(12-05-2022, 04:14 PM)Nepa Wrote: Early in the year, posters were pointing out (or asserting) that the Bengals couldn't figure out cover two. Now, I'm not sure what defense Burrow and the Bengals can't handle. If the OL and blocking backs can stop the great pass rushers (Myles Garrett, Micah Parsons, Aaron Donald, etc.) then the sky is the limit for this offense. We will get a test this coming Sunday in terms of stopping the pass rushers.
I agree. But, let's not forget how putrid we looked against the Browns several weeks ago.
I'm on a high. This team is rolling. But, at points they've looked bad.
(12-05-2022, 07:32 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He was great in his third year. Not bad considering he came from Wyoming.
It’s no coincidence that happened to be the season the Bills traded for Stefon Diggs. Even the best QB’s need those truly elite playmakers to really take their game to the next level.
(12-05-2022, 10:52 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Didn’t Mahomes sit a year behind Alex Smith?
Most of a year I think. Might have come in the last couple games.
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(12-05-2022, 10:52 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Didn’t Mahomes sit a year behind Alex Smith?
Yes. And Smith was a Pro Bowler in that offense that season. Having a HoF coach, and possibly the best offensive mind of his generation, certainly counts for a lot.
(12-05-2022, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes. And Smith was a Pro Bowler in that offense that season. Having a HoF coach, and possibly the best offensive mind of his generation, certainly counts for a lot.
I am merely commenting on someone else mentioning Allen and Mahomes. Allen took some time to get up to speed and Mahomes sat his first year on top of Rodgers who was already mentioned as sitting behind Favre for a while.
(12-05-2022, 09:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I agree. But, let's not forget how putrid we looked against the Browns several weeks ago.
I'm on a high. This team is rolling. But, at points they've looked bad.
They really only looked bad (other than just out of sorts weeks 1 and 2) in the Browns game.
To be fair, they were dealing with the sudden death of an assistant coach, the loss of Chase, the loss of Reader, and an injured Jonah. Kind of the perfect storm. Really doubt we see that again this year.
(12-05-2022, 03:29 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Simply put, I think only Mahomes and Allen have shown such greatness so early in their careers in a sustainable way. RGIII's game was not sustainable. You could argue about Lamar's. I put Rogers in a different category because he was able to sit and learn for three years before starting, but then he took off. Brady, despite all his rings, was more of a game manager at this point in his career. Manning and Elway didn't start this fast. It is amazing what these three have done.
To be fair, B. Roethlisberger is the youngest QB to ever win a SB..he was 23.
To answer the OP, no base D "works" against any elite QB.....UNLESS you just doninate the other guys via:
1) Elite pass rush both outside and up the middle.
2) Shutdown coverage.
3) A combination of the two that is not quite elite/shutdown, but ehen taken together is quite a handful.
NFL football is like NBA basketball now, you cannot stop great offense, you just try to make them work harder, be a bit less efficient, make them uncomfortable, don't give them their pet plays, and hope that eventually it pays off with mistakes. Or being off just a smidge off that turns 7 into 3 or a first into 4th.
The other way to stop elite offenses is to use your offense to:
1) Put pressure on them by outscoring/getting the lead.
2) Shortening the game via dominant ball possession
Comparing Burrow's raw numbers to great QBs of the past is almost meaningless given how the rulles have changed, but I think team success and where a QB ranks amongst his peers still have some value (it is a team game, however).
The best I have seen (in no particular order)
1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Elway
4) Marino
5) Manning
6) Young
7) Fouts
8) Staubach
9) Rodgers
10) Bradshaw
11) Tarkenton
12) Moon
13) Kelly
14) Favre
15) Warner
16) Big Ben
17) Aikman
Before my time:
1) Unitas
2) Graham
3) Starr
4) Griese
5) Dawson
6) Luckman
7) Van Brocklin
8) Baugh
(12-05-2022, 02:06 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I'd be curious how Burrow would perform against an elite secondary. Not sure he's went up against that monster yet.
I remember Burrow struggling vs. the Broncos until Boyd broke through for that TD.
Elite as in stats or players?
Burrow has already faced:
Ravens - most likely the highest number of gifted players
Jets - best young talent
Browns have a very solid group - Ward playing this time.
We wil play:
Bills are very good (13 interceptions)
Bucs are still decent
If we make it to the SB - the Niners are the absolute best in the league all the way around - but no Jimmy G, so...?
Burrow has had bad games, great games. But in EVERY SINGLE GAME he’s learned. Burrows biggest pro coming out of college was his IQ. I think he’s shown that in his first 3 years. We’ve gone through stints where pressure bothered him. Where cover 2 bothered him. We’ve seen teams do well against Burrow but just selling out to guard deep.
At this point i think Burrow has mastered every mainstream bass defense he can possibly see. I am afraid to say this because there’s always SOMETHING that will fluster a guy but at this point, if something does fluster Burrow it won’t be a teams base D.
At this point my question is, is there still a base D that exists that should be the template to what you should play VS Burrow?
Imo you can’t play man damn near at all. You can’t play cover 2 because he now fully accepts that every play can’t be a TD and he’ll tear up your middle. You can’t play cover 3 because cover 3 is basically man down the field and all he has to do is see where the single high safety goes. You cant play cover 2 man because then we’ll destroy you with Boyd. You can’t run cover 4 as a base D because one it’s stupid and 2 with the emergence of our run game we would literally eat that coverage up.
The only way i feel there is a template to beat Burrow is if you have an elite pass rush. So my opinion is based off the assumption i have a pass rush. I say you stay in cover 2 as your base D and hope and pray you can tackle guys where they catch it and hope and pray the running game sucks that day. I racked my brain a long time and i just can’t think of a defense that still tricks Burrow. Now with my luck the Browns will create a brand new coverage just so i eat crow but hey it is what it is.
The only way to beat him now is with a great pass rush and no blitz, the Stains and Cowboys are the ones this year that
really stand out that gave Burrow a lot of problems. Also, dare us to run but that don't work either now if the OL keeps it
up like it has been as of late.
Also would be interested in if a Defense did to Burrow what we did to Mahomes with the mush rush and a QB spy like Sam.
(12-05-2022, 02:06 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I'd be curious how Burrow would perform against an elite secondary. Not sure he's went up against that monster yet.
I remember Burrow struggling vs. the Broncos until Boyd broke through for that TD.
A great pass rush and an elite secondary should give him problems for sure, he isn't invincible, but he could be...
(12-06-2022, 11:12 AM)Old Dipstick Wrote: To be fair, B. Roethlisberger is the youngest QB to ever win a SB..he was 23.
To also be fair, saying Piggy won that Super Bowl is the biggest exaggeration in sports. Defense and officiating GAVE the steelers that Super Bowl. Piggy's QB rating that game was lower than his age. 21. What an elite turd.
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