Is it TRANSPHOBIC if lesbians refuse to date a trans woman?

[BengalYankee]

Just a question folks and moderator, this is not a statement nor an opinion.

Reference
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/transgender-woman-with-a-beard-is-now-a-lesbian-is-it-transphobic-if-lesbians-refuse-to-date-a-trans-woman/ar-AA1dqv0C?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=50839c41d89c46bd9a51fc4a868e6503&ei=49

[CJD]

I think it depends on how they refuse.

"Sorry, I'm attracted to people with vaginas. I have never been interested in penises."
Totally fine.

"EWWWW, YOU AREN'T A WOMAN. I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO MEN, LIKE YOU."
Yea, transphobic.

[KillerGoose]

No. Everyone has preferences and are completely free to seek out those preferences. As a parallel, someone who doesn't want to date a person who is bi-sexual is not in turn a homophobe. Now, could they be a homophobe? Sure, but that preference alone doesn't make them so.

Could a lesbian who doesn't want to date a transgender person be a transphobe? Sure, but that preference alone doesn't make it so.

[GMDino]

(07-05-2023, 01:08 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think it depends on how they refuse.

"Sorry, I'm attracted to people with vaginas. I have never been interested in penises."
Totally fine.

"EWWWW, YOU AREN'T A WOMAN. I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO MEN, LIKE YOU."
Yea, transphobic.

This.

Everyone has their own taste.  And everyone who is turned down takes it their own way.

[HarleyDog]

I guess it depends on your political stance.

Left leaning: Yes - Transphobic. Might as well throw racist and communist in there and see if it sticks.

Right leaning: Don't care. Do what you want and be who you want to be as long as it doesn't affect me, my family, or my wallet.

[Millhouse]

According to some out there, yes it is. I mentioned it a while ago that I would be considered a transphobic by some because I would refuse to date &/or have 'relations' with a trans-woman because they don't have a V but guy parts. Same goes for lesbians that prefer the V over guy parts.

Their reasoning that we would be transphobic is because we do not fully equate a trans-woman with guy parts to a woman (girl parts). This is one of those times just because it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's not a duck under those feathers.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-05-2023, 01:09 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: No. Everyone has preferences and are completely free to seek out those preferences. As a parallel, someone who doesn't want to date a person who is bi-sexual is not in turn a homophobe. Now, could they be a homophobe? Sure, but that preference alone doesn't make them so.

Could a lesbian who doesn't want to date a transgender person be a transphobe? Sure, but that preference alone doesn't make it so.

That is a good point about people having the freedom of their own preferences and ability to speak out about them.  However, I'm beginning to wonder if the entire PC community isn't mislabeling peoples dislike of transfolk and transculture as "phobic"?  When I look up the definition of phobia, I get "an anxiety disorder involving excessive and persistent fear of a situation or object".  If there is no fear of trans, but only a dislike, is it really "transphobic"?

[HarleyDog]

(07-05-2023, 01:14 PM)Millhouse Wrote: According to some out there, yes it is. I mentioned it a while ago that I would be considered a transphobic by some because I would refuse to date &/or have 'relations' with a trans-woman because they don't have a V but guy parts. Same goes for lesbians that prefer the V over guy parts.

Their reasoning being that is that we would be transphobic is because we do not fully equate a trans-woman with guy parts to a woman (girl parts). This is one of those times just because it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it not a duck under those feathers.

Ben Shapiro could use this. Good post!

[HarleyDog]

(07-05-2023, 01:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a good point about people having the freedom of their own preferences and ability to speak out about them.  However, I'm beginning to wonder if the entire PC community isn't mislabeling peoples dislike of transfolk and transculture as "phobic"?  When I look up the definition of phobia, I get "an anxiety disorder involving excessive and persistent fear of a situation or object".  If there is no fear of trans, but only a dislike, is it really "transphobic"?

No. It's just dislike.

[KillerGoose]

(07-05-2023, 01:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a good point about people having the freedom of their own preferences and ability to speak out about them.  However, I'm beginning to wonder if the entire PC community isn't mislabeling peoples dislike of transfolk and transculture as "phobic"?  When I look up the definition of phobia, I get "an anxiety disorder involving excessive and persistent fear of a situation or object".  If there is no fear of trans, but only a dislike, is it really "transphobic"?

It may depend on which dictionary you're using, but the Oxford definition for "phobia" includes the word "aversion", which is defined as "a strong dislike or disinclination" and "a person or thing that arouses strong feelings of dislike". That seems to line up pretty well. Using the same parallel in my original post, homophobia is defined as "dislike of or prejudice against gay people."

[SunsetBengal]

(07-05-2023, 01:18 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: No. It's just dislike.

Falsely calling people transphobic, when they really just don't like or prefer to not have involvement with transpeople, really just seems like gaslighting to me.

[Millhouse]

(07-05-2023, 01:16 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Ben Shapiro could use this. Good post!

For the record, I don't care what people do or what they prefer. But yeah, there really are people out there that are so bent on trans-women being treated exactly the same as other women, that if anyone that doesn't agree on every possible topic of equality, then they are transphobic in their eyes.

[CJD]

(07-05-2023, 01:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Falsely calling people transphobic, when they really just don't like or prefer to not have involvement with transpeople, really just seems like gaslighting to me.

"phobic" has been added to the end of things because there's not a more recognized modifier to a word that is used for "is bigoted against". The same thing is done homophobia.

Transbigotia just doesn't have the same ring to it.

To trace it even further, "phobia" does mean fear of something but, more importantly, it is an irrational fear.

No one would call you pyrophobic for being scared of being burned to death. The irrationality of a fear is central to it being a phobia.

So when it comes to transphobia or homophobia, you could argue it is appropriate because hatred of people for being gay or for being trans is often based in irrationality. There's no good reason to hate gay people other than irrationality. Similar with trans people. So that's probably why that modifier stuck.

[treee]

(07-05-2023, 01:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Falsely calling people transphobic, when they really just don't like or prefer to not have involvement with transpeople, really just seems like gaslighting to me.

"Have involvement with" can encompass pretty much any interaction between people. Transgendered people's rights as employees for example, have been affirmed by the supreme court and you can not legally fire or withhold a job from a person just because they are trans. It doesn't matter if you don't want to interact with trans people, you can't make employment decisions based on that preference. You could apparently refuse to make a cake or website for them though. 

[BengalYankee]

Thank you all for answering. The article was interesting and I think it is a good question.

I guess me and Lesbians both have one thing in common, we like V.  

[SunsetBengal]

(07-05-2023, 02:13 PM)treee Wrote: "Have involvement with" can encompass pretty much any interaction between people. Transgendered people's rights as employees for example, have been affirmed by the supreme court and you can not legally fire or withhold a job from a person just because they are trans. It doesn't matter if you don't want to interact with trans people, you can't make employment decisions based on that preference. You could apparently refuse to make a cake or website for them though. 

You're right, that is pretty vague.  I guess maybe I should have been more clear with what I meant by "involvement", as I meant not wanting to get involved in a romantic or physical relationship.  And I agree that employment decisions, as in refusing to hire or termination of employment, based upon sexality are indeed discrimination.

[Arturo Bandini]

You're not obliged to date every woman even if you are heterosexual ... You date who you feel to.

What a crazy question to ask oneself.

[BengalYankee]

(07-05-2023, 03:03 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You're not obliged to date every woman even if you are heterosexual ... You date who you feel to.

What a crazy question to ask oneself.

That's not the question "sir".

The article was titled " Is it TRANSPHOBIC if lesbians refuse to date a trans woman?"

It is NOT, Is a Lesbian obligated to date every woman OR a heterosexual obligated to date every heterosexual!!!!

Within the article it clearly talks about Lesbians receiving backlash for not wanting to date ANY Trans woman.   
Don't change the theme of the thread and then run to the administrators and whine about this being a Hate thread.  

This was within the article, not the fake narrative you are proposing to whine about...


"There is a rising concern among the lesbian community about trans women wanting to date them. Sadly, there are some who are getting called transphobic due to not being interested. According to the BBC, the question arises: does a lesbian display transphobia by refusing to engage in sexual relationships with trans women? 

In addition to this, there are lesbians who claim they face mounting pressure and coercion to accept trans women as partners. However, if they reject this idea, they receive threats. In addition to this, a lesbian reveals the disturbing extent of the backlash she is facing. Unfortunately, she also receives death threats comparing her to Hitler, simply because she refuses to have sexual relations with trans women. " 

Here the link below by the BCC I might add has a thorough article about this issuing where Lesbians are being pressured.

That's the narrative "sir".

The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women - BBC News

[*michaelsean*]

I wouldn’t date someone if they had the full surgery. It would just weird me out.

[BengalYankee]

(07-05-2023, 04:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I wouldn’t date someone if they had the full surgery. It would just weird me out.

Hi Michaelsean,

I am totally confused.

You would not date someone if they had the full surgery as yourself? 

If you were a Lesbian? 

If you are talking as a Lesbian you wouldn't date them if they had a Surgery V? But would date them if they still had a P.?

I am not sure Lesbians like P's.