Is it OK for biological males to compete against women?

[CJD]

(06-22-2023, 03:12 AM)treee Wrote: There are studies that show bringing hormone levels of a transfemme (people born as a male with a predominantly feminine identity or gender expression) person to be more in line with your average female does eliminate some specific advantages even after they've gone through male puberty. That said it is still an area of active study and is far from settled. I predict that once the dust settles, the advantage of male puberty will vary from sport to sport. I agree with Pally that it should be up to the individual sports leagues and that it is a waste of congressional time to try to legislate it in such a hamfisted way.

I'm sure the capital class loves us squabbling over this instead of building working class solidarity though.

This is how I feel too.

There are so few trans athletes that they can literally be reviewed and approved (or denied) by a board of people as necessary for any particular league. Some trans athletes may have too high of an advantage relative to their cis counterparts, some may not. Trying to make a one size fits all law for such a small percentage of people is ridiculous.

I understand people who feel uneasy about the topic. It's a touchy subject to be sure.

My problem is with the politicians and tv show hosts who use it to manipulate people into voting for politicians that will do nothing for them other than solve the "major problems" that they essentially invented out of whole cloth. It's a waste of time, money and, quite frankly, outrage. This is not worth being upset about or determining who you vote for about.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-21-2023, 06:54 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I don't think it's a good idea but it's a minor problem. It concerns maybe 100 people on Earth.

While you're right, I'd think the number is more like 100,000 that can actually make a financial and career impact, rather than 100.

Quadrupling down like others have, that it's up to the leagues and organisations to do so.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 09:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'd trust my wife in a bathroom with a transwoman or gay man more than them on the street with some of the neanderthal "real men" I've seen.

Cool bro.  I have a daughter.  She should not be competing against males nor have to share a bathroom/shower with a male.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 09:47 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: While you're right, I'd think the number is more like 100,000 that can actually make a financial and career impact, rather than 100.

Quadrupling down like others have, that it's up to the leagues and organisations to do so.

Males should not be in female sports, their bathrooms or their locker rooms.  Period.  Hard stop.   It's amazing watching people defend/support this insanity.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 09:40 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is how I feel too.

There are so few trans athletes that they can literally be reviewed and approved (or denied) by a board of people as necessary for any particular league. Some trans athletes may have too high of an advantage relative to their cis counterparts, some may not. Trying to make a one size fits all law for such a small percentage of people is ridiculous.

I understand people who feel uneasy about the topic. It's a touchy subject to be sure.

My problem is with the politicians and tv show hosts who use it to manipulate people into voting for politicians that will do nothing for them other than solve the "major problems" that they essentially invented out of whole cloth. It's a waste of time, money and, quite frankly, outrage. This is not worth being upset about or determining who you vote for about.

You actually think theses boards who appear to be made up of some pretty left/far left members are going to be able to determine an athletes ability to compete compared to the females?  It's not possible, even if they were completely unbiased.

No males in female sports, bathrooms, locker rooms.  Period.

[CJD]

(06-22-2023, 09:56 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: You actually think theses boards who appear to be made up of some pretty left/far left members are going to be able to determine an athletes ability to compete compared to the females?

Yes

[GMDino]

(06-22-2023, 09:49 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Cool bro.  I have a daughter.  She should not be competing against males nor have to share a bathroom/shower with a male.

I have a daughter.  She competed against males when they were kids.  They didn't shower together.  Everyone lived.

Cool.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 09:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yes

That's funny.

[CJD]

(06-22-2023, 10:06 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: That's funny.

It is, just not for the reason you think haha.

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-22-2023, 09:56 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: You actually think theses boards who appear to be made up of some pretty left/far left members are going to be able to determine an athletes ability to compete compared to the females?  It's not possible, even if they were completely unbiased.

No males in female sports, bathrooms, locker rooms.  Period.

It should be first the olympic board to take a stance on that and then national leagues applying these rules. 

Are the Olympic board and the canadian curling league full of far left people ? I don't know.

[GMDino]

I've said this before during discussions about these topics but personally I feel the biggest problem is that a lot of "real men" can separate their sex drive from their decision making.

They think that if THEY were in a female locker room all they'd care about is copping a feel and staring at women so everyone who has a penis must be the same even if they are gay or trans.  That's why they think the trans men are "faking" just to get into bathrooms even though the number of incidents like that can be counted on one hand over the last decade or so. (Approx)

I still believe most of us aren't just animals going around to fill our base needs and instincts but rather thinking, rational beings.  

Men (mostly, some women) get so hung up on sex (the act) they can't get out of their own way to look at the situation.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2023, 10:05 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The competing against, locker rooms and bathrooms all tie together.  Where are the dudes taking a shower, going to the bathroom and changing while on a female team?

I wasn't saying you were defending.  It was a general statement.

There is no way to quantify someone's physical ability and potential risk to female players by some hormone number or level or whatever other bullshit these people are trying to implement.

I'll pipe the **** when feel like it.  

This is the most insane thing I  have seen in the well over 4 decades I have been alive.  Men can't turn into women and vice versa.  Complete and utter insanity.

Yeah, gay and trans men are surely going to be treated better in the male bathrooms.  The "real men" would be more afraid of someone "looking at them" than the women would be.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 10:02 AM)GMDino Wrote: I have a daughter.  She competed against males when they were kids.  They didn't shower together.  Everyone lived.

Cool.

Good for you.

I don't have a problem with little kids playing sports together mixed.  Little kids. 

[CJD]

(06-22-2023, 10:09 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: It should be first the olympic board to take a stance on that and then national leagues applying these rules. 

Are the Olympic board and the canadian curling league full of far left people ? I don't know.

I have a feeling Mickey's definition of "far left" is a pretty broad one hahaha. Probably encapsulates everyone who isn't on OAN, Fox News, PragerU and Breitbart.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2023, 10:17 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Good for you.

I don't have a problem with little kids playing sports together mixed.  Little kids. 

So what age is your cutoff and why?

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 10:09 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: It should be first the olympic board to take a stance on that and then national leagues applying these rules. 

Are the Olympic board and the canadian curling league full of far left people ? I don't know.

I probably should not have said far left or left or whatever I said.  I think that is a possibility, but i'm sure there are also reasonable people who are simply scared of getting canceled/called out/protested, etc. if they go against the canceling of women.

[XenoMorph]

(06-22-2023, 09:52 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Males should not be in female sports, their bathrooms or their locker rooms.  Period.  Hard stop.   It's amazing watching people defend/support this insanity.

Correct this is why its called FEMALE sports....  not a co-ed league.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 10:09 AM)GMDino Wrote: I've said this before during discussions about these topics but personally I feel the biggest problem is that a lot of "real men" can separate their sex drive from their decision making.

They think that if THEY were in a female locker room all they'd care about is copping a feel and staring at women so everyone who has a penis must be the same even if they are gay or trans.  That's why they think the trans men are "faking" just to get into bathrooms even though the number of incidents like that can be counted on one hand over the last decade or so. (Approx)

I still believe most of us aren't just animals going around to fill our base needs and instincts but rather thinking, rational beings.  

Men (mostly, some women) get so hung up on sex (the act) they can't get out of their own way to look at the situation.

(06-22-2023, 10:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, gay and trans men are surely going to be treated better in the male bathrooms.  The "real men" would be more afraid of someone "looking at them" than the women would be.

What are you talking about?  I am against this because it's simply unfair/dangerous to girls/women in general.  Also women should not be put in a position of having to deal with a male in their personal space.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2023, 10:25 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: What are you talking about?  I am against this because it's simply unfair/dangerous to girls/women in general.  Also women should not be put in a position of having to deal with a male in their personal space.

I'm talking about how most people (mostly men) think that if there is a transman in a woman's bathroom they may/will attack a woman mainly because those same "real men" can't separate their own sexual drives from the rest of the world.

Do "real men" want gay men in the showers with them?  Probably not because they might "want" them or "look" at them.

I'd wager more gay or trans people have been assaulted by men when they are using the "right" shower/bathroom than women have been assaulted by them being in the "wrong" bathroom.

We actually agree about women should have to be in positions where a male is in their personal space.  I just extend that to everywhere and understand they their greatest risks come from the "real men" and not the trans or gay people.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-22-2023, 10:18 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I have a feeling Mickey's definition of "far left" is a pretty broad one hahaha. Probably encapsulates everyone who isn't on OAN, Fox News, PragerU and Breitbart.

Nah man, lol, I've never watched OAN, Breitbart, have no idea what PragerU is and I have watched FOX, CNN and MSNBC.

I have not watched news in probably 2-3 years.  I have lots of hobbies that keep me busy.