Iraq Veteran Fired Due To Skin Color

[*bfine32*]

(07-30-2019, 01:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, we know the veteran for whom this thread was made took responsibility for not doing enough about the diversity according to staffers in the meeting. It is very possible that she resigned on her own.

I'm also not saying it definitely didn't happen, only that based upon the information we have provided to us that it is an assumption to make the claim that she, or any of the other staffers, we asked to resign or fired. If they were, there is evidence that it was because they held some responsibility in the hiring practices for the staff.

Pardon me for not jumping to conclusions without supporting evidence, something some individuals seem more than happy to do even though they get pissy about the media doing it.

I'm not jumping to conclusions; nor have I given any thoughts on the firings. I'm just entertained about how the "burden of proof" is assigned around here depending on the action. 

I do wonder if we'd be trying equally as hard to dismiss the race factor if the colors were different. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-30-2019, 05:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not jumping to conclusions; nor have I given any thoughts on the firings. I'm just entertained about how the "burden of proof" is assigned around here depending on the action. 

I do wonder if we'd be trying equally as hard to dismiss the race factor if the colors were different. 

I'm not trying very hard at all to dismiss the race factor; just reading the facts laid out in the article.

[*bfine32*]

(07-30-2019, 08:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not trying very hard at all to dismiss the race factor; just reading the facts laid out in the article.

Oh of course not you. I was referring to the others trying to dismiss the race factor

[Belsnickel]

(07-30-2019, 08:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh of course not you. I was referring to the others trying to dismiss the race factor

I think the facts laid out in the articles dismiss the idea Jaslow was asked to resign due to her race pretty handily.

[*bfine32*]

(07-30-2019, 09:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the facts laid out in the articles dismiss the idea Jaslow was asked to resign due to her race pretty handily.

I'm going to take this as you truly believe her race had nothing to do with the request to resign. But if it's OK I'll disagree

[Dill]

(07-30-2019, 08:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh of course not you. I was referring to the others trying to dismiss the race factor

You don't include me amongst those trying to dismiss the race factor, do you?  

[*bfine32*]

(07-30-2019, 11:57 PM)Dill Wrote: You don't include me amongst those trying to dismiss the race factor, do you?  

Nah, you suggested it was OK to ask for their resignation because of race, 

[Dill]

(07-31-2019, 12:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, you suggested it was OK to ask for their resignation because of race, 

Because of a race/diversity issue. And I meant it.

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2019, 12:37 AM)Dill Wrote: Because of a race/diversity issue. And I meant it.

I know you did. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-30-2019, 01:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Ok, I found the WaPo article and then the Politico article it points to: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/29/cheri-bustos-democrats-diversity-1438867

It looks like the timeline of events was that Jaslow accepted blame for the lack of diversity in the DCCC on Friday, and then the two Representatives did indeed call for her to be fired on Sunday. So it is likely she was asked to resign (I don't know anything about the others), but it is because of her actions and not because of her skin color, as has been claimed by some.

(07-30-2019, 02:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They definitely called for Jaslow to be replaced, albeit after she had taken responsibility for the diversity issues in the staffing.

The Politico one that you linked had this in it, just clearing up Dino's confusion about the word "fire", as I'm sure you saw it in the article.

"In the most dramatic move so far, Texas Reps. Vicente Gonzalez and Filemon Vela told POLITICO Sunday that Bustos should fire her top aide, DCCC executive director Allison Jaslow."

https://yournews.com/2019/07/30/1118066/dccc-executive-director-forced-to-resign-because-shes-white/

Claiming that the organization was in “complete chaos,” the lawmakers demanded DCCC chairwoman Cheri Bustos “appoint a qualified person of color, of which there are many, as executive director at once.”

They had a meeting on Monday Morning with Bustos, after the meeting, the resignations started rolling. Say what you want, but that's forced because none of them planned to resign all at the same time. And obviously the people pushed out were not diverse enough, so that means it was based on race. Say it call it what you will. That's how anyone with an objective mind will see it.

[Belsnickel]

(07-31-2019, 11:56 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The Politico one that you linked had this in it, just clearing up Dino's confusion about the word "fire", as I'm sure you saw it in the article.

"In the most dramatic move so far, Texas Reps. Vicente Gonzalez and Filemon Vela told POLITICO Sunday that Bustos should fire her top aide, DCCC executive director Allison Jaslow."

https://yournews.com/2019/07/30/1118066/dccc-executive-director-forced-to-resign-because-shes-white/

Claiming that the organization was in “complete chaos,” the lawmakers demanded DCCC chairwoman Cheri Bustos “appoint a qualified person of color, of which there are many, as executive director at once.”

They had a meeting on Monday Morning with Bustos, after the meeting, the resignations started rolling. Say what you want, but that's forced because none of them planned to resign all at the same time. And obviously the people pushed out were not diverse enough, so that means it was based on race. Say it call it what you will. That's how anyone with an objective mind will see it.

You have someone who claimed responsibility for the lack of diversity and the person who was the director of diversity among the resignations. I'm curious how one can objectively say it was based on race when that is the case. The objective evidence points to their resignations being the result of their actions or lack thereof.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-31-2019, 12:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You have someone who claimed responsibility for the lack of diversity and the person who was the director of diversity among the resignations. I'm curious how one can objectively say it was based on race when that is the case. The objective evidence points to their resignations being the result of their actions or lack thereof.

IF their wasn't any complaints about diversity at the top?
Would the ones that resigned still be in their jobs?

yes no?

[Belsnickel]

(07-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: IF their wasn't any complaints about diversity at the top?
Would the ones that resigned still be in their jobs?

yes no?

That is sincerely a question we don't have an answer for.

This is the information I have seen for a timeline of events:
Complaints about a lack of diversity in the DCCC (not necessarily at the top, at least that I saw).
On Friday, a staff meeting is held during which Jaslow takes responsibility for the lack of diversity in the DCCC staff.
Sunday, two Representatives say Jaslow should be replaced with a person of color in the wake of this controversy,
Monday, Jaslow, the director of diversity, and four others tender their resignations.

These are the facts that I have seen in the articles. The objective information about this whole incident. "What if" games aren't objective because they are based upon events that did not occur.

[Dill]

(07-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: IF their wasn't any complaints about diversity at the top?
Would the ones that resigned still be in their jobs?

yes no?

I'll happily answer that question.  Yes they might over the short term.
And the whole DCCC would then be open to legitimate charges of hypocrisy as voters and vendors other congressional staff began to notice.
"White people in charge of diversity? LOL see, that's what you get!"

But I am hoping someone will also answer my question:

If the DCCC staff is supposed to represent the diversity they require of their vendors, and which they promise their constituents,
and a white person comes into a directorship and ignores diversity goals in hiring, leaving qualified candidates hanging to prefer other whites,

should that person and the staff in question be retained?

Yes or no?

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2019, 12:52 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: IF their wasn't any complaints about diversity at the top?
Would the ones that resigned still be in their jobs?

yes no?

It is obvious that race; particularly white skin, was the driving reason for behind these resignations. Folks will feign "we can't be sure", but you just have to take that for what it's worth.

As to the resignation(s) themselves: It's easy for me to say "you should have stood your ground" but these people probably want jobs later, so the smart move was to voluntarily resign. 

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2019, 03:36 PM)Dill Wrote: I'll happily answer that question.  Yes they might over the short term.
And the whole DCCC would then be open to legitimate charges of hypocrisy as voters and vendors other congressional staff began to notice.
"White people in charge of diversity? LOL see, that's what you get!"

But I am hoping someone will also answer my question:

If the DCCC staff is supposed to represent the diversity they require of their vendors, and which they promise their constituents,
and a white person comes into a directorship and ignores diversity goals in hiring, leaving qualified candidates hanging to prefer other whites,

should that person and the staff in question be retained?

Yes or no?

Your question is one that is asked assuming facts. How do you know the best qualified people were not hired and their only shortcoming was being white? As to diversity: there's more to it than skin color. I was a diversity hire. I was a combat arms veteran with 0 experience in personnel matters, but someone high up thought it would be productive to infuse the combat arms mentality with the analytical mentality of personnel managers.

Can't we just say what happened? Woman was white and she was asked to step down because of skin color?

To be fair I think you are acknowledging this simple fact; you're just asserting it was justified.

[Belsnickel]

I like when people who say people call racist too much are calling it even though the evidence points to the contrary.

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2019, 08:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I like when people who say people call racist too much are calling it even though the evidence points to the contrary.

You could have quoted Dill if you wanted to call his view of the situation into question.

As to me: I've not called anyone racist in this thread, but I do believe that Ms Jaslow was asked to resign partly because of the color of her skin. I'll leave it up to others if they feel that is an example of racism.

Let's try an honesty experiment:

White Person A:  Black person B; you've hired too many black folk and I want you to resign

Black Person B: You may be right; we have too many blacks working here, I resign

Unbiased Observer: We have no prove that Person B's skin color had anything to do with the request for Person A asking for resignation.

Pick the person that looks the silliest in the vignette:

White Person A

Black Person B

Unbiased Observer

[Belsnickel]

(07-31-2019, 08:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You could have quoted Dill if you wanted to call his view of the situation into question.

As to me: I've not called anyone racist in this thread, but I do believe that Ms Jaslow was asked to resign partly because of the color of her skin. I'll leave it up to others if they feel that is an example of racism.

Let's try an honesty experiment:

White Person A:  Black person B; you've hired too many black folk and I want you to resign

Black Person B: You may be right; we have too many blacks working here, I resign

Unbiased Observer: We have no prove that Person B's skin color had anything to do with the request for Person A asking for resignation.

Pick the person that looks the silliest in the vignette:

White Person A

Black Person B

Unbiased Observer

Unsurprisingly, this is an inaccurate and grossly over-simplified version of what occurred. I'll just leave you to be intellectually dishonest on your own with this one; leading a horse to water and all that.

[*bfine32*]

(07-31-2019, 09:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Unsurprisingly, this is an inaccurate and grossly over-simplified version of what occurred. I'll just leave you to be intellectually dishonest on your own with this one; leading a horse to water and all that.

It's entertaining the things we choose to make complicated around here.

BTW, you didn't give your answer for the honesty experiment,