Impressed by Richard Sherman

[BmorePat87]

(09-15-2015, 12:19 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: But isn't that really an excuse for decades of failed affirmative action?  At what point do we start to question whether it's simple correlation and not causation? 

Not to mention the entire concept of institutional racism is essentially based off a perception of unequal outcomes, which is not the same as saying unequal opportunity or equal ability.

I don't know if I really believe in the concept of affirmative action. I get the benefits of trying to get minorities more involved in certain fields and included in school, but at the expense of others who may be more qualified it certainly isn't right. I don't know if that really has much to do with what I was saying, though.

We have statistics that show that white people make up 70% of those arrested by 40% of the prison population. Black people are also 40% of the prison population, but only 28% of those arrested. The average sentence for violent crimes is 1 year longer for black people. White people are more likely to get probation. Black kids are 7 times more likely than white kids to be sentenced to adult prison. Most homicide victims are black but most people on death row are there for killing white people. White people and black people use pot at near identical rates, but black people are 2 to 3 times more likely to be arrested for possession. 

I don't necessarily think it's a stretch to say unequal outcome exists. I agree that equality of ability is not a real thing. This isn't Harrison Bergeron. Equality of opportunity is certainly a goal and, at this point, it's probably more of an economic thing than racial thing in most places. The one argument you can make is that most of these differences have more to do with socioeconomic status. 

[GMDino]

[JustWinBaby]

(09-15-2015, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The big problem is how to tell when racism actually plays a part in a decision.

Ding ding ding!  This is actually unintentionally correct and pertinent.  Above is precisely the point I was making - we don't know it plays a part, even in the rare instances where there's evidence of real rather than imagined racism. But it's just assumed, with no real evidence to back it up.

We're led to believe that "insitutional racism" is the rule, rather than the exception, keeping minorities down. Yet the last 20-30 years grievances have been redressed and every advantage given to minorities, from college to preferential hiring and promotion (and many companies actively recognizing the value of diversity and seeking out qualified candidates).

"Insitutional racism" is another dog whistle to continue (and expand) failed affirmative action programs.

LMFAO...stormfront and chimpout? Yeah, that really reflects mainstream reality. A couple of racist idiots proves rampant institutional racism. Ummkay.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-15-2015, 11:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Equality of opportunity is certainly a goal and, at this point, it's probably more of an economic thing than racial thing in most places. The one argument you can make is that most of these differences have more to do with socioeconomic status. 

Absolutely.  And to that point, the primary "institutional" problem here is marriage and family.

Diversity is definitely worth something intangible, but race is only one of many factors in diversity.

[GMDino]

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/9/16/9340851/nfl-richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-video-black-lives-matter

Quote:Richard Sherman addressed the media about Black Lives Matter and an article he didn't write

"Before we get started, I'm gonna address the -- because there was some article written. You know, you guys have seen it. Talking about King Noble and all this. I did not write that article. A lot of people had sent it to me over the weekend, but I thought this would be the best place to address it. There were some points in that article, or in that post, that were relevant and I could agree with. But there were also some obviously ignorant points in there. I don't think any time's a time to call out for an all-out war against police or any race of people. I thought that was an ignorant statement. But as a black man, I do understand that black lives matter. You know, I stand for that, I believe in that wholeheartedly.

But I also think that there's a way to go about things, and there's a way to do things. And I think the issue at hand needs to be addressed internally, and before we move on, because from personal experience, you know, you have living in the hood, living in the inner city, you deal with things, you deal with people dying. Dealt with a best friend getting killed ... it was two 35-year-old black men. Wasn't no police officer involved, wasn't anybody else involved, and I didn't hear anybody shouting "black lives matter" then ... and I think that's the point we need to get to is that we need to deal with our own internal issues before we move forward and start pointing fingers and start attacking other people. We need to solidify ourselves as people and deal with our issues, because I think as long as we have black-on-black crime and, you know, one black man killing another ... if black lives matter, then it should matter all the time. You should never let somebody get killed -- that's somebody's son, that's somebody's brother, that's somebody's friend. So you should always keep that in mind.

And there's a lot of dealings with police officers right now, I don't think all cops are bad. You know, I think there's some great cops out there, who do everything in their power to uphold the badge and uphold the honor and protect the people in society. But there are bad cops, and I think that also needs to be addressed. I think the police officers we have right now -- you know, some of it is being brought to light, because of video cameras, everybody has a camera phone. But these are things a lot of us have dealt with our whole lives. And I think right now is a perfect time to deal with it. The climate we're in ... everybody's being more accepting, you know, so I think the ignorance should stop. I think people realize that, at the end of the day, we're all human beings. So, you know, before we're black, white, Asian, Polynesian, Latino -- we're humans. So, it's up to us to stop it. Thank you."

[Rotobeast]

(09-16-2015, 06:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/9/16/9340851/nfl-richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-video-black-lives-matter

Even more respect gained.

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2015, 12:14 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Ding ding ding!  This is actually unintentionally correct and pertinent.  Above is precisely the point I was making - we don't know it plays a part, even in the rare instances where there's evidence of real rather than imagined racism.  But it's just assumed, with no real evidence to back it up.

We're led to believe that "insitutional racism" is the rule, rather than the exception, keeping minorities down. Yet the last 20-30 years grievances have been redressed and every advantage given to minorities, from college to preferential hiring and promotion (and many companies actively recognizing the value of diversity and seeking out qualified candidates).

"Insitutional racism" is another dog whistle to continue (and expand) failed affirmative action programs.

LMFAO...stormfront and chimpout?  Yeah, that really reflects mainstream reality.  A couple of racist idiots proves rampant institutional racism.  Ummkay.

I can't even follow your argument anymore.

We DO have proof of institutional racism today.  It has not been eliminated like you claim.

And we DO have continuing unequal outcomes.

It is ridiculous to try and claim that the ONLY time there is racism is when there is absolute 100% proof.  It is the type of thing that people do not admit in public.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-15-2015, 04:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes.  "suppress blacks".

I'm sure one of the Obamas is behind it.

BLM has no interest in helping blacks. If your too naive to see that then I don't know what to tell you.

[fredtoast]

(09-16-2015, 12:14 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: LMFAO...stormfront and chimpout?  Yeah, that really reflects mainstream reality.  A couple of racist idiots proves rampant institutional racism.  Ummkay.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/where-white-supremacists-breed-online.html


According to the SPLC, Stormfront’s membership has gone from 5,000 in January 2002 to 286,000 this year.


 In 1999, four years after the site was created, a regular user named Buford Furrow drove from his parents’ house in Tacoma, Washington to Los Angeles. He shot and injured an elderly woman, a teenager girl and three children at a Jewish day care center before shooting and killing a Filipino-American postal worker.  Furrow plead guilty to murder and several hate crime charges and was sentenced to 110 years in prison on top of two life sentences. The following year, 34-year-old Stormfront user Richard Baumhammers went on a racially-motivated shooting spree in Pittsburgh, killing six people, including his 63-year-old Jewish next door neighbor; and painting red swastikas on the outside of a local synagogue and shooting out its windows. In 2002, Ian Bishop, a 14-year-old member of the “Stormfront Youth,” bludgeoned his older brother to death with a hammer, reportedly because he thought he was gay. Bishop was found guilty of third-degree murder and sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison.

This was just the beginning. The deadliest attacks by Stormfront users wouldn’t take place until after the first black president of the U.S. was inaugurated in 2009. That year, Richard Poplawski killed three Pittsburgh police officers. In 2011, Anders Behring Breivik set off a truck bomb in front of a government building in Oslo, killing eight, and then shot and killed 69 others, mostly teenagers, at a summer camp on Utoya Island. In May 2012, Jason Todd Ready killed four people—his estranged girlfriend, her daughter, her 15-month-old granddaughter, and her fiancé—before killing himself. That same month, a Canadian man named Eric Clinton Kirk Newman, also known as Luca Rocco Magnotta, was accused of torturing and dismembering  a Chinese immigrant; three months later, Wade Michael Page shot and killed six people at a Sikh temple before killing himself during a shootout with police.

All of these men, the SPLC says, were active Stormfront users.

[fredtoast]

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/03/11/most-violently-racist-internet-content-isnt-stormfront-or-vnn-anymore

The world of online hate, long dominated by website forums like Stormfront and its smaller neo-Nazi rival Vanguard News Network (VNN), has found a new — and wildly popular — home on the Internet. Reddit boasts the 9th highest Alexa Internet traffic ranking in the United States and the 36th worldwide. Many of Reddit’s racist subreddits are among its most popular.

Reddit increasingly is providing a home for anti-black racists — and some of the most virulent and violent propaganda around. In November 2013, a hyper-racist subreddit called “GreatApes” was formed. . . . GreatApes was wildly popular and grew quickly, expanding into a much larger Reddit network called “the Chimpire,”. . . Within a year, the Chimpire network had grown to include 46 active subreddits spanning an alarming range of racist topics, including “Teenapers,” “ApeWrangling,” “Detoilet,” and “Chicongo,”

Then, last November, Reddit’s most racist community evolved once again, adding the subreddit called CoonTown in the aftermath of a dispute between several top moderators at GreatApes. In just four days, CoonTown had reached 1,000 subscribers. And its popularity continues to grow.

According to Reddit Metrics, as of Jan. 6, there were 552,829 subreddits. CoonTown, with its 3,287 subscribers, ranked 6,279th, placing it in the top 2% of subreddits. It is the 680th fastest-growing subreddit on the site despite — or because of — violently racist material.

Violence, is very much there, including the horrific content found on other Chimpire subreddits like “WatchNiggersDie” — content which is rarely, if ever, matched on forums like Stormfront and VNN, which worry about being shut down or driving off potential allies.

[Rotobeast]

(09-17-2015, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/03/11/most-violently-racist-internet-content-isnt-stormfront-or-vnn-anymore

The world of online hate, long dominated by website forums like Stormfront and its smaller neo-Nazi rival Vanguard News Network (VNN), has found a new — and wildly popular — home on the Internet. Reddit boasts the 9th highest Alexa Internet traffic ranking in the United States and the 36th worldwide. Many of Reddit’s racist subreddits are among its most popular.

Reddit increasingly is providing a home for anti-black racists — and some of the most virulent and violent propaganda around. In November 2013, a hyper-racist subreddit called “GreatApes” was formed.  .  .  .  GreatApes was wildly popular and grew quickly, expanding into a much larger Reddit network called “the Chimpire,”.  .  .    Within a year, the Chimpire network had grown to include 46 active subreddits spanning an alarming range of racist topics, including “Teenapers,” “ApeWrangling,” “Detoilet,” and “Chicongo,”

Then, last November, Reddit’s most racist community evolved once again, adding the subreddit called CoonTown in the aftermath of a dispute between several top moderators at GreatApes. In just four days, CoonTown had reached 1,000 subscribers. And its popularity continues to grow.

According to Reddit Metrics, as of Jan. 6, there were 552,829 subreddits. CoonTown, with its 3,287 subscribers, ranked 6,279th, placing it in the top 2% of subreddits. It is the 680th fastest-growing subreddit on the site despite — or because of — violently racist material.

Violence, is very much there, including the horrific content found on other Chimpire subreddits like “WatchNiggersDie” — content which is rarely, if ever, matched on forums like Stormfront and VNN, which worry about being shut down or driving off potential allies.

And let us not forget all the videos of beating up white boys on http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/

There is bound to be scum of every color.
What is unfortunate is that some people choose to celebrate their actions.

[GMDino]

(09-17-2015, 01:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: BLM has no interest in helping blacks.   If your too naive to see that then I don't know what to tell you.

Lucy if you told me the sky was blue I'd assume you had glasses with red lenses on.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-17-2015, 02:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: Lucy if you told me the sky was blue I'd assume you had glasses with red lenses on.

Then by all means explain how BLM is helping blacks?

By shutting down political speeches? Helping in riots? Yup they are really addressing the issues of blacks today.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-17-2015, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We DO have proof of institutional racism today.  It has not been eliminated like you claim.

We have anecdotal examples that are not remotely proof of widespread institutional racism to suggest it is an overwhelming problem, much like a few bad cops are not examples of widespread issues in policing. I didn't say institutional racism was dead, I said it's a dog whistle, and just like a good lapdog you misunderstood the point and jumped all over a strawman.

And in most cases, when you dig deeper you find extenuating circumstances that may or may not be correlated with racism....but the default assumption is that it's racism.  The old "you can't prove to me it's not, so I don't have to prove it is".

I don't claim institutional racism has been eliminated - there will always be bigots and sometimes those bigots will become decision makers, but that is not the same as insitutional bigotry.  And the point remains it's not enough of a problem to be anything other than an excuse.

[JustWinBaby]

(09-17-2015, 01:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/where-white-supremacists-breed-online.html


According to the SPLC, Stormfront’s membership has gone from 5,000 in January 2002 to 286,000 this year.

LMFAO, counselor.  286,000 people!  That's almost 0.1% of the population!  Hey, since 0.5% of the country is uber wealthy, these must be the same people and evidence of insitutional racism!

Like I said, I've NEVER heard about that organization anywhere, from anyone, until you brought it up....either because you yourself are a member or were clued-in by some race-baiting article from the echo chamber.  Either that or like a good liberal you spend your time scouring the interwebz for things to offend you.

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 07:55 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Like I said, I've NEVER heard about that organization anywhere, from anyone, until you brought it up....either because you yourself are a member or were clued-in by some race-baiting article from the echo chamber.  Either that or like a good liberal you spend your time scouring the interwebz for things to offend you.

Way to prove my point.  Brag about being ignorant on a topic then try to insult someone who knows more than you about it.


Keep your head deep in the sand.  That is the only way to deny racism is still a problem.

"Since there are not a million people openly bragging about being racists then it can't possibly be a problem!  How could a white guy who never studies the issue of racism not know all about it?"