Jesus Wept

[jj22]

Paola Mendoza‏Verified account @paolamendoza · 18h18 hours ago
Did any evangelical leaders at the dinner tonight ask @realDonaldTrump or @IvankaTrump about putting babies in cages?

Asking for 528 children.

[*Nately120*]

(08-28-2018, 05:30 PM)Benton Wrote:

So Jesus is an illegal immigrant? 

[ballsofsteel]

Did this family attend the dinner?

[ballsofsteel]

How about these holy people?

[*bfine32*]

(08-28-2018, 05:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So Jesus is an illegal immigrant? 

Don't think so. I seems he never traveled more than about 80 miles from his home and followed migration rules.

[Dill]

(08-28-2018, 12:12 PM)Benton Wrote: Reagan was palatable. One divorce, not a whole lot of baggage. And I believe his divorce was very amicable. I think his ex campaigned for him.

The Trump thing is weird though. The whole 'we can only have wholesome values restored by a guy with multiple ex-wives, a history of sexual/physical assault, and who has been thoroughly dishonest' is kind of amazing. It's like hiring Dahmer to prepare food for your vegetarian children.

The other thing about Reagan--he was very civil and listened to advice. He was willing to take on opponents, but didn't create fights unnecessary to his agenda.  He could see a lot farther down the road of policy consequences than Trump. And it was clear there were things he stood for and against, which were much larger than "Hillary" and "Obama." This often resulted in bad foreign and domestic policy, but it was principled policy.

Can't see him tweeting out a glamorous picture of Nancy and an ugly one of Kitty Dukakis and inviting voters to judge who was more beautiful. (Still hard to believe Trump did that to Cruz, BUT HE DID!) So low road.

[ballsofsteel]

(08-28-2018, 06:06 PM)Dill Wrote: The other thing about Reagan--he was very civil and listened to advice. He was willing to take on opponents, but didn't create fights unnecessary to his agenda.  He could see a lot farther down the road of policy consequences than Trump. And it was clear there were things he stood for and against, which were much larger than "Hillary" and "Obama." This often resulted in bad foreign and domestic policy, but it was principled policy.

Can't see him tweeting out a glamorous picture of Nancy and an ugly one of Kitty Dukakis and inviting voters to judge who was more beautiful. (Still hard to believe Trump did that to Cruz, BUT HE DID!) So low road.

Trump was just being proud of his trophy wife. He paid a lot of money for her. Give the guy a break.

[Dill]

(08-28-2018, 12:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd argue otherwise. Never before has our Leaders led this new moral standard/acceptance. Never before have they told us this is who holds our moral compass. Held a man with Trumps background on such pedestal.

They've fought against those attempts to end Christianity and suffered great losses, but never have they led these new rules of Christianity. Rules that have surely brought the credibility of the Church down.

Two quick ponts:

1. I am not a Christian, but I say Phil and Michael make good points about the DIVERSITY of Christianity. I don't bash ALL Muslims because of what this or that sect actually does. We need to be careful when making parts stand in for the whole. Lots of Christians don't support Trump. Many are ready take in immigrant families, etc.  The example of Jesus is perhaps one of the best critiques of Trumpism.

2. That said, I understand your consternation about Evangelical support. Those are the folks who generally claim to live by their religion, and the example of Jesus, with greater rigor than other sects/denominations.  When asked about it, they tend to answer that "God works through imperfect instruments."  This is far from new, however. Throughout most of the history of Christianity, in most of its variants, it taught submission to worldly rulers.  In Medieval political theory (e.g. Aquinas), bad rulers are still placed where they are by God. So you still obey them. (Their power only stops with your conscience and your books--only God disposes over that. So that can't tell you which doctrine to embrace.) You can only change those representative leaders that you contracted into power. Even Luther, the father of Protestantism, agrees that secular authorities must be obeyed in worldly matters, even when "unjust". Their depredations are chastisements from God.  The view of some/many, maybe most, Evangelicals is that Trump was put in place by God and is doing His work. So don't complain about the rest.  He is a step towards the end of the abortion holocaust; that outweighs ugly tweets about women and Jeff sessions. He stopped Hillary, who was undoing God's work.

[*Nately120*]

(08-28-2018, 05:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't think so. I seems he never traveled more than about 80 miles from his home and followed migration rules.

How dare you insinuate that Jesus isn't here, in my heart, located primarily within bumblefudge PA.

[THE Bigzoman]

It's really weird that people expect others to expect their leaders to be moral paragons.

If everyone had this standard the world wouldn't have seen several of its greatest minds and leaders.

[*Nately120*]

(08-28-2018, 10:24 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: It's really weird that people expect others to expect their leaders to be moral paragons.

If everyone had this standard the world wouldn't have seen several of its greatest minds and leaders.

You're right, I should have ignored the sleaze factor and voted for Hillary.

In all seriousness, taking issue with the decades-long rap sheet that Trump has is hardly looking for sinless perfection in a president.

[fredtoast]

(08-28-2018, 05:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't think so. I seems he never traveled more than about 80 miles from his home and followed migration rules.

His family was granted political asylum in Egypt when he was in infant.

Good thing they were not turned away by heartless a holes at the border.

[*Nately120*]

(08-29-2018, 01:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His family was granted political asylum in Egypt when he was in infant.

Good thing they were not turned away by heartless a holes at the border.

Well, if you side with the powers that be of the time, Jesus was quite the rabble-rousing troublemaker.

[fredtoast]

(08-28-2018, 04:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As a Christian, I hope true evangelicals do not turn their backs on Trump; as I would hope they do not turn their backs on anyone. It is true that Trump is a flawed man, but as my boy Jesus said "He without sin...." 

What did your boy Jesus say about people who never admitted they did anything wrong or ask for forgiveness?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-28-2018, 05:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Jesus said a lot of stuff our culture seems to ignore.

Heck, Jesus said a lot of stuff that many of his own followers seem to ignore. 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-29-2018, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What did your boy Jesus say about people who never admitted they did anything wrong or ask for forgiveness?

He never said anything bad about his mother.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-29-2018, 01:48 PM)michaelsean Wrote: He never said anything bad about his mother.

True, but he did give her attitude a couple of times. 

[*Nately120*]

(08-29-2018, 01:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Heck, Jesus said a lot of stuff that many of his own followers seem to ignore. 

I guess it depends on whether you think it is more important to follow Christ or believe he's the son of a god and tap danced on water and made magic fish sandwiches, and stuff.  I mean, you can do both...but there is some sort of division there.

[Benton]

(08-28-2018, 10:24 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: It's really weird that people expect others to expect their leaders to be moral paragons.

If everyone had this standard the world wouldn't have seen several of its greatest minds and leaders.

I don’t think religious leaders should be held to a different standard. They’re people and they fall, too.

On the other hand, if you’re buying your third corporate jet and crapping in a gold accented toilet, you aren’t setting a good example. I’d argue those who do that missed the religion part and skipped straight to the business aspect.

[fredtoast]

(08-29-2018, 01:48 PM)michaelsean Wrote: He never said anything bad about his mother.

Don't have any idea what this has to do with my comment that you quoted, but

Mathew chapter 12


46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother?