Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr. Were Close to Being Charged With Felony Fraud

[*michaelsean*]

(10-04-2017, 02:11 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Ok I get that, and agree somewhat.  However, I think that many voters thought that Hillary was going to win regardless and voted 3rd party or write in a form of protest if you will.  Bottom line I think a lot of people that didn't vote for Hillary are regretting not voting for their party's nominee.  We could debate all day on who is worse Trump or Clinton, and I agree I don't like either option.  I guess I just see Trump as the worse option.

I'm not disagreeing.  I really don't know how it's going to go, and probably nobody does. I get what you are saying.   I, for instance, never liked McCain, and I knew by election day that he wasn't going to win so I didn't vote for him.  Had it been closer would I have?  Probably.

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2017, 02:11 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Ok I get that, and agree somewhat.  However, I think that many voters thought that Hillary was going to win regardless and voted 3rd party or write in a form of protest if you will.  Bottom line I think a lot of people that didn't vote for Hillary are regretting not voting for their party's nominee.  We could debate all day on who is worse Trump or Clinton, and I agree I don't like either option.  I guess I just see Trump as the worse option.

I also see Trump as the worse option, but I don't regret voting for Gary Johnson.  The insulting thing about voting for a 3rd party is that people will tell you that you wasted your vote because your guy can't win but also that you helped "the other guy" get elected because you didn't vote for the lesser of two evils.

Ok, so my one vote is worthless when I vote for someone I like BUT your candidate lacking my one worthless vote is what opened the door for the evil one to win?  So basically my vote either counts for nothing or everything depending on your narrative.  Interesting. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 01:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Subtext: I have to say this, otherwise I can be indicted for accepting bribes and making a mockery of our justice system.

That sounds kinda made up

[hollodero]

(10-04-2017, 05:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I also see Trump as the worse option, but I don't regret voting for Gary Johnson.  The insulting thing about voting for a 3rd party is that people will tell you that you wasted your vote because your guy can't win but also that you helped "the other guy" get elected because you didn't vote for the lesser of two evils.

Yeah... I honestly can understand where you're coming from... but then again, you wasted your vote because your guy can't win anything :) the latter is just undeniably true. Now you have the bigger of two evils and you indeed did nothing to avoid that, that is also true. I find it difficult to argue that it isn't.

(10-04-2017, 05:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, so my one vote is worthless when I vote for someone I like BUT your candidate lacking my one worthless vote is what opened the door for the evil one to win?  So basically my vote either counts for nothing or everything depending on your narrative.  Interesting. 

Your choice is what made the vote "worthless" (I would use a different term), it wasn't worthless in the first place. That's where your viewpoint on that has a logical error.
Voting for Johnson or Stein is like rooting for Monaco in the cold war.

Don't blame those who tell you so... blame the voting system you're stuck in. It just gave you a disgusting and a poisonous option. You just opted out of that choice and left it to the others. Mind you, I don't try to blame you, I blame the system. People should be able to see multiple partys as viable options, it's not Johnson's or his voter's fault that his party is not.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-04-2017, 05:50 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah... I honestly can understand where you're coming from... but then again, you wasted your vote because your guy can't win anything :) the latter is just undeniably true. Now you have the bigger of two evils and you indeed did nothing to avoid that, that is also true. I find it difficult to argue that it isn't.


Your choice is what made the vote "worthless" (I would use a different term), it wasn't worthless in the first place. That's where your viewpoint on that has a logical error.
Voting for Johnson or Stein is like rooting for Monaco in the cold war.

Don't blame those who tell you so... blame the voting system you're stuck in. It just gave you a disgusting and a poisonous option. You just opted out of that choice and left it to the others. Mind you, I don't try to blame you, I blame the system. People should be able to see multiple partys as viable options, it's not Johnson's or his voter's fault that his party is not.

They become more viable by receiving more votes. I honestly expected Johnson to get a lot more votes.

[hollodero]

(10-04-2017, 06:09 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They become more viable by receiving more votes. I honestly expected Johnson to get a lot more votes.

Yeah, that's the theory that holds theoretical value. 
Are they getting any more viable?

--- Guess 2018 will answer that. If libertarians are sent to congress, well even if libertarians reach 5% nationwide (let's keep it real), I will stand very corrected.
But the way I see things now, a current Johnson voter isn't identified as someone who harbors libertarian ideas, but as someone who was just utterly frustrated with the two major candidates.

[*Nately120*]

(10-04-2017, 06:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah, that's the theory that holds theoretical value. 
Are they getting any more viable?

--- Guess 2018 will answer that. If libertarians are sent to congress, well even if libertarians reach 5% nationwide (let's keep it real), I will stand very corrected.
But the way I see things now, a current Johnson voter isn't identified as someone who harbors libertarian ideas, but as someone who was just utterly frustrated with the two major candidates.

I've been a registered libertarian for over a decade. If they wouldn't have even let Johnson on the ballot I probably wouldn't have bothered voting. 

[hollodero]

(10-04-2017, 07:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I've been a registered libertarian for over a decade.

Oh alright then, then my remarks aren't too appropriate. If it's your team and you're that committed, you have real incentive to vote for them, sure.

This board has a huge amount of libertarians I have to say.

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 07:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I've been a registered libertarian for over a decade. If they wouldn't have even let Johnson on the ballot I probably wouldn't have bothered voting. 

If a woman voted libertarian did she vote against her voice? 

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 07:26 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh alright then, then my remarks aren't too appropriate. If it's your team and you're that committed, you have real incentive to vote for them, sure.

This board has a huge amount of libertarians I have to say.

It really doesn't. 

[hollodero]

(10-04-2017, 08:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It really doesn't. 

 I think I've encountered four so far. So... maybe at least disproportionaly many :)

[NATI BENGALS]

(10-04-2017, 12:25 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Bingo. Another Hillary clone will lead to people still voting 3rd party or just not voting at all. Which will get Trump re-elected.

So will more Russian hacking.

[*bfine32*]

(10-04-2017, 10:56 PM)hollodero Wrote:  I think I've encountered four so far. So... maybe at least disproportionaly many :)

Oh, I'm not saying their are not a disproportionate folks that say they are libertarian. 

[Dill]

(10-04-2017, 02:11 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Ok I get that, and agree somewhat.  However, I think that many voters thought that Hillary was going to win regardless and voted 3rd party or write in a form of protest if you will.  Bottom line I think a lot of people that didn't vote for Hillary are regretting not voting for their party's nominee.  We could debate all day on who is worse Trump or Clinton, and I agree I don't like either option.  I guess I just see Trump as the worse option.

If we have to debate whether Trump or Clinton is worse, especially now after months of Trump chaos, then there is no hope for the country.
A pro war, wall street "leftist" would not be unraveling decades of foreign policy achievement--the economy to follow.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(10-05-2017, 12:05 AM)Dill Wrote: If we have to debate whether Trump or Clinton is worse, especially now after months of Trump chaos, then there is no hope for the country.
A pro war, wall street "leftist" would not be unraveling decades of foreign policy achievement--the economy to follow.

No I agree I don't believe her to be a pro war wall street leftist.  However I do know there is a lot of baggage that comes with the Clinton name, some deserved and some not.  Regardless, the dems should've found somebody anybody, that could've challenged her nomination other than Bernie.  Think about it this way incumbent presidents are usually hard to remove, so once they complete their second term the opposite party usually gets the office.  So for a Dem to win after a current Dem held the office for 8yrs was going to be pretty difficult.  However the Reps lobbed up a softball in nominating Trump, the Dems swung and missed hard in nominating Clinton.  That brand was damaged.  Don't get me wrong I like Bernie But he is to far left for a lot of people.  What the Dems needed to do was find a moderate Dem that is calm, cool and collected and showed a steady hand compared to the chaos Trumped offered.

And don't get me started on how 16 Reps failed to secure the nomination over Trump! Un-frigginbelievable! Believe it or not I've voted Rep in the past.

Sorry/end rant

[Vlad]

(10-05-2017, 12:05 AM)Dill Wrote: If we have to debate whether Trump or Clinton is worse, especially now after months of Trump chaos, then there is no hope for the country.
A pro war, wall street "leftist" would not be unraveling decades of foreign policy achievement--the economy to follow.

Yeah, manufactured months of Trump chaos and hyperbole by leftists hell-bent on delegitimizing his election since that shocker on Nov 6...so desperate as to petition the states electoral college electors to reject the normal process and cast their vote for the Hildebeest.

 "The Trump administration in turmoil! ... Trump appointees either fired or quitting!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-31/unfaithful-departed-meet-people-who-bailed-obama-administration

[ballsofsteel]

(10-04-2017, 10:30 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: New York prosecutors were preparing a case. Then the D.A. overruled his staff after a visit from a top donor: Trump attorney Marc Kasowitz.

https://www.propublica.org/article/ivanka-donald-trump-jr-close-to-being-charged-felony-fraud


There is more in the article. Take the Trump name out of this and this is still one of the big things wrong with our society. Enough money and you can get away with just about anything.

Lock them up.

[Dill]

(10-05-2017, 06:19 AM)Vlad Wrote: Yeah, manufactured months of Trump chaos and hyperbole by leftists hell-bent on delegitimizing his election since that shocker on Nov 6...so desperate as to petition the states electoral college electors to reject the normal process and cast their vote for the Hildebeest.

 "The Trump administration in turmoil! ... Trump appointees either fired or quitting!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-31/unfaithful-departed-meet-people-who-bailed-obama-administration

LOL do "leftists" control Tump's tweets and firings?  Do they force Trump to contradict and undermine his own cabinet members? Did "leftists" write his speech to the Boy Scouts?

You post a list of people who left the Obama administration over the course of six years, most to take jobs in the private sector.
That's your counter to "the Mooch," Sean Spicer, the disgraced Flynn and Price and others FORCED OUT in the first six months?

Did you even read your list? Gates firing a general is not someone "departing the Obama administration."

[*Nately120*]

(10-05-2017, 06:19 AM)Vlad Wrote: Yeah, manufactured months of Trump chaos and hyperbole by leftists hell-bent on delegitimizing his election since that shocker on Nov 6...so desperate as to petition the states electoral college electors to reject the normal process and cast their vote for the Hildebeest.

 "The Trump administration in turmoil! ... Trump appointees either fired or quitting!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-31/unfaithful-departed-meet-people-who-bailed-obama-administration

I hear ya.  People trying to convince themselves that Trump isn't awesome is the most pathetic thing I've seen since people spent 8 years trying to convince themselves Obama wasn't awesome. This is the USA and in case you didn't get the memo, we're the best place to be and to live and anyone who denies that is straight-up jelly. 

Everything is great, everything is fine...may lightning strike me in the dick if I'm lying!

[BmorePat87]

(10-05-2017, 06:19 AM)Vlad Wrote: Yeah, manufactured months of Trump chaos and hyperbole by leftists hell-bent on delegitimizing his election since that shocker on Nov 6...so desperate as to petition the states electoral college electors to reject the normal process and cast their vote for the Hildebeest.

 "The Trump administration in turmoil! ... Trump appointees either fired or quitting!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-31/unfaithful-departed-meet-people-who-bailed-obama-administration

Carney: 3.5 years
Shinseki: 5.5 years
Sebelius: 5 years
Alexander: 8 years


I stopped after the 4th one because it was just too ridiculous to see someone comparing a wave of firings or resignations within the first days-months to people who stepped down after being there for one of Obama's full terms or more. 3 of the first 7 were originally Republican appointments too carried over from Bush.