Is this racist?

[GMDino]

So, back story:  Pittsburgh had an incident where an officer was charged for shooting and killing a suspect who was running away after a car he was riding in was stopped following a drive by shooting.

Officer was found not guilty.

You had the usual marches and protests.  At least one idiot smashed out a window somewhere, but for the most part peaceful.

Of course there have been lots of arguments and discussions about the case and trial.

And now there is this:

Quote:Borough says there's nothing it can do about racially charged billboard
Updated: Mar 25, 2019 - 6:03 PM

WORTHINGTON, Pa. - A billboard in Worthington, Armstrong County is causing more controversy after messages over the weekend zeroed in on the Michael Rosfeld verdict, and other racially-charged messages. 



It’s drawing criticism, complaints and even damage to the sign itself. 

>>PREVIOUS: Billboard about race sparks controversy along Route 422
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"The messaging is toxic. It’s in my opinion it’s racist and divisive and no good is going to come of it," Mary Lou Mitsch told Channel 11 after driving by the billboard.

People were so outraged, someone pulled the electrical wiring down causing the billboard to go completely dark.


Worthington Borough officials said they've been swamped with complaints, but the council president says there is nothing they can do legally.

"It’s out of our control. The borough has no control, no authority to control the sign or anything else. It’s a privately owned sign," George Kerr said.

The owner of the sign, John Placek, told Channel 11's Melanie Marsalko over the phone he realizes he pushed the envelope.  Placek says he was trying to highlight the dialogue of race issues.

I think if I posted what the one billboard says it would be a violation of the COC so I'll let y'all see it at the link.

My two cents is that if someone thinks paying to post racist crap on a billboard makes them a patriot we have a lot of problems in this country.  And based on the number of people who support him it might not be a small problem.

[*bfine32*]

Yes. It's every bit as racist as Black Lives Matter propaganda.

WTS which message would violate the COC?

[Benton]

racism is in more in the intent, so that's up to the guy who put up the billboard.

But bad taste, divisiveness and trying to elicit a negative response? Definitely.

[Dill]

(03-25-2019, 11:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think if I posted what the one billboard says it would be a violation of the COC so I'll let y'all see it at the link.

My two cents is that if someone thinks paying to post racist crap on a billboard makes them a patriot we have a lot of problems in this country.  And based on the number of people who support him it might not be a small problem.

The why-do-blacks-get-to-say-it-but-not-whites crowd will likely not find it racist.

I do, though.

[*michaelsean*]

Racist? I'm not sure, but it's in horrible taste. I don't really care whether it meets the definition of racism. That's not the end all that everything needs to be measured by. Showing the kid who died and justice served is just insensitive and classless. Somebody was his mother and father. The why can't whites say it is just boring. It's been decided. Move along.

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 12:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes. It's every bit as racist as Black Lives Matter propaganda.

WTS which message would violate the COC?

Could you explain that?

I assume the N word would violate it.

[CJD]

"And we need to get over the part: I'm black, you're white. You're Hispanic. Who cares? I don't care about that. I do care how you act, I do care how you stand for my flag. Our flag. "

It doesn't surprise me at all that an old white man wants people to stop talking about race. Especially when he immediately follows it up with a condemnation of not standing for the flag, a topic tied explicitly to race relations in this country.

Just because he "doesn't care" about race, he expects other people to not care either. I feel like that's, at the very least, insensitive about the matters of race, if not the basic foundation of racism.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's said "I don't see color" multiple times in the past.

[*bfine32*]

(03-26-2019, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Could you explain that?

I assume the N word would violate it.

It promotes a singular race. 

[CJD]

(03-26-2019, 09:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It promotes a singular race. 

Are you talking about extremist Black Lives Matter propaganda? Or just the core movement in general?

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 09:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It promotes a singular race. 

I figured that was your reason.

[*bfine32*]

(03-26-2019, 09:45 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Are you talking about extremist Black Lives Matter propaganda? Or just the core movement in general?

IMO the whole mantra is divisive and racist; however, I was obviously speaking toward the extreme, just as the OP was. IE, those that focus on hate rather than unity. 

[CJD]

(03-26-2019, 09:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: IMO the whole mantra is divisive and racist; however, I was obviously speaking toward the extreme, just as the OP was. IE, those that focus on hate rather than unity. 

Okay. I only ask because I've seen the characterization of BLM as racist before and it's not an uncommon belief. But I do think there are positive aspects of it. I think the problems began when people starting doing a kind of "reverse movement" with White Lives Matter, All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter as a means to demean, undermine or mock the Black Lives Matter movement.

From my (liberal) viewpoint, the core aspect of Black Lives Matter will always be Black Lives Also Matter. And that probably should have been their movement name, in hindsight.

The reason it was started was, obviously, a response to the increasingly visible abuse/murder of unarmed black people by the police and the all too common "all clear" given to the cops that perpetrated these killings.

I think the fact that white people took it as an attack on their race was largely how it became such a divisive issue in the first place. As a white man, I can see how someone who has no attachment to the black community could perceive it as such, but I never saw it that way because I have a black wife and her and her families' experiences with cops/authority figures (some that I've seen first hand) have been obviously markedly different than my own.

The idea that Black Lives Matter promotes a single race is a misconception that I believe is common on the right. The best way I've found to describe how Liberals view the movement is a comparison I saw on twitter a few years ago. It encapsulated my (and most people I've spoken to) viewpoint/perspective of it in a pretty perfect way:
"Black Lives Matter doesn't mean other lives don't. Like people who say "Save The Rainforests" aren't saying "F*** All Other Types of Forests""


It's an examination of something that is in danger, or being devalued. It isn't a commentary on other races because those races are not under siege the way black lives are.


I'm sure you've heard this all before and you have formed your own opinion. But I figured I would just provide my own insight in the unlikely case that you've never seen or heard this perspective before. 

[Benton]

(03-26-2019, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Could you explain that?

I assume the N word would violate it.

That word would. Was it in the billboard? That link wasn't user friendly. Kept trying to sell me stuff

[GMDino]

(03-26-2019, 10:20 AM)Benton Wrote: That word would. Was it in the billboard? That link wasn't user friendly. Kept trying to sell me stuff

Yes it was on the billboard.

I'll edit the link!  LOL!

[CJD]

(03-26-2019, 10:20 AM)Benton Wrote: That word would. Was it in the billboard? That link wasn't user friendly. Kept trying to sell me stuff

Yea, you had to watch the video. There were no still shots of the billboard. But one of the slides that was projected said "Why can Blacks say but Whites can't?"

[*bfine32*]

(03-26-2019, 10:16 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Okay. I only ask because I've seen the characterization of BLM as racist before and it's not an uncommon belief. But I do think there are positive aspects of it. I think the problems began when people starting doing a kind of "reverse movement" with White Lives Matter, All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter as a means to demean, undermine or mock the Black Lives Matter movement.

From my (liberal) viewpoint, the core aspect of Black Lives Matter will always be Black Lives Also Matter. And that probably should have been their movement name, in hindsight.

The reason it was started was, obviously, a response to the increasingly visible abuse/murder of unarmed black people by the police and the all too common "all clear" given to the cops that perpetrated these killings.

I think the fact that white people took it as an attack on their race was largely how it became such a divisive issue in the first place. As a white man, I can see how someone who has no attachment to the black community could perceive it as such, but I never saw it that way because I have a black wife and her and her families' experiences with cops/authority figures (some that I've seen first hand) have been obviously markedly different than my own.

The idea that Black Lives Matters promotes a single race is a misconception that I believe is common on the right. The best way I've found to describe how Liberals view the movement is a comparison I saw on twitter a few years ago. It encapsulated my (and most people I've spoken to) viewpoint/perspective of it in a pretty perfect way:
"Black Lives Matter doesn't mean other lives don't. Like people who say "Save The Rainforests" aren't saying "F*** All Other Types of Forests""


It's an examination of something that is in danger, or being devalued. It isn't a commentary on other races because those races are not under siege the way black lives are.


I'm sure you've heard this all before and you have formed your own opinion. But I figured I would just provide my own insight in the unlikely case that you've never seen or heard this perspective before. 

Quality post and I don't want to turn this into a BLM debate. I simply provided an example and Benton facilitated this example when he mentioned intent. Are thier both racists and non-racists that would state "whites have rights too" ? Yes. Are there both racists and non-racists that protest behind the BLM badge? Yes.  

IMO dude, in then OP is most likely racist; of course I freely admit I'm making an unfair assumption; however, some of the messages displayed are not. 

[CJD]

(03-26-2019, 10:30 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Quality post and I don't want to turn this into a BLM debate. I simply provided an example and Benton facilitated this example when he mentioned intent. Are thier both racists and non-racists that would state "whites have rights too" ? Yes. Are there both racists and non-racists that protest behind the BLM badge? Yes.  

IMO dude, in then OP is most likely racist; of course I freely admit I'm making an unfair assumption; however, some of the messages displayed are not. 

Fair enough. I can agree that there are racists who protest behind the BLM banner just like there are white people who aren't racist who may feel attacked in the current racial discussions going on in the country, even if that's not the direct intention of those who are speaking to them. 

I can even say from experience, I've had conversations with my own wife where I've felt the urge to get defensive when we talk about race (even though we largely agree on every topic regarding race), so it's not an unnatural response in any way.

I only seek to add context to these discussions that can potentially dismantle the aggression and hostility that they are often discussed in. I've found (mostly during in person discussions) that if you sit down and have a calm, logical conversation with someone you disagree with, that their viewpoints really aren't nearly as outrageous as you may assume. There's shades of gray to most discussions and if you assume your opponents only take the most extreme of positions, it's very easy to mischaracterize them and, therefore, dismiss them as terrible people.

*puts soapbox away*

[BmorePat87]

The guy is clearly racist. Generic attacks on black lawmakers or celebrities is borderline (even if we know his intent), but using the N word and saying that slaves didn't have it as bad coal miners sets it over the top.

One of his signs was for "White History Month" and showcased inventors including Graham Bell and Edison. People pointed out that both Bell and Edison had the same man, Lewis Latimer, help them finalize their inventions and draft the patents for them. Latimer, best know for improving on Edison's lightbulb with the superior carbon filament, was a black man. He also was hired to help Maxim Hiram create the first fully automated machine gun.

The billboard owner doubted this since he "never learned about him in school", suggesting he must not have been important.

[Benton]

(03-26-2019, 10:21 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yes it was on the billboard.

I'll edit the link!  LOL!

Ah, sorry, think I was posting with only partial info there.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I think it's up to individual interpretation.

A racist will look for racist remarks even if there isn't one there, and sometimes it is obviously a racist remark.
And I will admit, I had no issues with BLM when it started, but it went overboard once it started supporting Cop Killers and lost all credibility at that point with me.