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Schiff might be smarter than most.
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(01-30-2020, 10:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: As an aside: The "pastors" that support Trump seem rather unchristian. The lawyers seem to not want to actually follow laws. Pam Bondi get paid by a foreign country for something she has no experience in and she is on the floor of the Senate arguing for the POTUS in a case where he claims to have wanted to investigate the "corruption" of one person.
In all seriousness, while I try and try to keep an open mind about Republicans, are they really buying all of this?
Can it only be the ones that are in the deepest that I keep seeing on television and the internet? My friends who post the same lies that Trump just told?
Is the entire republican party becoming a lost cause due to the Trump cult?
Some believe that he's completely honest and it's the media and the deep state telling lies. They've admitted as much here. Others just care about conservative judges and lower taxes.
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With the defense is refusing to accurately answer questions from the moderate Republicans, I hope those 3 don't fold when it comes time to voting for witnesses...
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(01-30-2020, 10:31 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote:
With the defense is refusing to accurately answer questions from the moderate Republicans, I hope those 3 don't fold when it comes time to voting for witnesses...
Gonna fold like a house of cards and they say they had "concerns" but gosh darn it the prosecution just didn't convince them.
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(01-30-2020, 10:31 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: With the defense is refusing to accurately answer questions from the moderate Republicans, I hope those 3 don't fold when it comes time to voting for witnesses...
(01-30-2020, 10:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: Gonna fold like a house of cards and they say they had "concerns" but gosh darn it the prosecution just didn't convince them.
Pretty much. We know that Trump is going to get the acquittal; there is zero chance of him being removed from office. But if he is acquitted after hearing what would presumably be damning testimony from relevant witnesses it would be a much worse look on the GOP. The moderate GOP Senators still have to think about their colleagues because without a majority, they hold less power. So the political calculus isn't just about their own re-election (because let's be honest, none of them have many scruples left at this point) it is also about the re-election of these other Senators.
The likelihood of four defections isn't high.
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(01-30-2020, 10:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Pretty much. We know that Trump is going to get the acquittal; there is zero chance of him being removed from office. But if he is acquitted after hearing what would presumably be damning testimony from relevant witnesses it would be a much worse look on the GOP. The moderate GOP Senators still have to think about their colleagues because without a majority, they hold less power. So the political calculus isn't just about their own re-election (because let's be honest, none of them have many scruples left at this point) it is also about the re-election of these other Senators.
The likelihood of four defections isn't high.
That's four if no Dems switch which isn't a lock.
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(01-30-2020, 10:53 AM)michaelsean Wrote: That's four if no Dems switch which isn't a lock.
True enough. Manchin could defect which would be rough. I can see Manchin defecting and maybe Collins and Murkowski from the Republicans. Romney is less likely, but I could see it.
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I'm sure Daddy isn't going to use the long leash he'll be handed with an witnessless acquittal for nefarious means.
Get ready for some incredible russian interference in this campaign.
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They really believe people are this dumb? Or do they think they can just lie and enough people won't care that it won't matter?
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(01-30-2020, 12:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: They really believe people are this dumb? Or do they think they can just lie and enough people won't care that it won't matter?
How many times does this sort of thing, where someone says "the media is mischaracterizing my statements" and the recording shows they are full of shit, have to happen before we realize that the media isn't as nefarious as people like to believe and that Trump & Co. are that nefarious?
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(01-30-2020, 12:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How many times does this sort of thing, where someone says "the media is mischaracterizing my statements" and the recording shows they are full of shit, have to happen before we realize that the media isn't as nefarious as people like to believe and that Trump & Co. are that nefarious?
I'm starting to think that Trump of Cult will never realize it. And that is scary.
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(01-30-2020, 12:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How many times does this sort of thing, where someone says "the media is mischaracterizing my statements" and the recording shows they are full of shit, have to happen before we realize that the media isn't as nefarious as people like to believe and that Trump & Co. are that nefarious?
I said it in another thread, this media bias/ fake news narrative is just a modern way of explaining away when people think differently than you. The issue with the internet is it has given people the false belief that they can self educate themselves into experts on any subject in a few clicks. People now believe by a quick google search, and a couple clicks of websites who already agree with their position, they can "prove" anything they believe. It is this phenomenon that has exacerbated the issues we see with hyper partisan politics as they are now so convinced they are right that they have no interest in even entertaining anything but their view of reality. The internet has killed empathy because the narratives always paint the other position as one that is out to destroy whatever it is you value.
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https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/el-chapo-outraged-that-his-trial-included-witnesses
Quote:FLORENCE, COLORADO (The Borowitz Report)—The convicted drug lord known as El Chapo said on Thursday that he was “outraged” his 2019 trial had included witnesses. He also revealed that he was demanding a new trial without them.
Speaking from ADX Florence, a maximum-security facility in Colorado, the former drug kingpin complained that his trial would have resulted in a speedy acquittal had it not been for the irritating presence of witnesses.
“If I had to point to one reason why I was convicted of all of those crimes, it would have to be witnesses,” he said. “Once the decision was made to include witnesses, things really went downhill for me.”
El Chapo said that, at the time of his trial, he had been totally unaware that it was possible to have a trial without any witnesses at all.
“I didn’t know that was a thing,” he said. “If someone had told me that you could have a witness-free trial, that’s the route I would have gone, for sure.”
The former criminal mastermind said that he was now actively seeking a new trial without witnesses because, in his opinion, “witnesses ruin everything.”
“For the good of the country, it’s time to move on,” he said.
Note: this is satire, but this does raise some interesting questions.
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(01-30-2020, 12:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: How many times does this sort of thing, where someone says "the media is mischaracterizing my statements" and the recording shows they are full of shit, have to happen before we realize that the media isn't as nefarious as people like to believe and that Trump & Co. are that nefarious?
This will never happen.
Bear in mind. You only say "nefarious" and bad words like that because the media you consume tells you to.
And you only have your views on Trump because the media you consume tells you to hate Trump.
Generously, the media is to blame for your irrationality, not you. But the logic applies in all cases. And there's nothing that can jar it.
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(01-30-2020, 01:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/el-chapo-outraged-that-his-trial-included-witnesses
Note: this is satire, but this does raise some interesting questions.
What questions does it raise? If Trump is criminally charged and a trial is held this way then I guess we could ask some questions.
I would allow witnesses that testified during the impeachment. I think that's how it was done with Clinton, and they don't have to worry about something unexpected.
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I don't have twitter, but I feel like I do.
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(01-30-2020, 02:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What questions does it raise? If Trump is criminally charged and a trial is held this way then I guess we could ask some questions.
I would allow witnesses that testified during the impeachment. I think that's how it was done with Clinton, and they don't have to worry about something unexpected.
I don't think this is the original tweet I saw, but it has the same point:
Quote:As I understand it the GOP argument is:
Can't indict a sitting president.
Can't have a crime without an indictment
Can't impeach without a crime.
So, can't impeach the President.
See the problem? If both are true, the President is above the law.
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