(09-06-2020, 08:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why was Trump able to "expose" something that no other candidate has been able to before?
What did he do that other Republican candidates had not?
Was it the Confederate battle flags at his rallies?
The p*ssy grabbing?
What was it exactly?
You ask a lot of questions but have no other answer than "because Trump". The Left were extremely violent leading up to the 2016 election, you cannot deny that; nor can you make up that Trump cultivated it; it was already there. Many called Obama the Great Divider; perhaps there was something to it.
Bottom line: You cannot accuse Trump of cultivating something that was happening before he was ever elected. The millennials came to age around 2006-2016. This generation was brought up on the internet and they consider themselves socially awoken. They are highly educated (do read intelligent) and absorbed great debt to get there. The Left offered them everything they wanted and when it was threatened they got mad and when they didn't get it they lost their minds.
But who knows. Maybe the guy that said if he would take Trump out behind the gym and beat the hell out of him can stop this culture. Or maybe adults can take control.
But who knows. Maybe the guy that said if he would take Trump out behind the gym and beat the hell out of him can stop this culture. Or maybe adults can take control.
By saying he could shoot someone and not lose votes ? Or by encouraging violence by saying he'd take care of it? Are you suggesting there's some peace in his control?
(09-06-2020, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Left offered them everything they wanted and when it was threatened they got mad and when they didn't get it they lost their minds.
I don't understand what this means.
What were they offered that caused them to lose their minds when they did not get it?
(09-06-2020, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You ask a lot of questions but have no other answer than "because Trump". The Left were extremely violent leading up to the 2016 election, you cannot deny that; nor can you make up that Trump cultivated it;
Actually I can deny that. I do not remember any other Republican Candidates having to deal with their supporters getting attacked.
I don't remember any unusual violence until Trump came along with his KKK endorsements, racists attacks on Mexican immigrants, and followers proudly flying the Confederate flag at his rallies.
(09-07-2020, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I can deny that. I do not remember any other Republican Candidates having to deal with their supporters getting attacked.
I don't remember any unusual violence until Trump came along with his KKK endorsements, racists attacks on Mexican immigrants, and followers proudly flying the Confederate flag at his rallies.
That's correct kids, if you attack someone just blame them for being something you don't like and that makes it their fault, not yours. Does it not bother you to make excuses for people engaged in politically motivated violence?
(09-06-2020, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You ask a lot of questions but have no other answer than "because Trump". The Left were extremely violent leading up to the 2016 election, you cannot deny that; nor can you make up that Trump cultivated it; it was already there. Many called Obama the Great Divider; perhaps there was something to it.
Bottom line: You cannot accuse Trump of cultivating something that was happening before he was ever elected. The millennials came to age around 2006-2016. This generation was brought up on the internet and they consider themselves socially awoken. They are highly educated (do read intelligent) and absorbed great debt to get there. The Left offered them everything they wanted and when it was threatened they got mad and when they didn't get it they lost their minds.
But who knows. Maybe the guy that said if he would take Trump out behind the gym and beat the hell out of him can stop this culture. Or maybe adults can take control.
(09-07-2020, 11:04 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's correct kids, if you attack someone just blame them for being something you don't like and that makes it their fault, not yours. Does it not bother you to make excuses for people engaged in politically motivated violence?
This isn't intended to pick on you, or to elevate the rioters/looters in this current climate, but this sentiment is something I struggle with. "Politically motivated violence" is what this country was founded on. It has caused us to have the 40-hour work week and many laws that help protect workers around the country including putting an end to child labor. It sparked the Civil War (John Brown's raid was a really big spark on that powder keg). I think this is why I have such a hard time with this climate in general. Whether someone supports or denounces the current spate of violence is based almost entirely on whether or not they agree with the message put forth by those engaging in it.
While I don't engaged in the violence going on and don't necessarily agree with them 100%, I still find myself looking at this through the lens of historical context. I mean, I had relatives in the Coal Wars and I am proud to be descended from them. I just don't know how to best articulate this idea that we need to readjust our perception of the current events.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(09-07-2020, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I can deny that. I do not remember any other Republican Candidates having to deal with their supporters getting attacked.
I don't remember any unusual violence until Trump came along with his KKK endorsements, racists attacks on Mexican immigrants, and followers proudly flying the Confederate flag at his rallies.
You can actually read that first line you just typed and say "yep candidate's fault"? History of the forums have taught me that you and many others on the Left are no fan of personal responsibility, but this is a new benchmark.
What you are saying is: "The Left is so weak-minded that the announcement of a candidate with views different than theirs causes them to react with violence". It's a similar train of thought that leads Biden to say shit like if you don't vote for me "you ain't black."
Let's concede that Trump is racist, because honestly you need all the concessions in this discussion you can get. There were many openly racist Presidential Candidates in the pass whose supporters didn't get physically attacked, so what changed?
(09-07-2020, 11:53 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This isn't intended to pick on you, or to elevate the rioters/looters in this current climate, but this sentiment is something I struggle with. "Politically motivated violence" is what this country was founded on. It has caused us to have the 40-hour work week and many laws that help protect workers around the country including putting an end to child labor. It sparked the Civil War (John Brown's raid was a really big spark on that powder keg). I think this is why I have such a hard time with this climate in general. Whether someone supports or denounces the current spate of violence is based almost entirely on whether or not they agree with the message put forth by those engaging in it.
While I don't engaged in the violence going on and don't necessarily agree with them 100%, I still find myself looking at this through the lens of historical context. I mean, I had relatives in the Coal Wars and I am proud to be descended from them. I just don't know how to best articulate this idea that we need to readjust our perception of the current events.
That's why kneeling was the worst thing someone could do and now the violence is used to overshadow the protests but carrying tiki torches chanting anti Jewish phrases was ok.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-06-2020, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You ask a lot of questions but have no other answer than "because Trump". The Left were extremely violent leading up to the 2016 election, you cannot deny that; nor can you make up that Trump cultivated it; it was already there. Many called Obama the Great Divider; perhaps there was something to it.
Bottom line: You cannot accuse Trump of cultivating something that was happening before he was ever elected. The millennials came to age around 2006-2016. This generation was brought up on the internet and they consider themselves socially awoken. They are highly educated (do read intelligent) and absorbed great debt to get there. The Left offered them everything they wanted and when it was threatened they got mad and when they didn't get it they lost their minds.
But who knows. Maybe the guy that said if he would take Trump out behind the gym and beat the hell out of him can stop this culture. Or maybe adults can take control.
The disconnect between Trump's own actions and widespread "hate" for him continues to astonish.
Have you ever heard of BIRTHERISM? Who made that his signature theme? Can we accuse Trump of "cultivating" that before he was elected?
The ONLY people who called Obama "the Great Divider" were Fox and their political friends, especially for his response to a college professor stopped by the police at his own door--because "Black"--and his empathy for Trayvon Martin's parents. I.e., Because Obama . . . .
In what world does some entity called "the left" offer a single youth demographic "everything they wanted"? What specific person made this offer on behalf of "the left"? What "it" was threatened--by whom? How?
There are youth out there shouting as they riot "But 'the Left' PROMISED!" ??
(09-07-2020, 11:53 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This isn't intended to pick on you, or to elevate the rioters/looters in this current climate, but this sentiment is something I struggle with. "Politically motivated violence" is what this country was founded on. It has caused us to have the 40-hour work week and many laws that help protect workers around the country including putting an end to child labor. It sparked the Civil War (John Brown's raid was a really big spark on that powder keg). I think this is why I have such a hard time with this climate in general. Whether someone supports or denounces the current spate of violence is based almost entirely on whether or not they agree with the message put forth by those engaging in it.
While I don't engaged in the violence going on and don't necessarily agree with them 100%, I still find myself looking at this through the lens of historical context. I mean, I had relatives in the Coal Wars and I am proud to be descended from them. I just don't know how to best articulate this idea that we need to readjust our perception of the current events.
But when you have folks such as AOC condoning looting of Gucci and Nike stores and suggest. "They're just stealing bread to feed their family" then there is 0 political ideology involved from the looters or those condoning it.
The ONLY people who called Obama "the Great Divider" were Fox and their political friends, especially for his response to a college professor stopped by the police at his own door--because "Black"--and his empathy for Trayvon Martin's parents. I.e., Because Obama . . . .
In what world does some entity called "the left" offer a single youth demographic "everything they wanted"? What specific person made this offer on behalf of "the left"? What "it" was threatened--by whom? How?
There are youth out there shouting as they riot "But 'the Left' PROMISED!" ??
Coincidence...I'm sure.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
The ONLY people who called Obama "the Great Divider" were Fox and their political friends, especially for his response to a college professor stopped by the police at his own door--because "Black"--and his empathy for Trayvon Martin's parents. I.e., Because Obama . . . .
In what world does some entity called "the left" offer a single youth demographic "everything they wanted"? What specific person made this offer on behalf of "the left"? What "it" was threatened--by whom? How?
There are youth out there shouting as they riot "But 'the Left' PROMISED!" ??
Yes Trump was one of many that stated Obama may not have been born inside the US. Matter of fact I believe the doubt was first cast by supporters of Hillary Clinton.
At the only people that state Trump is responsible for the Left's violence in CNN and it's political friends.
The difference between me and those like you in this forum is I'm a bigger proponent of personal accountability. It's what leads to about 95% of the debates in this forum. And the whole violence is "Cause Trump" is no different.
(09-07-2020, 12:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But when you have folks such as AOC condoning looting of Gucci and Nike stores and suggest. "They're just stealing bread to feed their family" then there is 0 political ideology involved from the looters or those condoning it.
There are definitely some things that are confounding, here. For example, violence against the perceived oppressive power, such as the state. However, there are arguments out there that this is a plutocracy, so violence against symbols of that like Gucci and Nike could be seen as viably politically motivated. The whole commentary from AOC just doesn't work, though.
And of course there will always be those that just thrive on the chaos and will take advantage of the situation.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(09-07-2020, 12:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There are definitely some things that are confounding, here. For example, violence against the perceived oppressive power, such as the state. However, there are arguments out there that this is a plutocracy, so violence against symbols of that like Gucci and Nike could be seen as viably politically motivated. The whole commentary from AOC just doesn't work, though.
And of course there will always be those that just thrive on the chaos and will take advantage of the situation.
(09-07-2020, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes Trump was one of many that stated Obama may not have been born inside the US. Matter of fact I believe the doubt was first cast by supporters of Hillary Clinton.
(09-07-2020, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: At the only people that state Trump is responsible for the Left's violence in CNN and it's political friends.
Well why would Trump supporters acknowledge a) that he encourages violence (see video) of b) the truth?
(09-07-2020, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The difference between me and those like you in this forum is I'm a bigger proponent of personal accountability. It's what leads to about 95% of the debates in this forum. And the whole violence is "Cause Trump" is no different.
"Personal accountability" for actions but not words. Trump says windmills cause cancer? Defend Trump! Trump says he'll pay for the legal fees of people who punch protesters at his rallies? Defend Trump! He didn't say that! He didn't mean that!
"Personal accountability" seems to mean everyone else should be held accountable for what they say and do (Cuomo said hes lost control of NY!!) but not Trump.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(09-07-2020, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes Trump was one of many that stated Obama may not have been born inside the US. Matter of fact I believe the doubt was first cast by supporters of Hillary Clinton.
At the only people that state Trump is responsible for the Left's violence in CNN and it's political friends.
The difference between me and those like you in this forum is I'm a bigger proponent of personal accountability. It's what leads to about 95% of the debates in this forum. And the whole violence is "Cause Trump" is no different.
Did Dill make a comparison to Hillary?
No, so this is just blatant whataboutism according to you.
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