To me, this is not a political biased question. It is a question of irresponsible journalism possibly causing harm all around the world. Within minutes of the explosion at the hospital in Gaza, the NYT reported a direct Hamas narrative, the Gaza hospital was hit by a rocket from Israel. Why not get the facts on the guilty party versus a rush (incorrect) to judgment.
Then the squad used their bad reporting and caused a ton of harm, not only in the US, but the world. We know Talib hates Jewish people so know her motivation. But why would NYT and CNN report as fact anything Hamas says without 100% verification.
There are protests all over the world due to propaganda from Hamas using US congress women, CNN and NYT as their mouth piece.
There appears to be indisputable evidence the rockets were fired from within Gaza, but sadly the damage is done and poor journalism is destroying the Israel reputation.
Lives will be lost in the coming days and weeks, some because of very bad journalism.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(10-18-2023, 06:32 PM)pally Wrote: You seem to be okay when Trump, Fox, Republicans, etc repeat false information such as a rigged and stolen election.
Can you ever answer a question? You have Trump derangement syndrome. There are many ways to steal or rig and election. I don't recall you being upset with HRC and her recent comments about 2016 election being stolen. Or Stacey Abrams from Georgia who still whines about stolen elections
I pray no one from your family is raped or beheaded by a Hamas member. I pray our media does not purposely spread disinformation leading the next World War. Trump's comments have zero impact on the world, it is solely a US issue.
Spreading lies from Hamas is throwing gasoline on an a firestorm that has been brewing for decades. If you don't see the difference, God help you.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
You get emotional whenever it is pointed out that the known liars are those you support and believe. You support lying in the media simply by your obsessive devotion to Fox News...afterall they did settle a lawsuit for nearly $900 million because of the election lies. So are you against media lies or only lies that don't support your political positions?
1) Hillary never claimed a "rigged" or "stolen" election. She alleged Russian interference. Trump who won in 2016 claimed it was rigged because he lost the popular vote. Millions of "illegal" votes were counted
2) Stacy Abhams alleged correctly that as Secretary of State of Georgia Kemp did everything in his power to disenfranchise people who he considered potential Democratic voters.
3) What they alleged about their elections is irrelevant to your question.
4) This topic wasn't about Hamas or their actions...it was about media truthfulness. Fox lies...you don't care. Everyone else and the sky is falling
5) you have a long history of changing the subject or throwing in irrelevant information whenever you don't like the response to a question.
(10-18-2023, 07:16 PM)pally Wrote: You get emotional whenever it is pointed out that the known liars are those you support and believe. You support lying in the media simply by your obsessive devotion to Fox News...afterall they did settle a lawsuit for nearly $900 million because of the election lies. So are you against media lies or only lies that don't support your political positions?
1) Hillary never claimed a "rigged" or "stolen" election. She alleged Russian interference. Trump who won in 2016 claimed it was rigged because he lost the popular vote. Millions of "illegal" votes were counted
2) Stacy Abhams alleged correctly that as Secretary of State of Georgia Kemp did everything in his power to disenfranchise people who he considered potential Democratic voters.
3) What they alleged about their elections is irrelevant to your question.
4) This topic wasn't about Hamas or their actions...it was about media truthfulness. Fox lies...you don't care. Everyone else and the sky is falling
5) you have a long history of changing the subject or throwing in irrelevant information whenever you don't like the response to a question.
Instead of playing an endless game of "whatabout" with him, maybe actually address his point? I don't care if he's the most partisan adherent to whatever story his preferred side churns out in this board's history (he'd have quite a bit of competition btw). He raises a very valid point. The NYT's instantly published a story on the hospital "bombing" running with the Hamas version of it being the responsibility of the IDF. No waiting, no verifying, just publishing. They've since had to walk this back several times.
Tlaib, who I never thought much of but has revealed herself to be a virulent bigot, has repeated this story publicly, and continues to do so today, despite very convincing evidence that this was not caused by a IDF bomb. It went from the hospital was blown up to the hospital was heavily damaged to now it was an explosion in the parking lot that even left most of the windows nearby intact. No crater, so not an air dropped munition. Tlaib continued to repeat this obvious falsehood, or at the very least a highly probably falsehood, at the protest at the Capitol today.
So Luvnit raises a very good point about high profile members of the government intentionally spreading misinformation. You running from his point and screaming about his own biases doesn't change any of that, it just makes you look obviously afraid of confronting your own
(10-18-2023, 07:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Instead of playing an endless game of "whatabout" with him, maybe actually address his point? I don't care if he's the most partisan adherent to whatever story his preferred side churns out in this board's history (he'd have quite a bit of competition btw). He raises a very valid point. The NYT's instantly published a story on the hospital "bombing" running with the Hamas version of it being the responsibility of the IDF. No waiting, no verifying, just publishing. They've since had to walk this back several times.
Tlaib, who I never thought much of but has revealed herself to be a virulent bigot, has repeated this story publicly, and continues to do so today, despite very convincing evidence that this was not caused by a IDF bomb. It went from the hospital was blown up to the hospital was heavily damaged to now it was an explosion in the parking lot that even left most of the windows nearby intact. No crater, so not an air dropped munition. Tlaib continued to repeat this obvious falsehood, or at the very least a highly probably falsehood, at the protest at the Capitol today.
So Luvnit raises a very good point about high profile members of the government intentionally spreading misinformation. You running from his point and screaming about his own biases doesn't change any of that, it just makes you look obviously afraid of confronting your own
So, I am curious about all of this because I haven't seen any links. What exactly was in the NYT articles? When the bombing took place, I saw and heard reports that there was a bombing and that Hamas was blaming Israel and that workers at the hospital had said they had been targeted in recent days. Then I heard that there was a counter claim from Israel. All reporting that I saw was timely and said that "Hamas said..." or "Israel claims..." None of that reporting is misinformation as it is not stating something as factual. It is stating that this group is claiming it. Some agencies even go so far as to say "we have been unable to independently verify either claim."
So, I am curious as to what exactly was said and how accurate it is to say that what was posted was actually misinformation because there is a difference between stating claims made that are attributed to groups and stating that something happened in a factual manner.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(10-18-2023, 07:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, I am curious about all of this because I haven't seen any links. What exactly was in the NYT articles? When the bombing took place, I saw and heard reports that there was a bombing and that Hamas was blaming Israel and that workers at the hospital had said they had been targeted in recent days. Then I heard that there was a counter claim from Israel. All reporting that I saw was timely and said that "Hamas said..." or "Israel claims..." None of that reporting is misinformation as it is not stating something as factual. It is stating that this group is claiming it. Some agencies even go so far as to say "we have been unable to independently verify either claim."
So, I am curious as to what exactly was said and how accurate it is to say that what was posted was actually misinformation because there is a difference between stating claims made that are attributed to groups and stating that something happened in a factual manner.
If you have the time here's a good news report addressing much of it. I've found Channel 4's news to be the all around best.
As for the New York Times, I've seen varying versions of the following picture.
I know there's some mitigating at the end of the first headline, but you're smart enough to know why that headline is effed up.
As for Tlaib, here's her original Tweet;
Israel just bombed the Baptist Hospital killing 500 Palestinians (doctors, children, patients) just like that. @POTUS this is what happens when you refuse to facilitate a ceasefire & help de-escalate.
For those interested, and not to derail the thread, here is a pretty good Twitter chain that analyzes what likely happened based on data as it comes in. I find some of it more compelling than others, but he appears to be taking pains to be logical using the evidence available.
(10-18-2023, 08:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you have the time here's a good news report addressing much of it. I've found Channel 4's news to be the all around best.
As for the New York Times, I've seen varying versions of the following picture.
I know there's some mitigating at the end of the first headline, but you're smart enough to know why that headline is effed up.
As for Tlaib, here's her original Tweet;
Israel just bombed the Baptist Hospital killing 500 Palestinians (doctors, children, patients) just like that. @POTUS this is what happens when you refuse to facilitate a ceasefire & help de-escalate.
While the first headline is not technically misinformation as what they stated was accurate, taking Hamas' word for anything isn't smart and I would have suggested more qualifying language in the headline. That's just me.
As for Tlaib, the fact that she hasn't course corrected after our own government has stated that the likely source for the explosion was a misfired jihadist rocket is asinine. She should be derided for that. I understand being skeptical of Israeli statements; they are not known for being honest about the whole situation there. However, when you ignore our own intelligence agencies, well, now you're just in Trump territory. And I know Flynn was once head of the DIA and he had at least one-to-many TBIs that caused him to go a little off the rails (sorry, this is on my mind after a conversation I had this weekend with an analyst friend), but generally speaking our intelligence community is very good at what they do.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
I'd complain about the damage the for-profit "news" organizations do by giving their consumer base exactly what flavor of bullshit they want, but I don't want to sound like some sort of big-government commie.
(10-18-2023, 08:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: While the first headline is not technically misinformation as what they stated was accurate, taking Hamas' word for anything isn't smart and I would have suggested more qualifying language in the headline. That's just me.
Bel, you little mynx, that is the epitome of a false news headline. It's like a headline that reads, "John Smith is a pedophile, source say." Especially, as you correctly point out, I wouldn't take Hamas at their word about literally anything. That headline is setting the narrative before you read one word of the article.
Quote:As for Tlaib, the fact that she hasn't course corrected after our own government has stated that the likely source for the explosion was a misfired jihadist rocket is asinine. She should be derided for that. I understand being skeptical of Israeli statements; they are not known for being honest about the whole situation there. However, when you ignore our own intelligence agencies, well, now you're just in Trump territory. And I know Flynn was once head of the DIA and he had at least one-to-many TBIs that caused him to go a little off the rails (sorry, this is on my mind after a conversation I had this weekend with an analyst friend), but generally speaking our intelligence community is very good at what they do.
I used to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think Omar has proven herself to be an obvious antisemite, she casually traffics in far too many antisemitic tropes for me to believe otherwise. Plus, if that's what she's comfortable saying out loud then imagine what she thinks but doesn't say. Now I think Tlaib might be the worse of the two. It'll be interesting to see how much blowback she gets from this. My guess is little to none except on the conservative media circuit.
(10-18-2023, 08:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd complain about the damage the for-profit "news" organizations do by giving their consumer base exactly what flavor of bullshit they want, but I don't want to sound like some sort of big-government commie.
As someone who almost exclusively relies on non-profit news sources...yeah.
The only for-profit news media I consume is the stuff that is intended to be comedic takes on the news.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
I don’t trust any corporate news org at this point. I don’t know where that leaves us when it comes to receiving timely and accurate information. I’m donedonedone with the attempted guilt trips, perpetrated mostly by the Left. TBS, i have caught Fox is some lies, especially Karl Rove.
What Hamas did is unforgivable. Their charter specifically targets Jews for death. I have no use for them. Time for eradication. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
I feel for the innocent caught in a war zone. Now is not the time to go wobbly.
What puzzles me greatly about the region is the Arab world’s callousness towards their “brothers” in Palestine. Those folks are being used as pawns by the Arab nations, AFAICT.
Curious that the alleged far right white supremacists support Israel, while the Left are becoming more and more totalitarian by the day.
What’s wrong with that NYT headline? They clearly say who made the claim. In the headline.
I really doubt all the Arab countries use American news source as their go to. Sure some see it. But like us most of us don’t see their news sources. I would guess the headlines from their news organizations were much worse than ours.
As for Talib making baseless claims. She needs to stfu. As far as I’m concerned Talib and Cori Bush rank right up there with Jim Jordan and George Santos and our country would be better off with them cleaning bathrooms at Walmart.
My OP was only meant to point out the disinformation being put out within minutes (not hours) Israel strike on hospital in Gaza kills 100's. Then Talib uses the misinformation and tweets it as fact to the world. Now we have American embassies facing violent protests in the middle east. We have a protest at the capital where Talib doubled down and blamed Israel.
The NYT has walked back their reporting, but the match was lit. Talib expands the propaganda versus setting the record straight to protesters today, she refuses to ever accept the facts.
Do you think the CNN (international news desk) and NYT retractions will make the damage go away. Hamas and other terrorists within Gaza are using them as human shields. My guess is they still think Israel attacked the hospital because CNN and NYT said they did as well as a US Congress Woman. The answer by many is to ignore it. That would be a huge mistake and exactly what a terrorist organization like Hamas wants.
This is a world disinformation article, a war of words Hamas wins when they bomb their own, but can get the media and politicians to say Israel did it. It amazes me people dismiss women being raped, kidnapped, babies killed and in some cases beheaded, babies kidnapped. People dancing and celebrating peace one minute and dead or kidnapped the next. They were not soldiers, they were citizens just like many of us. I hope people realize what happened in Israel can happen in the US. I hope people realize the 2nd amendment may save lives if a Hamas, Isis or terror group attacks the wrong family.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(10-18-2023, 09:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: What’s wrong with that NYT headline? They clearly say who made the claim. In the headline.
Precisely. They used the claim of a known terrorist agency in their headline. Here would be an appropriate headline, "Explosion at Gazan Hospital, Cause Unknown". Then, in the actual article, you can mention that Hamas claimed it was the IDF, which should obviously be followed by a statement that they offered no proof of such claims. As I said earlier, the headline in question sets the narrative for the whole article without you having to read a single word. How many people only read the headline? Quite a lot.
Quote:I really doubt all the Arab countries use American news source as their go to. Sure some see it. But like us most of us don’t see their news sources. I would guess the headlines from their news organizations were much worse than ours.
No, they don't "use it", in the manner you're referring to. But they definitely use it to justify their own perceptions. "See, even the Americans agree that the IDF bombed the hospital". Several US news outlets handed Hamas a huge propaganda victory over this issue. Even if irrefutable evidence comes out that contradicts Hamas, which largely has already happened, the damage is done. I learned something very early in my career, people tend to believe the first thing they hear on a subject, especially if they're already inclined to believe it. It takes a lot of convincing and evidence to change someone's position, not nearly as much to create it in the first place. You'll still get a large number of people who will believe Hamas, but why would you want to create more of them?
Quote:As for Talib making baseless claims. She needs to stfu. As far as I’m concerned Talib and Cori Bush rank right up there with Jim Jordan and George Santos and our country would be better off with them cleaning bathrooms at Walmart.
Can't argue with that. You can add MTG, Boebert, AOC and Omar to that list as well. But Boebert can clean my bathrooms instead.
I've been watching Jake Tapper and Erin Burnett since this has all started, and all I've heard them say is pro Isreal stuffs???? Literally trashing protesters for Palestinians on campuses. Tapper calling Hamas cowards etc.
Granted....I don't know who Erin Burnett is. She is just on during the times I flip the TV on lol. Also, one more point....I haven't watched cable news in years.....except Fox (more for entertainment purposes).
Speaking of news stories, here's a good one. The US has been able to quickly determine a world conflict matter in a very short period of time, while they still cannot determine who brought and left cocaine in the one of the most secure and surveilled locations in the world..
Quote:Hamas and Israel traded blame over a deadly explosion at a hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday.
The White House said that after its own analysis, it concluded Israel is not responsible.
An official said this current assessment is based off imagery and open source information.
The current US assessment is that Israel isn't to blame for Tuesday's deadly explosion at a hospital in Gaza, a White House official said on Wednesday following an independent analysis of the incident. The assessment comes as President Joe Biden's makes a high-stakes visit to the war zone.
"While we continue to collect information, our current assessment, based on analysis of overhead imagery, intercepts and open source information, is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday," White House National Security Council Spokesperson Adrienne Watson said in an official statement shared to X, the social media platform formally known as Twitter.
After a deadly blast occurred at the Al-Ahli hospital in Gaza City Tuesday, Hamas immediately accused Israeli forces of carrying out an airstrike against the facility. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF), however, pushed back on the accusation and asserted after an investigation that the explosion was caused by a "failed" rocket launch by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group.
Israel presented evidence that included video, a purported audio call, and satellite imagery.
Israel denies Gaza hospital strike and claims it has evidence Islamic Jihads fired barrage of rockets
Biden, who met with top Israeli officials including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, told reporters that data provided to him by the Pentagon leads him to believe that Israel was not responsible for the incident. NBC and ABC News, citing American officials, reported that an independent US assessment of the explosion indicated that the culprit to be a failed Palestinian rocket rather than an Israeli airstrike.
"But the point is this — that I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. And based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not — not you. But there's a lot of people out there who are not sure," the president said in Israel Wednesday.
Independent analysts also said in social media commentary that images of the damage at the hospital are inconsistent with what would be expected from an Israeli bombing. The lack of a massive crater and little structural damage to cars in the immediate vicinity are telling.
Hundreds of people are reported to have been killed in the explosion at the healthcare facility, which came just hours before Biden was expected to leave the US for a day-long trip to Israel and Jordan, the latter of which was canceled.
In the wake of the incident, which was condemned by many countries across the Middle East, protesters throughout the region took to the streets in anger, prompting advisories from US embassies in Lebanon and Jordan.
Tensions in the area exploded on October 7 when Hamas launched a series of surprise terror attacks across southern Israel, massacring at least 1,300 people and injuring over 4,000 more. Israel immediately declared war on the militant group and began pounding the Gaza Strip with bombs, which have killed over 3,000 Palestinians and injured over 12,000 more, according to the latest United Nations figures.
Human rights organizations say the ongoing aerial bombardment has worsened an already dire humanitarian situation in the coastal enclave. Israeli officials assert that it is the precursor to an ground invasion.
Concerned about the possibility that the war could expand into a regional conflict, the US has moved military assets to the area, including two Navy carrier strike groups and and Air Force air assets. The move serves as a two-pronged message, signaling Washington's support for Israel and deterring other factions — like Iran or the Tehran-backed Hezbollah militant group in Lebanon — from opening up a second front.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
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