Is The United States In Trouble?

[Belsnickel]

We are absolutely in trouble. We have horribly uninformed or misinformed voters that are being guided by the elected officials and their media of choice on the issues. We have extremely low turnout and engagement among the electorate. We have seen a reduction in democratic principles from our government in recent years. We are seeing strong evidence of potential undue influence in what is supposed to be the non-political branch. We have politicians choosing their constituents rather than voters choosing their politicians.

There is a lot going on that is a concern as someone that favors liberal democratic principles. I again point to the two quotes in my signature.

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 03:20 PM)Lucidus Wrote: If your statement asserting transgender regret is concerning gender affirming procedures, it's simply not supported by the data. They do not tend to experience regret, and those that do comprise an extremely miniscule percentage.

The NIH provided the following meta-analysis in 2021:

Results:
A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures. The prevalence of regret among patients undergoing transmasculine and transfemenine surgeries was <1% (IC <1%–<1%) and 1% (CI <1%–2%), respectively. A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification. The majority had clear regret based on Kuiper and Cohen-Kettenis classification.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/

It has only been two years since the actual boom and it generally takes years to know whether a person is happy with the new life, this site, however, says a third of patients regret their transition and many people were pressured by doctors or other transgender people not to voice their regret:

Quote:Many have said their gender identity remained fluid well after the start of treatment, and a third of them expressed regret about their decision to transition from the gender they were assigned at birth. Some said they avoided telling their doctors about detransitioning out of embarrassment or shame. Others said their doctors were ill-equipped to help them with the process. Most often, they talked about how transitioning did not address their mental health problems.

In his continuing search for detransitioners, MacKinnon spent hours scrolling through TikTok and sifting through online forums where people shared their experiences and found comfort from each other. These forays opened his eyes to the online abuse detransitioners receive – not just the usual anti-transgender attacks, but members of the transgender community telling them to “shut up” and even sending death threats.
“I can’t think of any other examples where you’re not allowed to speak about your own healthcare experiences if you didn’t have a good outcome,” MacKinnon told Reuters.

Why do you think that is? 

I know you know........

(06-22-2023, 03:52 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Invaded by who exactly? People who are simply different than you? 

When you state that people are trying to identify as something they're not, you are asserting you know an individuals mind better than they do. How exactly do you determine someone's true internal identity?

People entering this country illegally is an invasion. I could care less if they look like me. I have many minority friends. I had many Spanish-speaking friends in college, some from Mexico, as well as from many other countries, which some were European and Asian.

Just because you identify as something, it doesn't mean you are what you identify as. There is a thing called objective reality.

[NATI BENGALS]

We could be in big time trouble depending on the secrets the traitor stole and possibly sold to our adversaries.

[*Synric*]

(06-22-2023, 05:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: We are absolutely in trouble. We have horribly uninformed or misinformed voters that are being guided by the elected officials and their media of choice on the issues. We have extremely low turnout and engagement among the electorate. We have seen a reduction in democratic principles from our government in recent years. We are seeing strong evidence of potential undue influence in what is supposed to be the non-political branch. We have politicians choosing their constituents rather than voters choosing their politicians.

There is a lot going on that is a concern as someone that favors liberal democratic principles. I again point to the two quotes in my signature.

A vast majority of voters believe politics is only the presidential election. No one even knows who their local politicians are and where the money they do get is being spent. We need to focus more on our communities. Ignore the information war change starts at home.

[Lucidus]

(06-22-2023, 06:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It has only been two years since the actual boom and it generally takes years to know whether a person is happy with the new life, this site, however, says a third of patients regret their transition and many people were pressured by doctors or other transgender people not to voice their regret:

Why do you think that is? 

I know you know........

By MacKinnon's own accord:

In his continuing search for detransitioners, MacKinnon spent hours scrolling through TikTok and sifting through online forums where people shared their experiences and found comfort from each other. These forays opened his eyes to the online abuse detransitioners receive – not just the usual anti-transgender attacks, but members of the transgender community telling them to “shut up” and even sending death threats.

Would you agree that this is neither scientific nor reasonably exhaustive by any metric. In fact, the actual study he took part in only had a mere 28 participants -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35877120/.

Quote:Just because you identify as something, it doesn't mean you are what you identify as. There is a thing called objective reality.

Does this same logic apply to you? Other than biological sex classification at birth - which is merely a label given to a set of anatomical, hormonal, and genetic attributes - what objective method could I use to determine you are who / what you identify as; in terms of gender, sexuality and preferences?

[CKwi88]

(06-22-2023, 05:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: We are absolutely in trouble. We have horribly uninformed or misinformed voters that are being guided by the elected officials and their media of choice on the issues. We have extremely low turnout and engagement among the electorate. We have seen a reduction in democratic principles from our government in recent years. We are seeing strong evidence of potential undue influence in what is supposed to be the non-political branch. We have politicians choosing their constituents rather than voters choosing their politicians.

There is a lot going on that is a concern as someone that favors liberal democratic principles. I again point to the two quotes in my signature.

Pretty much this.

The United States is in trouble for myriad reasons. None of which are contained in the OP. And seems to cling to American Exceptionalism and watch as we fall behind other developed countries in metrics that matter like income inequality, health care, child and maternal mortality and education.

With the division and culture war driven largely by one of our two major political parties, I don't see the atmosphere improving anytime soon.

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2023, 06:40 PM)Synric Wrote: A vast majority of voters believe politics is only the presidential election. No one even knows who their local politicians are and where the money they do get is being spent. We need to focus more on our communities. Ignore the information war change starts at home.

People know local politicians now that the national talking heads have let them know that people who run their local schools are pedophile groomers.  Local schoolboard meetings and elections have gone from something no one knows about to something that requires police presence and gets a lot of views on the livestream.

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 06:44 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Does this same logic apply to you? Other than biological sex classification at birth - which is merely a label given to a set of anatomical, hormonal, and genetic attributes - what objective method could I use to determine you are who / what you identify as; in terms of gender, sexuality and preferences?

Biology is reality and was that way for millions of years until about five minutes ago.

You're claiming that there is no such thing as objective reality. 

If I'm wrong, what is a woman? 

[*Nately120*]

We aren't the only country acknowledging LGBTQ etc rights, though.  Are we postulating that the the USA, Canada, most of South America, Europe and South America will fall while the Middle East, Africa, and the Eastern countries will assert themselves?

We're actually pretty slow on the LGBTQ train, maybe we'll get to watch Europe fall first.  Africa and the Middle East...from shithole countries to new world powers, I guess.

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 08:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We aren't the only country acknowledging LGBTQ etc rights, though.  Are we postulating that the the USA, Canada, most of South America, Europe and South America will fall while the Middle East, Africa, and the Eastern countries will assert themselves?

We're actually pretty slow on the LGBTQ train, maybe we'll get to watch Europe fall first.  Africa and the Middle East...from shithole countries to new world powers, I guess.

Do those countries have illegal immigrants that cost them at least 150.7 BILLION DOLLARS a year?

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2023, 08:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Do those countries have illegal immigrants that cost them at least 150.7 BILLION DOLLARS a year?

Hey now, you're the one who hammered home the role of trans rights in our downfall and I'm asking about that.

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 08:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hey now, you're the one who hammered home the role of trans rights in our downfall and I'm asking about that.

I said it played a role, and it's about morality, indoctrinating our kids, and the overall mental health of the country in that aspect.

[KillerGoose]

(06-22-2023, 08:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I said it played a role, and it's about morality, indoctrinating our kids, and the overall mental health of the country in that aspect.

I would argue that transgenderism is very, very low on the list of problems in the country right now, whether real or perceived. The incredibly vast wealth disparity that continues to grow is very high on the list as people are struggling to afford healthcare, homes, vehicles etc. is causing incredible amounts of stress and sadness. Mental health issues are very prevalent, absolutely. Illegal immigration is an issue that needs a resolution. Balancing the budget to remove the deficit. Fighting climate change. 

All of these, if we could dampen the polarization in the country right now, could be debated honestly and we could find a reasonable path forward that would improve the lives of our citizens and get the country moving forward in what I think most reasonable people would say is a positive direction. 

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2023, 08:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I said it played a role, and it's about morality, indoctrinating our kids, and the overall mental health of the country in that aspect.

Well screening for and treating mental illness is something that is too expensive and socially-taboo to be solved any time soon, unfortunately.  I still find the whole idea of teachers indoctrinating kids to be a bit farfetched since I can't imagine any teacher I had convincing me to radically alter my mindset and/or have my penis removed.  

I think people vastly overestimate how much kids actually listen to teachers, but I may have just gone to schools where teachers were pretty much ignored and tolerated.  Hell, I went to a catholic school where I was ordered to pray and believe in god an all that jazz and I've always been pretty "meh" about all that stuff.  

[*michaelsean*]

We aren’t in trouble. Been through way worse and we’ve had people point out how it’s really real this time.

[Belsnickel]

(06-22-2023, 09:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: We aren’t in trouble. Been through way worse and we’ve had people point out how it’s really real this time.

We haven't seen division this severe since the antebellum period. That's what concerns me.

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 09:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well screening for and treating mental illness is something that is too expensive and socially-taboo to be solved any time soon, unfortunately.  I still find the whole idea of teachers indoctrinating kids to be a bit farfetched since I can't imagine any teacher I had convincing me to radically alter my mindset and/or have my penis removed.  

I think people vastly overestimate how much kids actually listen to teachers, but I may have just gone to schools where teachers were pretty much ignored and tolerated.  Hell, I went to a catholic school where I was ordered to pray and believe in god an all that jazz and I've always been pretty "meh" about all that stuff.  

You don't think parading around little kids with rainbow flags and telling them they're the opposite sex if they feel different doesn't impact them?

I know some teachers have been fired for it but you can still see videos online of teachers telling kids things like that and who knows how much goes unreported because the kids are too young to speak up or know what they're being taught.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2023, 09:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You don't think parading around little kids with rainbow flags and telling them they're the opposite sex if they feel different doesn't impact them?

I know some teachers have been fired for it but you can still see videos online of teachers telling kids things like that and who knows how much goes unreported because the kids are too young to speak up or know what they're being taught.

Do you think telling little kids that if they don't do as they are told they will suffer in pain for all eternity doesn't impact them?  Especially when THOSE are the people who are ACTUALLY abusing children, not trans people?

[BFritz21]

(06-22-2023, 10:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: Do you think telling little kids that if they don't do as they are told they will suffer in pain for all eternity doesn't impact them?  Especially when THOSE are the people who are ACTUALLY abusing children, not trans people?

You're taking it to the extreme.

I'm saying that kids shouldn't be introduced to this kind of delusional ideology at all.

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2023, 09:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You don't think parading around little kids with rainbow flags and telling them they're the opposite sex if they feel different doesn't impact them?

I know some teachers have been fired for it but you can still see videos online of teachers telling kids things like that and who knows how much goes unreported because the kids are too young to speak up or know what they're being taught.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "impacts them."  I'm not sure if you think tolerating/accepting/celebrating LGBTQ folks is bad, or if you actually think that you'd be gay today if a teacher subjected you to this stuff.

(06-22-2023, 10:07 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm saying that kids shouldn't be introduced to this kind of delusional ideology at all.

Unless their parents want, I assume.