Jamal Adams extended...Bates next?

[QueenCity]

Personally I'd franchise him for the next two years depending on what other moves we'd like to make. I have a hard time getting past paying a safety that much money.

Great player - but again not my money nor decision :)

[sandwedge]

(08-19-2021, 08:26 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: And yet the aren't regarding him as the best safety in football going into this season.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-safety-rankings-the-32-best-safeties-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

Where they have him ranked seems about right to me.

Interesting they have Adams at 10 and Bates at 8....
That could cost us money

[Sled21]

(08-19-2021, 08:48 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Personally I'd franchise him for the next two years depending on what other moves we'd like to make.  I have a hard time getting past paying a safety that much money.

Great player - but again not my money nor decision :)

I'd maybe tag him once, then they need to do something with him because they will be having Joey B's contract coming up soon after that.

[TJ528]

(08-19-2021, 08:48 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Personally I'd franchise him for the next two years depending on what other moves we'd like to make.  I have a hard time getting past paying a safety that much money.

Great player - but again not my money nor decision :)

are you related to Mike Brown? 

With the salary cap going up significantly I can see paying a player like Bates, who wants to be here, instead of giving $5M less to a guy you just bring in from free agency.  

I think it sets a bad precedent if you don't sign Bates to an extension.  

I mean according to the team, the reason they rebuilt the team was because they wanted to change the culture.  

You go back to not paying your players like you didnt with Whit and Zeitler, your back in the same spot you were in 2015/2016.  Players looking for a first class ticket outta Cincy. 

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2021, 09:16 AM)TJ528 Wrote: You go back to not paying your players like you didnt with Whit and Zeitler, your back in the same spot you were in 2015/2016.  Players looking for a first class ticket outta Cincy. 

Actually the Bengals have a LOING history of paying top dollar to keep their own players.

Whitworth was an outlier because he was 36.

Zeitler was an outlier because he was overpaid by another team.

You can't just ignore theses guys

Carson Palmer
Chad Johnson
TJ Houshmendzedah
Levi Jones
Willie Anderson
Rich Braham
Bobbie Williams
Andrew Whitworth
Clint Boling
Andy Dalton
AJ Green 
Vontaze Burfict
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Leon Hall
Brian Simmons
Robert Geathers
Domata Peko
Cedric Benson
Tyler Eifert
Giovani Bernard
Dre Kirkpatrick
Adam Jones
Reggie Nelson
Shawn Williams
George Iloka
Joe Mixon
Sam Hubbard

[TJ528]

(08-20-2021, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the Bengals have a LOING history of paying top dollar to keep their own players.

Whitworth was an outlier because he was 36.

Zeitler was an outlier because he was overpaid by another team.

You can't just ignore theses guys

Carson Palmer
Chad Johnson
TJ Houshmendzedah
Levi Jones
Willie Anderson
Rich Braham
Bobbie Williams
Andrew Whitworth
Clint Boling
Andy Dalton
AJ Green 
Vontaze Burfict
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Leon Hall
Brian Simmons
Robert Geathers
Domata Peko
Cedric Benson
Tyler Eifert
Giovani Bernard
Dre Kirkpatrick
Adam Jones
Reggie Nelson
Shawn Williams
George Iloka
Joe Mixon
Sam Hubbard

You look at everyone you put here and they paid them and kept them, you're very correct Fred. 

However, I'm looking through the list you included for a player at the top of his game who was considered the "best" player at his position in the NFL.  I honestly don't see any players on that list that would meet those criteria.  I guess you could include Carson Palmer but that was almost (oh lord) 20 years ago. 

So while the Bengals do have a good track record of signing their own players to extensions, the Bengals also have a good track record of being frugal.  Not wanting to do contracts of $70M and $40M guaranteed upfront.  They're more like $60M and we'll go $25 guaranteed but $15M in 2023, then $5M in 2024 and another $5M in 2025.  

Players now days want there's and I don't blame them.  Unlike MLB, where players are guaranteed their contracts, the NFL doesn't guarantee anything.  So these players want their guarantees up front.  At the end of the day, if you want Jesse Bates and he wants to be the highest paid Safety in the NFL then you do what you need to get him signed.  

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2021, 08:48 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Personally I'd franchise him for the next two years depending on what other moves we'd like to make.  I have a hard time getting past paying a safety that much money.

Times have changed.  Safeties are not just guys who are too slow to play CB or too small to play LB.  With the way teams are throwing the ball now cover safeties like Bates are extremely valuable.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember when TEs were just small tackles who sometimes caught passes, but the same thing happened with that position.  Now there are several TEs making 10-15 million a year.

[TJ528]

(08-20-2021, 11:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Times have changed.  Safeties are not just guys who are too slow to play CB or too small to play LB.  With the way teams are throwing the ball now cover safeties like Bates are extremely valuable.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember when TEs were just small tackles who sometimes caught passes, but the same thing happened with that position.  Now there are several TEs making 10-15 million a year.

Fred, your right when it comes to what safety's do in the NFL now days.  

Safety's are more CB's than they are guys who are too slow to play CB.  

I'm hoping the FO doesn't look at the safety position, how they look at the guard position on the OL.  

Last Bengals TE i remember like you're describing was Rodney Holman.  

Dude could block but if i remember right didn't catch many balls per season. 

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2021, 11:37 AM)TJ528 Wrote: You look at everyone you put here and they paid them and kept them, you're very correct Fred. 

However, I'm looking through the list you included for a player at the top of his game who was considered the "best" player at his position in the NFL.  I honestly don't see any players on that list that would meet those criteria. 

Willie Anderson was 3 time First Team All-Pro.

Chad Johnson was 2 time First Team All-Pro and 6 time Pro Bowl.

Geno Atkins was 2 time First Team All-Pro and 8 time Pro Bowl.

AJ Green went to the Pro Bowl every year for the first 7 seasons of his career.

Bates is not even close to the level of those players. I am not bashing Bates at all.  I think he is a great player.  I hope like hell that we can keep him here.  But I don't think there is any team that would make him the highest paid safety in the league right now.  Who has said he was the best safety in the league?

[fredtoast]

(08-20-2021, 11:41 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Last Bengals TE i remember like you're describing was Rodney Holman.  

Dude could block but if i remember right didn't catch many balls per season. 

Holeman is a perfect example.  For a 6 year stretch ('85-'90) he was an elite receiver among TEs (#1 in td receptions and yard per catch, #3 in receiving yards) but he only had one season with more than 600 receiving yards.

And as much as I love David Fulcher he would be a LB in todays NFL.