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This is the third time in my lifetime a President is being considered for impeachment by the House.
I was way too young to remember Nixon, but my parents have been talking about it a lot. Watching it on PBS all day every day since my mom was a stay at home mother and my dad worked the afternoon shift.
During the Clinton hearings and trial in 1998 I was married, working and we were expecting our first child. There were complications that would result in her being born premature just over a month after he was impeached so I don't remember seeing or hearing much. I had just been promoted so I wasn't in my delivery van but rather was in the showroom so I couldn't listen to the radio like I did before.
Of course now we have the social media sites, broadband internet (most of us), 24 news cycles and stations. There is going to be so much more coverage.
And leads me to a question: Several of the GOP members of the Senate have said they won't read the witness transcripts or watch the hearings because they already "know" that this entire impeachment "process" is a "sham". Does that sit OK with members of the general public?
To me, even if you are a diehard defender of Trump (certainly no one on this board  ) wouldn't you want to say that you read everything, listened to it all and looked at all the evidence before you voted against impeachment? Even someone like Graham, who wouldn't vote for impeachment if DJT committed an actual crime against his actual mother, should be smart enough to at least say he was *informed* when he made his decision...despite everyone knowing what his "decision" would be long before the hearings themselves.
Or are they so afraid of Trump that feel they have to simply stay the course of it all being a sham and witch hunt that isn't even worth their time?
Just curious what others think.
Edit to add that I'll probably add anything from the hearings to this thread rather than the Whistleblower one.
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Yes they should absolutely read it although I'm pretty sure 99% of the people in Congress have already decided what they are going to do.
Can I ask what's probably a stupid question? I say stupid because most people probably already know this. Ignoring Trump's involvement, is there anything iffy about the Biden kid getting a seat on that board?
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(11-13-2019, 11:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yes they should absolutely read it although I'm pretty sure 99% of the people in Congress have already decided what they are going to do.
Can I ask what's probably a stupid question? I say stupid because most people probably already know this. Ignoring Trump's involvement, is there anything iffy about the Biden kid getting a seat on that board?
"Iffy" in that he apparently had no experience in the field. To the best of my current knowledge no investigation found anything like the Obama admin or Joe Biden giving them anything in exchange.
That said friends putting friends on their board in exchange for the same has been going on in businesses for years. The difference being obviously that this would involve the United States government doing some shady deals. And again nothing was found.
So did he "deserve" to be on the board? To best I can ascertain, no.
I'm sure there will be an attempt by the GOP (Jordan in particular) to try THAT case during the hearings.
Just like I am sure they will use the whistleblowers name without saying they are the whistleblower. Then when they are hit with an ethics violation the name gets out there anyway which is all they care about.
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It's impossible to know exactly what's going on in any given person's head. We can only take their words, actions and non-verbal communications as keys to understanding their perspective. I really want to believe the words coming out of Republicans' mouths when they say they genuinely don't see anything impeachable here. But it's extremely difficult to believe that.
For a Senator like Graham to openly say he is going to disregard any evidence and that his mind is already made up is one of the most openly and blatantly corrupt things I've ever heard a United States politician say. If you were called for jury duty and went up and said "I just want to let you know that, regardless of what happens here, I will find the defendant innocent" there is no way in hell the juror gets approved for jury duty. This is what Graham just did, yet he cannot be dismissed from his duty because he's a Senator.
It's very clear, based on their words and actions, that these Republicans are playing to Trump's base with this outright refusal to consider anything that will occur in these public hearings. I don't think it'll really hurt their chances of being re-elected either. Among polled Trump supporters, 62% of them said they "could not think of anything that Trump could do, or fail to do, in his term as president that would make [them] disapprove of the job he is doing."
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/469058-poll-62-of-trump-supporters-say-nothing-the-president-could-do-would
That's a level of extremist loyalty that I'm not sure any Politician has ever had before. So playing to that base is as sure a bet as you could possibly have regarding re-election.
As of October 14th, 89% of Republicans still approve of Trump.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
I bet there are more recent polls, but the fact that it's still that high is all Republican Senators need to know regarding whether he should be impeached or not.
Politics are just a game to Politicians. So many of them seem to be detached from the reality of their actions. When their cards are on the table, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of politicians (from both parties) believe that, as long as they keep getting re-elected, it doesn't really matter what beliefs they have. They will play to their base and make decisions based on what will get them re-elected rather than what's best for the country.
I just wish that Congress members had term limits. Maybe then they'd be more inclined to actually change things or fix things with the power they've been given by their constituents, rather than being career politicians who simply spout platitudes and ideologies that will keep them in office, collecting tax payer and lobbyist money to sit on their hands and not actually fix anything during their time in office.
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Did Devin Nunes really just accuse Democrats of trying to obtain nude pictures of Trump from Russia?
Why would anyone want such a picture?
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(11-13-2019, 11:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Can I ask what's probably a stupid question? I say stupid because most people probably already know this. Ignoring Trump's involvement, is there anything iffy about the Biden kid getting a seat on that board?
Eh, iffy is subjective. It's not the most uncommon thing for a person to have a place on a board like that when they really have no business being there. I know one of the things people love to talk about is that these folks shouldn't benefit from the positions of their parents in high levels of government. Whether it is Biden or Trump kids. Personally, I don't care if the children of officials benefit in the private sector so long as there is no undue influence on the policies of the US. Now, is it best practice to avoid these sorts of situations so that there is no illusion of impropriety? Yup.
I do have problems with family in government. We got away from the spoils system in the late 19th century for a reason.
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(11-13-2019, 12:24 PM)hollodero Wrote: Did Devin Nunes really just accuse Democrats of trying to obtain nude pictures of Trump from Russia?
Why would anyone want such a picture?
A pair of Russian comedians "pranked" Schiff back in 2018 with promises of the pictures. Schiff told them that he would let them deal with the FBI about it after trying to get them to give specifics.
So naturally that became a right wing talking point that the Democrats were "seeking" the photos.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/report-schiff-fell-for-russian-prank-call
I don't know if he "fell" for it or if he was just being as polite and to the point as possible.
Of course it also has nothing to do with what Trump did on the phone call (or before and after) considering Ukraine.
Nunes said nothing to defend Trump but rather to attack Democrats.
Can't wait to see how he handles the witnesses. 
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Gym Jordan just got shut down. Caught in a lie.
They don't even need the whistleblower. Everything was confirmed in the summary.
So far the GOP is swinging and missing.
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(11-13-2019, 11:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yes they should absolutely read it although I'm pretty sure 99% of the people in Congress have already decided what they are going to do.
Can I ask what's probably a stupid question? I say stupid because most people probably already know this. Ignoring Trump's involvement, is there anything iffy about the Biden kid getting a seat on that board?
Not really. Kids of people with money getting jobs based off their last name or influential parents is no big secret. It happens all the time. That's why it's not what you know, but who you know.....
It's just interesting Trump and the GOP are so willing to hang their hat on this given Trumps kids and the jobs they got due to their last name. The hypocrisy is just crazy to witness in real life. But they know their supporters don't see it.
That's why you see the Trump kids slam nepotism. I mean really? I don't get it, but I've long lost faith in Trump supporters thinking rationally.
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(11-13-2019, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eh, iffy is subjective. It's not the most uncommon thing for a person to have a place on a board like that when they really have no business being there. I know one of the things people love to talk about is that these folks shouldn't benefit from the positions of their parents in high levels of government. Whether it is Biden or Trump kids. Personally, I don't care if the children of officials benefit in the private sector so long as there is no undue influence on the policies of the US. Now, is it best practice to avoid these sorts of situations so that there is no illusion of impropriety? Yup.
I do have problems with family in government. We got away from the spoils system in the late 19th century for a reason.
My dad worked for a business where the kids took it over and gave all their kids jobs even though they were completely out of their element. We laughed about it because it didn't directly affect his job but my mother always said if it would have been her that owned it she would have done the exact same and given all of us jobs.
But I totally agree with the government point.
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(11-13-2019, 01:11 PM)GMDino Wrote:
They need to call the staff member in then. This is the real thing now so witnesses need to be there themselves. I’m assuming that will happen.
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(11-13-2019, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eh, iffy is subjective. It's not the most uncommon thing for a person to have a place on a board like that when they really have no business being there. I know one of the things people love to talk about is that these folks shouldn't benefit from the positions of their parents in high levels of government. Whether it is Biden or Trump kids. Personally, I don't care if the children of officials benefit in the private sector so long as there is no undue influence on the policies of the US. Now, is it best practice to avoid these sorts of situations so that there is no illusion of impropriety? Yup.
I do have problems with family in government. We got away from the spoils system in the late 19th century for a reason.
No I understand the practice, but this is a foreign company and the VPs son, and I’m sure it could be nothing more than “Hey we have the US VP’s son on our board “.
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(11-13-2019, 01:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No I understand the practice, but this is a foreign company and the VPs son, and I’m sure it could be nothing more than “Hey we have the US VP’s son on our board “.
This is based on a lot of assumptions on my part, but I don't think that Hunter had even spoken with his father about it. Had he done so, I don't foresee him taking the position because the company had already been under investigation (or was seen as corrupt, it is my understanding that the prosecutor at the time was not investigating corruption very well) and he would have been advised to avoid the situation entirely. In fact, the investigation into the company that was threatened or did eventually happen had nothing to do with Hunter and had to do with things that had occurred prior to his taking the position on the board.
So yeah, for me it was a stupid move, but not really iffy.
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