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(12-05-2019, 09:15 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, we didn't see all career staffers. We saw a political appointee state that the White House, i.e. Trump, was using the power and authority of the office to try to benefit Trump politically. That is also what the career staffers were saying.
Also, spoiler alert, if you attempt to rob a bank, or kill someone, or anything, you are still charged with the crime even if you fail. Just because you're bad at corruption and didn't get what you want doesn't mean you didn't commit the offense. Just because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (because he released the aid after he was told of the whistleblower complaint) and decided to release the cookie before pulling his hand out doesn't mean him going "See! No cookie!" is a valid defense.
You're also not giving any credit to the fact that many of these career staffers were in a position where the official administration position was one thing and then there was a second avenue of foreign policy that was being run counter to the official US positions. The career staffers that we have seen were all conducting foreign policy that had been established through official channels, which included the White House and Congress.
The bold is a big point the Trump defenders are clinging to : The POTUS can determine foreign policy. And indeed he can, but he cannot have the official foreign policy AND a secret one that he is using to personally benefit himself.
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So I thought Trump had a good week. He did well with NATO and has probably won the idea of the 2 percent share from NATO countries. He was certainly above the fray unlike Trudeau who got caught on an open mic. And for all the experts who testified at the impeachments hearings. Karman(sp) made the biggest gaffe of the day...the internet hero of the morning was left apologizing about making a joke about Trump's kid Barron drawing a tweet from Melania, and later an apology.
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(12-05-2019, 10:15 AM)Goalpost Wrote: So I thought Trump had a good week. He did well with NATO and has probably won the idea of the 2 percent share from NATO countries. He was certainly above the fray unlike Trudeau who got caught on an open mic. And for all the experts who testified at the impeachments hearings. Karman(sp) made the biggest gaffe of the day...the internet hero of the morning was left apologizing about making a joke about Trump's kid Barron drawing a tweet from Melania, and later an apology.
Trump was shown to be a laughing stock with the other members of NATO. Then the "tough guy" ran home. I'm sure he'll have a "tough guy" tweet soon about it though.
I was going to argue that that is not a "good" week but given how the rest of them have gone for DJT it was one of the better ones.
That the right and gop is making anything out of the use of the word baron is expected and sad. That Trump himself said nothing about it but just retweeted his wife is more telling.
But the "liberal media" will get caught up in the faux "attack" on the kid and Trump and the gop will use him as a human shield to avoid discussing what Trump did.
Status quo.
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(12-04-2019, 11:57 PM)hollodero Wrote: I thought it fitting to let some educated non-politicians weigh in. It contradicts the baseless political witch hunt narrative quite effectifely.
You think so? As I understand it 4 were invited 3 by Dems 1 by GOP. Guess how they viewed POTUS actions?
Surprisingly the 3 invited by the Dems said "impeachable" the 1 invited by the GOP said "non-impeachable". I also heard one felt compelled to drag POTUS' young son into the mix.
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(12-05-2019, 10:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: That the right and gop is making anything out of the use of the word baron is expected and sad. That Trump himself said nothing about it but just retweeted his wife is more telling.
But the "liberal media" will get caught up in the faux "attack" on the kid and Trump and the gop will use him as a human shield to avoid discussing what Trump did.
Status quo.
(12-05-2019, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You think so? As I understand it 4 were invited 3 by Dems 1 by GOP. Guess how they viewed POTUS actions?
Surprisingly the 3 invited by the Dems said "impeachable" the 1 invited by the GOP said "non-impeachable". I also heard one felt compelled to drag POTUS' young son into the mix.
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(12-05-2019, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You think so? As I understand it 4 were invited 3 by Dems 1 by GOP. Guess how they viewed POTUS actions?
Surprisingly the 3 invited by the Dems said "impeachable" the 1 invited by the GOP said "non-impeachable". I also heard one felt compelled to drag POTUS' young son into the mix.
Ehhh, not so much. I listened to him talking on NPR this morning. It was interesting how exasperated he was with everyone. The message being portrayed in the media, including what the NPR interviewer was trying to attribute to him, was that what Trump did was not impeachable. His argument is very narrow, though, and that is that he is against the idea of obstruction and bribery being in the impeachment articles. He said that trying to claim obstruction just because Trump decided to take Congress to court isn't enough. He argued that Congress is rushing things and should let things play out through the courts because the case right now is weak and there is still a lot that could be learned.
I felt so bad for this dude because he sounded so frustrated with people trying to misrepresent his position.
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So I read the quote mentioning Barron. I don't understand the big deal.
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(12-05-2019, 11:15 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So I read the quote mentioning Barron. I don't understand the big deal.
Exactly.
More gop noise. That's all.
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(12-05-2019, 11:15 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So I read the quote mentioning Barron. I don't understand the big deal.
Some feel there's no need to make young children a part of this circus. FLOTUS seemed to not be pleased; can we tell her it's nothing?
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(12-05-2019, 11:42 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Some feel there's no need to make young children a part of this circus. FLOTUS seemed to not be pleased; can we tell her it's nothing?
Everyone's entitled to their point of view on this one. If she was unhappy then she was unhappy. I personally don't care. The comment was, at least when I read it, more about Donald than it was about Barron as it spoke to his mentality more than anything. But that's just my opinion.
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Melania demanding children be left out of politics has broken the net.
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(12-05-2019, 12:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: Melania demanding children be left out of politics has broken the net.
#bebestmyass
The #TrumpIsALaughingStock one is going pretty well, now, too after Biden's ad came out. That whole "open mic" moment from Trudeau doesn't actually look very good for Trump.
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(12-05-2019, 06:57 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Totally disagree. This is what I said 3 years ago, and was mocked for it. Foreign policy is run by career staffers - and when you think about it, totally makes perfect sense. I couldn't have made a better argument for that than these hearings proved. Again, common sense. But the "personal gain" is actually unproven and unverified. But what we got was a parade of career staffers who felt threatened by what they perceived as a new direction from the POTUS....a new perceived direction that proved to be imagined.
It was blatantly clear again and again that the major fault was Trump didn't follow the lead of the career staffers. And - spolier alert - it didn't really matter and he actually did eventually fall in line. I've made this point many times and I don't know how it's even still a debate. It was draw dropping (and vindication) when it was basically shown, without contest, that career staffers - and not the POTUS - run foreign policy. It was subtle, and flew over the heads of most.
The real power is in Congress. Trump erased everything Obama did in 12 months, except ACA (which was a legislative act). Trump's foreign policy actions/accomplishments - for all the fanfare - have, much like Obama's, amounted to nothing. Trivial and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah, it was really subtle because it only exists in your mind.
Unless you believe career staffers were behind the TPP withdrawal, the travel ban, Syrian missile strikes, NAFTA re-worked to USMCA, DACA, withdrawal from the Paris Climate Accord, the Qatar crisis, China trade war and additional tariffs directed at Canada, relations with Cuba, Israel, Iran, North Korea, Russia, NATO, the UN, G7, and G20, withdrawal of US forces from northern Syria and abandoning the Kurds, withdrawal from the Human Rights Council, withdrawal from Iran nuclear deal, etcetera. These are all foreign policy issues Trump and his staff have directed to the "career staffers," not the other way around.
In other news, Privates don't dictate Army policy to the Secretary of the Army and delivery men don't dictate Amazon's corporate policy to Jeff Bezos any more than "career staffers" dictate foreign policy to the POTUS.
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Trump demands they impeach him quickly!
Trump can't believe they are going to impeach him quickly!
Just over two hours apart.
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(12-05-2019, 12:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump demands they impeach him quickly!
Trump can't believe they are going to impeach him quickly!
Less than two hours apart.
Trump: Impeach me already!
Pelosi: Ok, here it comes.
Trump: I can't believe you're impeaching me!
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The republican lawyer from yesterday argued in favor of impeaching Clinton and also in favor of impeaching Obama.
This was his argument for impeaching Obama in 2014:
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(12-05-2019, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You think so? As I understand it 4 were invited 3 by Dems 1 by GOP. Guess how they viewed POTUS actions?
Yeah I don't know why that is. My best guess would be that it's not that easy to find legal experts that throw their name and reputation behind a "this is not impeachable" stance.
The one GOP guy did not exonerate Trump at all, he basically just argued to take it slower.
(12-05-2019, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Surprisingly the 3 invited by the Dems said "impeachable" the 1 invited by the GOP said "non-impeachable". I also heard one felt compelled to drag POTUS' young son into the mix.
On my god. She used his name, an information already publicly available (she didn't exactly out him), for a play of words to make a point. She did not diminish him, she did not drag him into it in any kind, nothing about her words are designed to hurt any feelings. This outrage is so awfully artificial and it's actually painful how eagerly you jump on it.
Meanwhile, Trump called Schiff “a maniac, a deranged human being. I think he grew up with a complex for lots of reasons that are obvious. I think he’s a very sick man, and he lies.” - but you have nothing to say about that at all. But go for that witness' throat in full force, for a piece of nothing she even apologized for. This "attack the Dems at every turn possible and be an advocate for the GOP at every turn possible" is getting really old.
And it annoys me since you usually storm in as a self-declared beacon of reason and objectivity, a grown-up amongst children and a honest broker - and then make distorted, ultrapartisan points like a FOX host.
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