(06-22-2023, 10:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: So what age is your cutoff and why?
Me personally, I would say 3rd-4th grade maybe. Just basing that on how coordinated, strong and athletic my kids were at that age. Once a male reaches a point where they start to become physically dominant compared to females. Obviously everyone develops differently, but if I had to put a hard cap on it that is where I would start. No males in female locker rooms, showers, bathrooms. Basically anywhere a female should have privacy males should not be allowed.
(06-22-2023, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm talking about how most people (mostly men) think that if there is a transman in a woman's bathroom they may/will attack a woman mainly because those same "real men" can't separate their own sexual drives from the rest of the world.
Do "real men" want gay men in the showers with them? Probably not because they might "want" them or "look" at them.
I'd wager more gay or trans people have been assaulted by men when they are using the "right" shower/bathroom than women have been assaulted by them being in the "wrong" bathroom.
We actually agree about women should have to be in positions where a male is in their personal space. I just extend that to everywhere and understand they their greatest risks come from the "real men" and not the trans or gay people.
That's not what I am currently talking about, but there is no way to know if a dude dressed up as a woman actually believes he is a women or if he is doing it for nefarious reasons.
Not sure what you mean by "real men" or if these "real men" care about showering with a gay dude. Any "real man" who picks on/assaults someone because of their sexual/gender preference is not much of a "real man". I personally don't care if I share a public shower with a gay dude.
I have no idea who has been assaulted more and by whom.
(06-22-2023, 11:09 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Me personally, I would say 3rd-4th grade maybe. Just basing that on how coordinated, strong and athletic my kids were at that age. Once a male reaches a point where they start to become physically dominant compared to females. Obviously everyone develops differently, but if I had to put a hard cap on it that is where I would start. No males in female locker rooms, showers, bathrooms. Basically anywhere a female should have privacy males should not be allowed.
Is that fair? Girls develop faster so as soon as boys reach the age where the gap narrows and they pull ahead it's time to segregate by gender? Your approach grooms children to normalize one way femdom.
(06-22-2023, 11:19 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: That's not what I am currently talking about, but there is no way to know if a dude dressed up as a woman actually believes he is a women or if he is doing it for nefarious reasons.
Not sure what you mean by "real men" or if these "real men" care about showering with a gay dude. I personally don't care if I share a public shower with a gay dude.
I have no idea who has been assaulted more and by whom.
Because it (almost) never happens happens. That's why this fear that some "dude dressed up as a woman" is somehow faking it just to attack women is moot.
There are more stories about real men attacking gays just because than because a trans person was in the "wrong" bathroom.
It's fear mongering because they are different than then norm and not based on any real numbers or facts.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(06-22-2023, 11:09 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Me personally, I would say 3rd-4th grade maybe. Just basing that on how coordinated, strong and athletic my kids were at that age. Once a male reaches a point where they start to become physically dominant compared to females. Obviously everyone develops differently, but if I had to put a hard cap on it that is where I would start. No males in female locker rooms, showers, bathrooms. Basically anywhere a female should have privacy males should not be allowed.
Jebus.
We had coed soccer until at least 8th grade.
There was a girl (senior) playing for our local HS football team this past season.
I think you're heavily under estimating how girls can compete with boys.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(06-22-2023, 11:19 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Is that fair? Girls develop faster so as soon as boys reach the age where the gap narrows and they pull ahead it's time to segregate by gender? Your approach grooms children to normalize one way femdom.
Or we can just have female, male and co-ed sports and people/parents can decide for themselves what to play/have their kids play.
(06-22-2023, 11:25 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Or we can just have female, male and co-ed sports and people/parents can decide for themselves what to play/have their kids play.
Great. Tell conservatives to stop making this a top political talking point and we can get back to dealing with stuff that isn't hypothetical. I don't like hearing the government talk in official capacity about genitals so much.
There was a girl (senior) playing for our local HS football team this past season.
I think you're heavily under estimating how girls can compete with boys.
We had co ed sports here until 12th grade. Dudes would pay good money now to have the experience of being tackled by a chick on the soccer pitch that I got for free.
Oh im sorry, we aren't allowed to enjoy this stuff, we can only fear it.
There was a girl (senior) playing for our local HS football team this past season.
I think you're heavily under estimating how girls can compete with boys.
Well I actually agree with you. That is a co-ed team.
A women's swim team is not a co-ed team. A men's baseball team is not a co-ed team. I have ZERO issues with actual co-ed teams where everyone going in knows it's a co-ed team and decides for themselves to play.
(06-22-2023, 11:22 AM)GMDino Wrote: Because it (almost) never happens happens. That's why this fear that some "dude dressed up as a woman" is somehow faking it just to attack women is moot.
There are more stories about real men attacking gays just because than because a trans person was in the "wrong" bathroom.
It's fear mongering because they are different than then norm and not based on any real numbers or facts.
Ok. Not what I am talking about. Or do you think I am saying women should not have males in their private spaces because they might get attacked? Cause that is not what I am saying.
(06-22-2023, 11:36 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Well I actually agree with you. That is a co-ed team.
A women's swim team is not a co-ed team. A men's baseball team is not a co-ed team. I have ZERO issues with actual co-ed teams where everyone going in knows it's a co-ed team and decides for themselves to play.
So much of this, not just saying you specifically, treats trans people as being deceptive or conniving about this stuff and it embarrassing or being used against "normal folks."
The comedy or aversion in popular culture revolves around being tricked this way. I just don't see people being allowed to be more transparent about it, though.
(06-22-2023, 11:29 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Great. Tell conservatives to stop making this a top political talking point and we can get back to dealing with stuff that isn't hypothetical. I don't like hearing the government talk in official capacity about genitals so much.
Great, tell Progressives to stop trying to defend/allow males into female sports and into their private areas.
I don't either, but what else can be done when leagues are too Progressive or scared to push back against males in female sports and in their private spaces?
(06-22-2023, 11:34 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We had co ed sports here until 12th grade. Dudes would pay good money now to have the experience of being tackled by a chick on the soccer pitch that I got for free.
Oh im sorry, we aren't allowed to enjoy this stuff, we can only fear it.
Who is scared of a co-ed team? You and the females knew it was a co-ed team when you signed up, correct?
(06-22-2023, 11:42 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Great, tell Progressives to stop trying to defend/allow males into female sports and into their private areas.
I don't either, but what else can be done when leagues are to Progressive or scared to push back against males in female sports and in their private spaces?
I told you what id do. If i had a daughter who lost to a trans woman we'd be sending people like you a go fund me link.
(06-22-2023, 11:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I told you what id do. If i had a daughter who lost to a trans woman we'd be sending people like you a go fund me link.
(06-22-2023, 11:49 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I have no idea how many are doing it to be able to compete at a higher level. As far as Lia Thomas for example, he was not very good as a male swimmer, decides he is a women and poof, he is a top male competing against other females. Such an accomplishment (sarcasm). He should be ashamed of himself.
Lia Thomas, the first transgender woman to win at the NCAA Swimming Finals, is at the center of controversy. In fact, it is her very victory that has given rise to controversy the world over.
Up until last year, Thomas was competing in the men’s division, before undergoing a yearlong transitioning process. Thus, she competed in the female category this year and has won resoundingly.
Consequently, many athletes in her division took offense to it. Moreover, popular stars and athletes from across the globe are on the fence about the situation as well.
What rank did Lia Thomas finish at in the men’s division?
Lia Thomas, the transgender swimmer from the University of Pennsylvania became one of the top athletes in the NCAA female division. Last weekend, she reached the finals of three events in the NCAA championships.
Moreover, she didn’t compete in the 1650-yard freestyle but had one of the USA’s top times in the event. In fact, in the 500-yard freestyle event, Thomas secured the fastest swim time in the nation.
During the last season in the NCAA, Lia Thomas competed in the men’s division, in 2018-19. There, she ranked 554th in the 200-yd freestyle, and she is now fifth in the event this year. Furthermore, in the 500-yd freestyle, Thomas was 65th in the country. Now, she ranked first place in the event this year. Finally, in the 1650 freestyle, she is now eighth in the nation, as opposed to 32nd in the men’s division. American Rapper Boosie Badazz Attacks Champion Transgender Swimmer Lia Thomas
[url=https://www.essentiallysports.com/us-sports-news-swimming-news-american-rapper-boosie-badazz-attacks-champion-transgender-swimmer-lia-thomas?utm_campaign=internal_links&utm_medium=dive_deeper&utm_source=website/]Interestingly, in the 100 freestyle event, Thomas’ best time in the men’s division was 47.15. Now, at the NCAA Championships, she posted a time of 47.37, which reflects little to no change. Virginia Tech athlete released a statement condemning Thomas’ participation in the NCAA Championships
Reka Gyorgy, who finished seventeenth in the NCAA championships, scathingly critiqued the NCAA for allowing Thomas’ participation.
via Getty
Gyorgy called Lia Thomas’ case “a problem in our sport right now”. In fact, she feels that Lia’s participation is “hurting athletes, especially female swimmers”.
Despite supporting Lia in her right to transition as well as swim, Gyorgy called out the NCAA for letting Thomas participate. She critiqued “the NCAA rules that allow her (Lia) to compete against us, who are biologically women,” Gyorgy’s statement read.
Thus, she asked the NCAA to change the rules that allow for transgender athletes to compete, for the overall betterment of the sport. How much do you agree with Gyorgy’s statement?
She's ranked number 1 in exactly one category.
I mean the woman who complained at the end there was 17th in the race. So she would have been 16th?
Again, one person. One ranking. Improved? Yep. Enough to have laws passed to stop it? I don't think so. She went by the NCAA rules.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(06-22-2023, 11:49 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I have no idea how many are doing it to be able to compete at a higher level. As far as Lia Thomas for example, he was not very good as a male swimmer, decides he is a women and poof, he is a top male competing against other females. Such an accomplishment (sarcasm). He should be ashamed of himself.
Others have made points that it should be addressed on a case by case basis on the local level. Getting the loud and exceedingly unpopular and incendiary national politicians involved is going to do more harm than good.
I file this under common american oddness. We have a thousand ways to deal with and normalize violence but we are still ultra squeamish about the human body and sex and all that stuff. I view this stuff with a grey area, but then politicians who have made it clear they are only here to cause chaos and enrich themselves by sowing infighting among the peasants weigh in and I'm inclined to lean away from them.
And in usual internet fashion a bunch of dudes are sitting around talking about protecting or promoting women and girls. White Knights are we.
And I live in rural P.A. and around here even today people complain about schools that bring in black kids to fortify their school sports teams. It isn't against the rules but still, shame on them.
Lots of interesting, and predictable, responses here. Let's establish one significant and unarguable fact. The changes to a body naturally occurring during male puberty are permanent. Such changes include skeletal growth and cardiovascular capacity, neither of which will be impacted by HRT, but both of which give a huge advantage in the vast majority of sports. It has been argued that this topic only affects "100 people", which is as demonstrably false as it is silly. There are separate sports categories for men and women for a significant reason, the vast majority of women cannot even being to compete against men. As Serena Williams, unarguably the greatest female tennis player of all time, stated, she would get annihilated playing in the men's division. Don't take my word for it;
And Serena Williams would likely beat the brakes off of most of the posters in this thread in a fight. Definitely several of the left leaning posters.
Also, the argument that this isn't a big deal because it doesn't impact that many people is absurd. It's essentially admitting that this is an injustice, but it's a small injustice, therefore not worth discussing. I can guarantee you that the women directly affected by this do not see it that way. As for them using women's locker rooms, again why do we have separate locker rooms for men and women at all? A penis is a penis, regardless of the gender identity of the person it is attached to. If you don't think biological women are entitled to their own spaces then simply own your misogyny and state that.
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