, I'm about to watch Captain Ahab get dragged to his death by Moby Dick.

[GMDino]

(02-12-2021, 12:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Reagan talked a good game, that's for sure.  As long as you don't look beneath the veneer the dude was a god, I guess.

In my lifetime Reagan and Clinton were the two best "politicians".  The knew how to work the room and get most of what they wanted.  Voters "liked" them.

Reagan was much worse for the country overall and had a longer lasting effect.  Mainly because Clinton had to work with the old gop and so everything a little more moderate...outside of some of the sentencing and prison things they did.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 12:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: In my lifetime Reagan and Clinton were the two best "politicians".  The knew how to work the room and get most of what they wanted.  Voters "liked" them.

Reagan was much worse for the country overall and had a longer lasting effect.  Mainly because Clinton had to work with the old gop and so everything a little more moderate...outside of some of the sentencing and prison things they did.

Regan made the unholy alliance with Pat Robertson and got Christianity to embrace a Hollywood playboy and toss a southern baptist in the trash.  Politics man....then Reagan destroyed unions and made union democrats into neo-cons...dude was a wizard of sorts.  We love getting dominated by strong men...oooh baby.  Ok, I'll stop.

[Dill]

(02-12-2021, 12:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's possible they could reframe the whole thing, but right now the protesters have to be painted as maniacal idiots who were told to be lawful and peaceful by Trump but were stupid and crazy enough to think that meant he wanted them to storm the capitol.  In order for Trump to be not guilty they have to make it clear that the mob listened to Trump and then did a complete 180.

This.  Well put.

Though they have to be somewhat careful in addressing the issue of "maniacal idiots," because their motivating belief--the election was LITERALLY stolen--is still held by over 50 million Republican voters. 

Last night Fox guests were asserting that the goal of the Impeachment prosecution is to paint ALL Trump supporters as rioters. That adds pressure to make the rioters appear atypical, I guess. 

But if I'm a serious Trump supporter and Big Lie believer, I have to feel a bit dissed by any Republican who scapegoats "patriots"--whose primary crime appears to be acting on the same Lie I swallowed. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2021, 01:41 PM)Dill Wrote: This.  Well put.

Though they have to be somewhat careful in addressing the issue of "maniacal idiots," because their motivating belief--the election was LITERALLY stolen--is still held by over 50 million Republican voters. 

Last night Fox guests were asserting that the goal of the Impeachment prosecution is to paint ALL Trump supporters as rioters. That adds pressure to make the rioters appear atypical, I guess. 

But if I'm a serious Trump supporter and Big Lie believer, I have to feel a bit dissed by any Republican who scapegoats "patriots"--whose primary crime appears to be acting on the same Lie I swallowed. 

Right, let's also not forget that Trump allowed the rioters to storm the capitol, was reportedly watching it like it was a sporting event, and eventually justified their actions and said he loved them before saying violence has no place and blah blah blah.

The guy is a typical villain throwing his expendable henchmen into the grinder.


Man, to listen to Trump's defense you'd think the guy was some sort of flower-power, peace-loving wimp. Hey guys, this country was stolen from you, go in peace and cuddle everyone!

[*Nately120*]

Maybe I'm the only one watching this, but it's been about 30 straight minutes of clips of democrats saying "fight" in speeches and interviews. Who knew democrats had such spines! Geez.