Initial Reactions To New Coaches From A Vet

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2019, 11:30 AM)Wyche Wrote: I didn't call for it, the defensive coordinator did.

EVERYONE here was calling for it.  All I hear is how Marvin "never held players accountable". 

(05-21-2019, 11:30 AM)Wyche Wrote:  What caused them to play like shit to start with?  What motivated them to perform better afterward?

I don't know, and you don't either.  All I know is that we turned it around despite "no one being held accountable" according to many here.

The fact is that none of the people who claim Marvin never held any one accountable has any idea what was said in film rooms or on practice fields.  Instead they just went by the fact that marvin didn't bench players every time they missed up.  But the fact is that it is really rare for an NFL coach to bench a player and give playing time to another who has not earned it.  This is just something fans like to make up to rip on Marvin. 

[THE PISTONS]

(05-21-2019, 12:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And yet so few of us wanted Jim Harbaugh here!

People want 'accountability' until a player they like isn't playing. Then the coach is taking out a petty vendetta!

But, if it's a player they don't like...Accountability!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-21-2019, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know, and you don't either. 

So it goes back to the part of my post you excluded earlier:

"Maybe Guenther calling them out to the media had something to do with it, maybe not. SOMETHING lit a fire under them.......I don't think it was clapping and yelling "Let's go"."

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-21-2019, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: EVERYONE here was calling for it.  

I'd agree a lot of people agreed with Guenther on that one.....most notably Rey Maualuga.  How'd he play the next season?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 04:26 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: So it goes back to the part of my post you excluded earlier:

"Maybe Guenther calling them out to the media had something to do with it, maybe not. SOMETHING lit a fire under them.......I don't think it was clapping and yelling "Let's go"."

Common sense, i like.

[Earendil]

(05-21-2019, 11:34 AM)Nately120 Wrote: But this all comes down to Mike Brown and his family running the show in Cincy.  If the players got bummed out by Marvin, why didn't Marvin and eventually ZT get bummed out by Mike Brown?  Crapola rolls downhill, no?

Since we are using work analogies, how often do idealistic new employees join a company and then get beaten into submission by a nepotistically-driven teflon management system? 

Maybe Marvin did, but that only reinforces the point I was making in response to NFL players not needing to be motivated.  Most human beings need to be motivated, that's just a fact of life.  Some of us are able to do that ourselves. But even then, as I said, negative energy and non-energy is contagious.

[NKURyan]

Anybody want to provide actual examples of Marvin holding a player accountable for his play on the field the last few years, or do you just want to keep playing pretend?

"John Ross!" Oh, you mean the same John Ross that was on the field all the time last year? Wow, he really showed him.

Did he hold Shaun Williams accountable for dirty play that got him kicked out of a game last year? Did he hold Vontaze Burfict accountable for his poor play and stacks of penalties? Did he hold the right side of the offensive line accountable for the poor play that people constantly bring up around here? Did he hold Billy Price accountable for his poor play when his backup proved to be playing better (I mean, John Ross got benched for his rookie mistakes, seems kind of hypocritical)?

Hell, did he ever hold Adam Jones, Vontaze Burfict, or Jeremy Hill accountable for costing them the franchise's first playoff game in 2 decades?

...and I've always been a Marvin supporter, too! But come on, if you don't think this is a weakness of his you're being purposefully blind. Do you want to argue that he was good at clock management next? A guy can still be a pretty good coach even if they have flaws (see: Andy Reid).

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2019, 04:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: So it goes back to the part of my post you excluded earlier:

"Maybe Guenther calling them out to the media had something to do with it, maybe not.  SOMETHING lit a fire under them.......I don't think it was clapping and yelling "Let's go"."

I can't even tell when you are serious.

Every coach in the league claps and yells "Let's go" but somehow it is stupid for Marvin.

Every coach also works with the team all week long but some people here don't think the head coach does anything but show up on Sunday.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 04:58 PM)Earendil Wrote: Maybe Marvin did, but that only reinforces the point I was making in response to NFL players not needing to be motivated.  Most human beings need to be motivated, that's just a fact of life.  Some of us are able to do that ourselves. But even then, as I said, negative energy and non-energy is contagious.

All very true.

(05-21-2019, 05:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Anybody want to provide actual examples of Marvin holding a player accountable for his play on the field the last few years, or do you just want to keep playing pretend?

"John Ross!" Oh, you mean the same John Ross that was on the field all the time last year? Wow, he really showed him.

Did he hold Shaun Williams accountable for dirty play that got him kicked out of a game last year? Did he hold Vontaze Burfict accountable for his poor play and stacks of penalties? Did he hold the right side of the offensive line accountable for the poor play that people constantly bring up around here? Did he hold Billy Price accountable for his poor play when his backup proved to be playing better (I mean, John Ross got benched for his rookie mistakes, seems kind of hypocritical)?

Hell, did he ever hold Adam Jones, Vontaze Burfict, or Jeremy Hill accountable for costing them the franchise's first playoff game in 2 decades?

...and I've always been a Marvin supporter, too! But come on, if you don't think this is a weakness of his you're being purposefully blind. Do you want to argue that he was good at clock management next? A guy can still be a pretty good coach even if they have flaws (see: Andy Reid).

Exactly, not dogging on Marv just to dog on him but he definately had a lot of flaws even though overall he was a good coach. A bit mediocre but he was a good regular season coach for the most part. Marv just doesn't have an energetic personality, he is quite meh, he is just not an infectious motivating personality.

Now Zac Taylor seems quite the opposite. We will see how the players respond, so far, sounds very electric around the building and on the field.

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2019, 05:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Hell, did he ever hold Adam Jones, Vontaze Burfict, or Jeremy Hill accountable for costing them the franchise's first playoff game in 2 decades?

I don't know.  You tell me.  What exactly was done and said in meetings and on the practice field.

What would you have done if you were a coach to "hold them accountable"?

Aaron Rodgers fumbled and lost a playoff game against the cardinals in 2016.  Was he benched at the start of 2017 to "hold him accountable"?

[SunsetBengal]

(05-21-2019, 09:59 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If you're an NFL player and you need a coach to "maximize your effort" then your shouldn't be in the NFL.

Someone should have asked Vigil a follow up question: "So, were you not giving it your maximum effort then last year?"

I don't know.  I've worked for people that were miserable, and it was drudgery to get through the day, and I've worked for people that can light up a room, making the entire staff feel feel like it's an honor to work for them.  It was the same when I was playing adult football;  Under some coaches I only hung around because of my teammates, other coaches brought out the best of us and we felt like there was no team that we couldn't beat.

[Pat5775]

Fred has got to be the only person alive who nitpicks small details apart while still agreeing with people on their main point (I.e. Marvin needed to go)

So comical. I’m going to miss him when the mods decide he needs another timeout (surely that is coming soon).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know.  You tell me.  What exactly was done and said in meetings and on the practice field.

What would you have done if you were a coach to "hold them accountable"?

Aaron Rodgers fumbled and lost a playoff game against the cardinals in 2016.  Was he benched at the start of 2017 to "hold him accountable"?

The whole point is he didn't have them disciplined enough before the game and it resulted in them doing stupid shit that cost us the game. That is just a dumb question with Aaron Rodgers Fred. Bench maybe the most talented QB of all time cause of one fumble in the Playoffs? I don't think that is based in any reality.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 06:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't know.  I've worked for people that were miserable, and it was drudgery to get through the day, and I've worked for people that can light up a room, making the entire staff feel feel like it's an honor to work for them.  It was the same when I was playing adult football;  Under some coaches I only hung around because of my teammates, other coaches brought out the best of us and we felt like there was no team that we couldn't beat.

Exactly, it definately helps when your coach has an energetic, infectious, motivating personality.

Marvin didn't have this and for people to say otherwise is comical to me.

[fredtoast]

(05-21-2019, 06:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The whole point is he didn't have them disciplined enough before the game and it resulted in them doing stupid shit that cost us the game. That is just a dumb question with Aaron Rodgers Fred. Bench maybe the most talented QB of all time cause of one fumble in the Playoffs? I don't think that is based in any reality.

You did not answer my question.

If you were the coach what would you have done to Hill, Pac, and Burfict to "hold them accountable" for that playoff loss.

If you are going to rip Marvin for not doing something then you should be able to say what he should have done.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2019, 06:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You did not answer my question.

If you were the coach what would you have done to Hill, Pac, and Burfict to "hold them accountable" for that playoff loss.

If you are going to rip Marvin for not doing something then you should be able to say what he should have done.

I would of had the players disciplined already so it would never of happened...

Do you think it was a coincidence our players always folded in the Playoffs under Marvin Lewis Fred?

[Whatever]

(05-21-2019, 05:12 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Anybody want to provide actual examples of Marvin holding a player accountable for his play on the field the last few years, or do you just want to keep playing pretend?

"John Ross!" Oh, you mean the same John Ross that was on the field all the time last year? Wow, he really showed him.

Did he hold Shaun Williams accountable for dirty play that got him kicked out of a game last year? Did he hold Vontaze Burfict accountable for his poor play and stacks of penalties? Did he hold the right side of the offensive line accountable for the poor play that people constantly bring up around here? Did he hold Billy Price accountable for his poor play when his backup proved to be playing better (I mean, John Ross got benched for his rookie mistakes, seems kind of hypocritical)?

Hell, did he ever hold Adam Jones, Vontaze Burfict, or Jeremy Hill accountable for costing them the franchise's first playoff game in 2 decades?

...and I've always been a Marvin supporter, too! But come on, if you don't think this is a weakness of his you're being purposefully blind. Do you want to argue that he was good at clock management next? A guy can still be a pretty good coach even if they have flaws (see: Andy Reid).

To me, that was always a big issue with Marvin.  Certain guys would just wind up being his whipping boys while others could do no wrong.  How many times did Burfict keep his captain's C after showing up for camp out of shape?  

[Pat5775]

(05-21-2019, 06:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The whole point is he didn't have them disciplined enough before the game and it resulted in them doing stupid shit that cost us the game. That is just a dumb question with Aaron Rodgers Fred. Bench maybe the most talented QB of all time cause of one fumble in the Playoffs? I don't think that is based in any reality.

The thing about Fred is, he needs everything to be black-and-white. He doesn’t accept anything that is a judgment (no matter how logical it is).

He will gladly argue anything that isn’t concrete or a statistic, simply because it’s easy. Anyone can do that. The funny thing is he has that holier-than-thou attitude, believing he is somehow “smarter” than the masses because he ignores their main point and nitpicks with small, irrelevant points.

It’s best to not engage with him. He’s either the worlds biggest troll, or he has an inferiority complex. My guess is the former, but hey, he does occasionally make some great posts. I just wish that was all he did around here. His big claim to fame here is being an argumentative nuisance

[NKURyan]

(05-21-2019, 06:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You did not answer my question.

If you were the coach what would you have done to Hill, Pac, and Burfict to "hold them accountable" for that playoff loss.

If you are going to rip Marvin for not doing something then you should be able to say what he should have done.

Gee, I don't know, maybe...
a) Call their asses out publicly
b) Strip them of their captain's roles
c) Work them more/harder come training camp than I might otherwise
d) Start Gio over Jeremy (because he's better anyways)
e) Team fine for Vontaze and Pacman

...or you could just stand up there and blow smoke about how it was a "team effort" that cost them the game and not 3 jackasses doing dumb things, and that we all just need to "keep shoveling".

[HarleyDog]

(05-21-2019, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: EVERYONE here was calling for it.  All I hear is how Marvin "never held players accountable". I don't know, and you don't either.  All I know is that we turned it around despite "no one being held accountable" according to many here.