Trump running a presidential campaign and winning was prime entertainment to me because he said things that would have derailed any other campaign. I think he got away with it because Trump has been a celebrity for 3 decades and it wasn't surprising to anyone to hear him say the things he says. His whole persona has been a rich business man who tough to work for/with and gets women because he's blows money just to brag. Romney tried to dance around the fact he was worth 250 million. Trump bragged his wealth was proof he was a good businessman and negotiator and wanted to use his skill to run the country as his campaign strategy. I understand the want and the need to hold him to the standard of a politician since that what he is, but he really can't be compared to any other political leader in US history or in the world currently either.
The stuff he claims he can and will do in regard to censoring the media, defunding universities, punishing businesses that cater to China and withholding money to states for various reasons would rightfully get called anyone else a dictator who doesn't understand he presidential powers. As much as I see the need to hold those entities accountable as well, Trump doesn't have the power to do any of that and no president should.
But as bad as the real stuff he says is, there's always so much misquoting and misconstruing the things he says just to attack him. It's bewildering to me because he legit says enough things to hammer him on that pedaling bs is just lazy.
For example, he literally called for a "complete shutdown of Muslim entering the United Sates" before his campaign walked it back 2 days later - but it's too late because we already know what he actually wants. Like wholey absolutely f---. That someone didn't end his campaign, bit that doesn't mean he still can't be continually hammered for that...…. yet look at the bs we get.
When he enforced the same travel ban on terror hotbed areas that Obama had - except he did expand it to two more countries - people gave him shit while ignoring it was the same ban Obama had and only was aimed at clear terror hotbed countries. It was claimed that it was aimed at banning Muslim, yet of the 10 countries with the highest Muslim populations only 1 of those was on Trumps list.
Then in January when Trump banned travel with China top Democrats, including Biden, said it was xenophic. Within about 2 weeks the entire world had travel bans to China and like a week later most countries stopped travel from everywhere. It wasn't until April that Biden admitted the travel ban worked, and Trump did it in January.
Why push this bs when Trump literally did call for a complete ban on anyone who is Muslim?
Then we have the "Nazi's are good people" or "both side" or whatever bs. He specifically condemned neo-Nazi is the exact paragraph the "both side" quote is pulled from. In the same exact sentence as the "both sides" quote he said "you had some very bad people in that group". He condemned the Neo-Nazi presence at that Charlette rally within 48 hours. This whole controversy has been debunked in every aspect, yet it still gets pushed 3 years alter even on this board.
Trump never said anything about bleach or injecting anything in regards to the coronavirus. His actual quote was dumb enough on it's own.
The left wing version of Sean Hannity is most people on the left at this point. Every word Trump says has to lead to outrage just for the sake of attacking Trump.
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: The stuff he claims he can and will do in regard to censoring the media, defunding universities, punishing businesses that cater to China and withholding money to states for various reasons would rightfully get called anyone else a dictator who doesn't understand he presidential powers. As much as I see the need to hold those entities accountable as well, Trump doesn't have the power to do any of that and no president should.
But imho, that he doesn't have the power does not make these things irrelevant or harmless. A president so blatantly not acceptinig the limitation of his role, who is also a demagogue with a certain hard-core followership, creates a dangerous atmosphere.
No democracy, certainly not the US democracy, is designed to be absolutely fool-proof. It can be toppled. And I have a hunch that quite a lot of Trump supporters would be willing to.
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: It was claimed that it was aimed at banning Muslim, yet of the 10 countries with the highest Muslim populations only 1 of those was on Trumps list.
But how surprising is that really when, as you said, he himself claimed that this is what he was going for?
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Then in January when Trump banned travel with China top Democrats, including Biden, said it was xenophic.
That one imho counts. I mean, maybe it was xenophobic, but it wasn't irrational and yeah many countries had similar travel bans.
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Then we have the "Nazi's are good people" or "both side" or whatever bs. He specifically condemned neo-Nazi is the exact paragraph the "both side" quote is pulled from. In the same exact sentence as the "both sides" quote he said "you had some very bad people in that group". He condemned the Neo-Nazi presence at that Charlette rally within 48 hours. This whole controversy has been debunked in every aspect, yet it still gets pushed 3 years alter even on this board.
Here I fully disagree. How was it "debunked in every aspect"?
Finding "good people" marching alongside Nazis and white supremacists is still totaly bewildering to me too. No good person marches alongside Nazis and white supremacists. That he acknowledged "bad people" within the Nazis as well, ok, I am not willing to say "good for him" then. Also it was quite clear that he spent the overwhelming part of his "bad people" portion on Antifa.
This one particularly spooked me out and it still does. And it was just him and his words that did so, not the media outrage that followed.
David Duke took it as a kind of endorsement. That should tell you something about that whole scenario. If David Duke thanks you, you might have said something very bad.
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Trump never said anything about bleach or injecting anything in regards to the coronavirus. His actual quote was dumb enough on it's own.
“And then I see the disinfectant. Where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute and is there a way we can do something like that by injections inside or almost a cleaning, cause you see it gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."
...imho, he did say somethig about injecting anything. I mean, it's right in the quote.
(07-10-2020, 09:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: The left wing version of Sean Hannity is most people on the left at this point.
You're exaggerating.
Most people on the left are not like Sean Hannity. Hardly anyone is like Sean Hannity. Have you seen his show recently? This really is a conspiratorial shitshow.
(07-11-2020, 07:15 AM)hollodero Wrote: But imho, that he doesn't have the power does not make these things irrelevant or harmless. A president so blatantly not acceptinig the limitation of his role, who is also a demagogue with a certain hard-core followership, creates a dangerous atmosphere.
No democracy, certainly not the US democracy, is designed to be absolutely fool-proof. It can be toppled. And I have a hunch that quite a lot of Trump supporters would be willing to.
No, I'm saying the things like this are what Trump should be criticized for and that no other President would get a pass on it the way Trump seems to be able to get.
But how surprising is that really when, as you said, he himself claimed that this is what he was going for?
It's not surprising his detractors criticize him for this, but it's not fair criticism if it was basically the same as what the same as what Obama did and no one cared then. This really was aimed at stopping immigration from terrorism hotspots and not a blanket ban on Muslims the way it could have if Trump wanted to make it that.
That one imho counts. I mean, maybe it was xenophobic, but it wasn't irrational and yeah many countries had similar travel bans.
Here I fully disagree. How was it "debunked in every aspect"?
Finding "good people" marching alongside Nazis and white supremacists is still totaly bewildering to me too. No good person marches alongside Nazis and white supremacists. That he acknowledged "bad people" within the Nazis as well, ok, I am not willing to say "good for him" then. Also it was quite clear that he spent the overwhelming part of his "bad people" portion on Antifa.
This one particularly spooked me out and it still does. And it was just him and his words that did so, not the media outrage that followed.
David Duke took it as a kind of endorsement. That should tell you something about that whole scenario. If David Duke thanks you, you might have said something very bad.
I'll copy and link to the two exchanges that all the Trump quotes being used against him in my post below.
“And then I see the disinfectant. Where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute and is there a way we can do something like that by injections inside or almost a cleaning, cause you see it gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."
...imho, he did say somethig about injecting anything. I mean, it's right in the quote.
No you're right on this. He did talk about a possible cure being an injection, but never about specifically injecting bleach or cleaning products -which is what I should have said. My point being it was a dumb quote by Trump, so there's no need to exaggerate it.
You're exaggerating.
Most people on the left are not like Sean Hannity. Hardly anyone is like Sean Hannity. Have you seen his show recently? This really is a conspiratorial shitshow.
I don't watch Hannity, but his entire gimmick was to be completely outraged about Obama every single day regardless of what news about Obama was out for the day. This is exactly what goes on with Trump, except it comes from everywhere.
And look at all the collusion conspiracies pushed by the media about Trump. Just last night MSNBC was still saying the Trump campaign was working with Wikileaks through Roger Stone, despite not evidence of that from any of the investigations.
The day (August 12th) of that incident Trump said, “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” Trump said he had spoken to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, and “we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — really — and I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.”
Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.
And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.
Reporter, Aug. 15, 2017: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …
Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …
Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …
It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
Reporter: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? …
Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story.
Trump never said that Nazi's where "fine people". And unlike what Biden was claiming earlier this year, Trump did condemn the Neo-Nazi's multiple times in the 3 days after this happened in Charlottesville.
(07-10-2020, 05:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you truly stand by those statements, I'd like to see what you feel is the reason for the division among Americans right now, and if DJT is not the cause, then who is?
Your two-party system.
If I were to design a system that divides people, I could not come up with a better one than the one existing in the US. It's a perfect recipe.
Add in social media and how easy propaganda spreads on those, easiliy fulfilling everyone's confirmation bias, and you end up two deeply entrenched factions. Both being able to not form their stances on the news, but to look for news that confirm their stances.
(07-10-2020, 05:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As for the premise of the OP, I'd say that Trump has been targeted by forces working against him, with a collection of allegations that were partly and some entirely falsified, mixed with a few half truths, since before he ever took office. I'm still of the opinion that the entire Mueller investigation should never have happened, and am looking forward to seeing justice handed down on those rogue operatives who conspired to set him up and take him down, before he ever had a chance to lead the American Nation.
This is a conspiracy theory.
Investigations started when Papadopoulos had to brag to an embassador how Russia had dirt on Clinton and were willing to aide the Trump campaign. Even Trey Gowdy agrees that at this point, the FBI is expected to start investigating. This is not about "rogue operatives", they also did not do it to undermine or hurt Trump (If that was the intention, they would have come out before the election), it is the FBI doing their duty.
Then there are undeniable facts surrounding the whole Russia saga. The Trump tower meeting did happen, and it did happen because Trump jr. was eager to get dirt on Clinton from the Russians. Roger Stone did contact Wikileaks to get the hacked Clinton emails published. Manafort did give private briefings to a Russian oligarch while working for the campaign. Flynn did talk to Kislyak in an effort to undermine Obama's contermeasures against Russia, Erik Prince did the same. Russia also did try to influence the election on a huge scale and on behalf of Trump. Russia also targeted election systems in all 50 states. Trump did lie about Trump Tower Moscow plans. Carter Page was already on the FBI's radar long before he joined the Trump campaign. All these data points are real and not a left wing invention.
After all that, how is the FBI supposed to just look the other way?
-- And when Trump fired Comey and explicitly said it was becaue of the whole Russia thing, even Steve Bannon knew right away that a special councel will follow. One appointed by Trump's own DOJ, not by any Democrat.
Lastly, I again want to point to the simple observation that the FBI and Comey did hurt Hillary way more than they hurt Trump pre-election. If they were out to undercut him, why keep the investigation against Trump secret and be all over Hillary at the same time? That would be the lamest conspiracy ever.
The day (August 12th) of that incident Trump said, “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” Trump said he had spoken to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, and “we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — really — and I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.”
Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.
And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.
Reporter, Aug. 15, 2017: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …
Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …
Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …
It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
Reporter: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? …
Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story.
Trump never said that Nazi's where "fine people". And unlike what Biden was claiming earlier this year, Trump did condemn the Neo-Nazi's multiple times in the 3 days after this happened in Charlottesville.
I see your point and I concede your second sentence. But not the first. I cannot fathom good people marching alongside Nazis while allegedly having nothing to do with them. Doesn't compute with me. Even if fine people were to silently protest the tearing down of statues, which of course per se is fine and their right and everything. But as soon as Nazis with torches take over the protest, you can not keep on marching along them or you're not a very fine person. This was a Nazi and white supremacist rally, not a peaceful rally where out of nowhere some of those people happened to show up.
I might bring myself to seeing the other side on that story and that someone might reach a different conclusion. But I cannot go as far as to see it as an obviously unfair accusation of Trump. Even trying to establish a moral equivalency between Nazis/people marching alongside Nazis and people protesting Nazis deserves all kinds of critizism, imho.
(07-11-2020, 08:06 AM)hollodero Wrote: Your two-party system.
If I were to design a system that divides people, I could not come up with a better one than the one existing in the US. It's a perfect recipe.
Add in social media and how easy propaganda spreads on those, easiliy fulfilling everyone's confirmation bias, and you end up two deeply entrenched factions. Both being able to not form their stances on the news, but to look for news that confirm their stances.
This is a conspiracy theory.
Investigations started when Papadopoulos had to brag to an embassador how Russia had dirt on Clinton and were willing to aide the Trump campaign. Even Trey Gowdy agrees that at this point, the FBI is expected to start investigating. This is not about "rogue operatives", they also did not do it to undermine or hurt Trump (If that was the intention, they would have come out before the election), it is the FBI doing their duty.
Then there are undeniable facts surrounding the whole Russia saga. The Trump tower meeting did happen, and it did happen because Trump jr. was eager to get dirt on Clinton from the Russians. Roger Stone did contact Wikileaks to get the hacked Clinton emails published. Manafort did give private briefings to a Russian oligarch while working for the campaign. Flynn did talk to Kislyak in an effort to undermine Obama's contermeasures against Russia, Erik Prince did the same. Russia also did try to influence the election on a huge scale and on behalf of Trump. Russia also targeted election systems in all 50 states. Trump did lie about Trump Tower Moscow plans. Carter Page was already on the FBI's radar long before he joined the Trump campaign. All these data points are real and not a left wing invention.
After all that, how is the FBI supposed to just look the other way?
-- And when Trump fired Comey and explicitly said it was becaue of the whole Russia thing, even Steve Bannon knew right away that a special councel will follow. One appointed by Trump's own DOJ, not by any Democrat.
Lastly, I again want to point to the simple observation that the FBI and Comey did hurt Hillary way more than they hurt Trump pre-election. If they were out to undercut him, why keep the investigation against Trump secret and be all over Hillary at the same time? That would be the lamest conspiracy ever.
Excellent post.
The brainwashing over what really happened is equal to the run up to the Iraq War when over half of the population was convinced that Saddam was involved in the 9-11 attacks.
A lot of people on the right actually believe that the Trump campaign never did anything that even deserved an investigation. They are convinced it is all a hoax or a conspiracy to take down Trump.
The truth is that Comey and the FBI helped Trump win by making public the investigation of Hillary before the election but keeping the investigation of Trump's campaign a secret.
(07-10-2020, 06:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How can I?? Because of shit like this, that the same people with the same investigative powers at the time, chose to turn a blind eye to..
No one has turned a blind eye on that. In fact it has been thuroughly investigated and there was no impropriaty.
First of all many of the donations to the Clinton Foundation were made BEFORE Hillary was even Secrtary of State.
Second, the State Department did not control the deal. It had to be agreed to by the Canadian government and multiple other US government departments.
Third, the donations were to a charitable foundation that, unlike the Trump Foundation that was shut down for being a scam, provides millions of dollars of support for underprivileged people around the world.
Finally Hillary did not even sign off on the deal. It was handled by an undresecretary beneath her.
It is another "Benghazi" type situation where the facts have been fully investigated and there was no wrong doing found.
(07-11-2020, 08:29 AM)hollodero Wrote: I see your point and I concede your second sentence. But not the first. I cannot fathom good people marching alongside Nazis while allegedly having nothing to do with them. Doesn't compute with me. Even if fine people were to silently protest the tearing down of statues, which of course per se is fine and their right and everything. But as soon as Nazis with torches take over the protest, you can not keep on marching along them or you're not a very fine person. This was a Nazi and white supremacist rally, not a peaceful rally where out of nowhere some of those people happened to show up.
I might bring myself to seeing the other side on that story and that someone might reach a different conclusion. But I cannot go as far as to see it as an obviously unfair accusation of Trump. Even trying to establish a moral equivalency between Nazis/people marching alongside Nazis and people protesting Nazis deserves all kinds of critizism, imho.
Different groups with specific beliefs and objectives come to the same large event, rallies and marches all the time to promote their own agendas.. Legitimate anti-police brutality protestors are along side rioters and Antifa agitators time and time again at BLM marches. And even the general support for saying black lives matter is different than the stated agenda of BLM, Inc. The rally was in a public place. A few dozens a-holes show up to a park or street so who can kick them out? Legally they can be there anyways. If you continue on with your march or rally they are going to be there too, so I'm not sure what the peaceful people are supposed to do other then stay peaceful.
The day (August 12th) of that incident Trump said, “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence, on many sides. On many sides.” Trump said he had spoken to Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, and “we agreed that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection — really — and I say this so strongly — true affection for each other.”
Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.
And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.
Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator. We are equal under the law. And we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.
Reporter, Aug. 15, 2017: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides …
Trump: Well, I do think there’s blame – yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. You look at, you look at both sides. I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And, and, and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say.
Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. …
Trump: Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo — and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. …
It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.
Reporter: I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? …
Trump: No, no. There were people in that rally, and I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly, the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest, because you know, I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this: There are two sides to a story.
Trump never said that Nazi's where "fine people". And unlike what Biden was claiming earlier this year, Trump did condemn the Neo-Nazi's multiple times in the 3 days after this happened in Charlottesville.
Trump gets blamed for a lot of things because of what Trump says and does...
Part of Trump's problem is that he is Trump the Character not Trump the Person. He believes he is the persona created rather than just being a real human being. So he doesn't react like a human and instead says what he thinks his "fans" want to hear. Then, after getting enough negative feedback he will says "something" right.
So when pressed initially he will defend the people marching. He loves chaos. He wants a fight. It keeps people on edge and he thinks that gives him an advantage. Then, eventually, someone gets through to him that he was defending a group of people chanting "You Will Not Replace Us," "Blood and Soil,'" "Russia is Our Friend" he will spin to "I wasn't defending ALL of them".
Add in that his very weak mind believes he is always right..."many people say it".
The concept of "both sides" means to him that both agree with him. So when forced to concede such an argument he simply makes a rote statement like "fine people on both sides". I don't think Trump likes Nazis any more than I think he likes Lindsey Graham. Trump likes people who like Trump. And his a practiced "style" of speaking where he says little, repeats the same words and then has someone explain what he meant.
That's why it takes days for him to speak on a controversy like this or the Floyd murder or anything that he feels might upset the people who vote for him...he's playing a ratings game and doesn't want his viewership to go down.
that is why he finally wore a mask in public yesterday. He was losing the debate on it and so he'll pretend like he was always for wearing masks and anyone who says different wasn't listening to him. It's why people are fawning over him wearing a mask in public yesterday. They know without immediate and constant praise he won't do it again.
Meanwhile the rest of us wonder why it took six months for the POTUS to lead by example...and how he will spin his past statements about Biden looking weak wearing a mask.
Actually that one was already handled by his supporters saying Trump looked "Presidential in a mask" and Biden looked "stupid".
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(07-11-2020, 02:18 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Different groups with specific beliefs and objectives come to the same large event, rallies and marches all the time to promote their own agendas.. Legitimate anti-police brutality protestors are along side rioters and Antifa agitators time and time again at BLM marches. And even the general support for saying black lives matter is different than the stated agenda of BLM, Inc. The rally was in a public place. A few dozens a-holes show up to a park or street so who can kick them out? Legally they can be there anyways. If you continue on with your march or rally they are going to be there too, so I'm not sure what the peaceful people are supposed to do other then stay peaceful.
Yeah, imho you make it sound as if there was a gathering of peaceful people and all of a sudden, a small bunch of Nazis showed up and messed up the whole thing. OK what are the peaceful protesters supposed to do, go home because a Nazi was coming?
--- But that's not how I saw that unfold. The whole rally obviously already was a Nazi and white supremacy march on August 11. This was easy to determine. If you decide to participate in that event on the next day August 12 still, you can't quite claim you have nothing to do with the Richards Spencers and David Dukes etc. that took over the whole thing. You just can't. And no one else should.
These were white supremacists and Nazis that rallied there in August 12. Not a peaceful assembly with a few bad apples. And that was known, it also was known to David Duke who thanked Trump for his fairness and his condemnation of Antifa terror. Even putting everything else aside (which I absolutely am not willing to do), it is bad enough when David Duke openly endorses you and you don't immediately push back on that.
That's more of a sidenote really, but still.
Nah, Donald Trump tried to walk a line as to not lose the votes of these guys. And that imho is abhorrent.
(07-12-2020, 12:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah, imho you make it sound as if there was a gathering of peaceful people and all of a sudden, a small bunch of Nazis showed up and messed up the whole thing. OK what are the peaceful protesters supposed to do, go home because a Nazi was coming?
--- But that's not how I saw that unfold. The whole rally obviously already was a Nazi and white supremacy march on August 11. This was easy to determine. If you decide to participate in that event on the next day August 12 still, you can't quite claim you have nothing to do with the Richards Spencers and David Dukes etc. that took over the whole thing. You just can't. And no one else should.
These were white supremacists and Nazis that rallied there in August 12. Not a peaceful assembly with a few bad apples. And that was known, it also was known to David Duke who thanked Trump for his fairness and his condemnation of Antifa terror. Even putting everything else aside (which I absolutely am not willing to do), it is bad enough when David Duke openly endorses you and you don't immediately push back on that.
That's more of a sidenote really, but still.
Nah, Donald Trump tried to walk a line as to not lose the votes of these guys. And that imho is abhorrent.
Yeah, exactly. The night before they were carrying tiki torches and chanting (shouting) blood and soil. I saw that before that woman was ran over. And the guy who ran her over pleaded guilty. So, he did that on purpose.
I believe Trump's comments about the Charlotteville incident are a perfect example of how his ignorance hurts him.
I believe his first comments were made without any knowledge of what happened. He is just so used to bullshitting he thinks he can get away with making comments without really knowing what he is talking about.
It was a white supremacist event from the beginning. Vice Network actually had a reporter embedded with the group that was running it. They had no idea what a big story it would be. In an interview with the leader of the white supremacists BEFORE THE EVENT he was thankful for Donald Trump making it acceptable for them to march and demonstrate in public without masks or hoods. He hated the fact that Donald gave his daughter to a Jew, but overall he was thrilled that they had a President on their side.
(07-12-2020, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I believe Trump's comments about the Charlotteville incident are a perfect example of how his ignorance hurts him.
I believe his first comments were made without any knowledge of what happened. He is just so used to bullshitting he thinks he can get away with making comments without really knowing what he is talking about.
It was a white supremacist event from the beginning. Vice Network actually had a reporter embedded with the group that was running it. They had no idea what a big story it would be. In an interview with the leader of the white supremacists BEFORE THE EVENT he was thankful for Donald Trump making it acceptable for them to march and demonstrate in public without masks or hoods. He hated the fact that Donald gave his daughter to a Jew, but overall he was thrilled that they had a President on their side.
I hate to be "that guy", but do you have a link to support that info? I'd like to see the entire story.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-12-2020, 05:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I hate to be "that guy", but do you have a link to support that info? I'd like to see the entire story.
It was on Vice... I remember seeing it myself. I couldn't find it when I looked for it just now, but Fred just gave a pretty accurate summary of it. The Nazi on the story takes tear gas like a *****. I think it was actually posted on here way back when it happened in the Charlottesville thread.
Edit: Just noticed Fred already pointed out it was from Vice. So my only contribution to the matter is the guy's a *****.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(07-12-2020, 06:51 PM)jason Wrote: It was on Vice... I remember seeing it myself. I couldn't find it when I looked for it just now, but Fred just gave a pretty accurate summary of it. The Nazi on the story takes tear gas like a *****. I think it was actually posted on here way back when it happened in the Charlottesville thread.
Edit: Just noticed Fred already pointed out it was from Vice. So my only contribution to the matter is the guy's a *****.
What I'm leading up to is that if there is no link to the story, perhaps it was retracted for editorial reasons?? (maybe it had some untruths in it) You think that I didn't actually try to look it up myself, for verification?
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-12-2020, 07:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What I'm leading up to is that if there is no link to the story, perhaps it was retracted for editorial reasons?? (maybe it had some untruths in it) You think that I didn't actually try to look it up myself, for verification?
It was a video... A lot of it filmed during whatever that was that took place it Charlottesville. Quotes straight from the horse's mouth. It's not really about Trump... Just how this goon perceives what he says... And it really it's a case of not all Trump supporters are racist, but all racists are Trump supporters.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(07-12-2020, 08:18 PM)jason Wrote: It was a video... A lot of it filmed during whatever that was that took place it Charlottesville. Quotes straight from the horse's mouth. It's not really about Trump... Just how this goon perceives what he says... And it really it's a case of not all Trump supporters are racist, but all racists are Trump supporters.
(07-12-2020, 05:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I hate to be "that guy", but do you have a link to support that info? I'd like to see the entire story.
Well I looked up the video and the specific interview I remember was not in it. I must have had it confused with another show.
But it is still easy to find a ton of white supremacists praising Trump for "normalizing" white supremacy
Here is a quote from just last year
Andrew Anglin again praised the President, writing on the Daily Stormer the day after the rally: “Telling those women to go back to their countries is by far the most racist thing he’s ever said – especially since one of them was a black American, descended from slaves. And by refusing to apologize, he has effectively normalized the opinion among the masses of goyim that you can believe that America is a white country, for white people – and that brown people are our guests and if they don’t like being guests then they have to go home.”
Here is one from 2016 during the Presidential campaign.
In 2015, MATTHEW HEIMBACH founded the Traditionalist Worker Party. They're white separatists who want distinct homelands in the U.S. for whites and blacks. They want Jews out of the country entirely. He said "Trump has shown us that the majority of everyday Americans support our sort of message."
Here is another post from last year
One 8chan commenter wrote that they saw the reaction to Trump's words as an "essential first step" in normalizing the hateful idea that individuals can choose not to exist alongside people they don't like because of their skin color or where they come from.
The commenter wrote it would be a big step forward to normalize an idea that "it is ok for him not to want to be swamped by brown scum that clearly despise him, that these invaders have stepped well out of line making demands of us, and that if they don't like the way we run things they can go the hell back," the poster wrote. "These are the ideological seeds from which actual revolutions begin. When someone with perceived authority like Trump comes along and says them, it carries weight with many people. The jewish media is right to be terrified of these ideas becoming normalized."
I'll keep looking for the video I saw and described before. I am pretty bsure it was from the same Viceland crew that was in Charlottesville.
(07-12-2020, 08:18 PM)jason Wrote: but all racists are Trump supporters.
(07-12-2020, 08:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: O
M
G
Bfine is correct.
Even though the white supremacist generally celebrate Trump, many don't think Trump goes far enough. They like that he is normalizing their message, but many wish he would go farther.
(07-12-2020, 08:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well I looked up the video and the specific interview I remember was not in it. I must have had it confused with another show.
But it is still easy to find a ton of white supremacists praising Trump for "normalizing" white supremacy
Here is a quote from just last year
Andrew Anglin again praised the President, writing on the Daily Stormer the day after the rally: “Telling those women to go back to their countries is by far the most racist thing he’s ever said – especially since one of them was a black American, descended from slaves. And by refusing to apologize, he has effectively normalized the opinion among the masses of goyim that you can believe that America is a white country, for white people – and that brown people are our guests and if they don’t like being guests then they have to go home.”
Here is one from 2016 during the Presidential campaign.
In 2015, MATTHEW HEIMBACH founded the Traditionalist Worker Party. They're white separatists who want distinct homelands in the U.S. for whites and blacks. They want Jews out of the country entirely. He said "Trump has shown us that the majority of everyday Americans support our sort of message."
Here is another post from last year
One 8chan commenter wrote that they saw the reaction to Trump's words as an "essential first step" in normalizing the hateful idea that individuals can choose not to exist alongside people they don't like because of their skin color or where they come from.
The commenter wrote it would be a big step forward to normalize an idea that "it is ok for him not to want to be swamped by brown scum that clearly despise him, that these invaders have stepped well out of line making demands of us, and that if they don't like the way we run things they can go the hell back," the poster wrote. "These are the ideological seeds from which actual revolutions begin. When someone with perceived authority like Trump comes along and says them, it carries weight with many people. The jewish media is right to be terrified of these ideas becoming normalized."
I'll keep looking for the video I saw and described before. I am pretty bsure it was from the same Viceland crew that was in Charlottesville.
So, in your confusion, you're attempting to pass off some imagined stuff as evidence??
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
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