Jesus Wept

[Dill]

(08-29-2018, 09:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So are we now claiming most people who cross illegally are asylum seekers?

Depends. Are they from Norway?

[GMDino]

Meanwhile...

BatTrump is in the Battycave!

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/trump-told-christian-leaders-he-got-rid-law-he-didn-n904471

Quote:In closed-door meeting, Trump told Christian leaders he got rid of a law. He didn't.
According to recorded excerpts of private remarks, he said evangelicals were "one election away from losing everything."

President Donald Trump speaks at an event honoring evangelical leadership at the White House on Monday, Aug. 27, 2018.Mandel Ngan / AFP - Getty Images


In a closed-door meeting with evangelical leaders Monday night, President Donald Trump repeated his debunked claim that he had gotten "rid of" a law forbidding churches and charitable organizations from endorsing political candidates, according to recorded excerpts reviewed by NBC News.
In fact, the law remains on the books, after efforts to kill it in Congress last year failed.




But Trump cited this alleged accomplishment as one in a series of gains he has made for his conservative Christian supporters, as he warned, "You're one election away from losing everything that you've got," and said their opponents were "violent people" who would overturn these gains "violently."


Trump addressed the law and the upcoming midterms in private remarks Monday during a dinner with evangelical supporters at the White House after the press had left.

At stake in the November midterms, Trump told the audience, are all the gains he has made for conservative Christians.


"The level of hatred, the level of anger is unbelievable," he said. "Part of it is because of some of the things I've done for you and for me and for my family, but I've done them. … This Nov. 6 election is very much a referendum on not only me, it's a referendum on your religion, it's a referendum on free speech and the First Amendment."

If the GOP loses, he said, "they will overturn everything that we've done and they'll do it quickly and violently, and violently. There's violence. When you look at Antifa and you look at some of these groups — these are violent people."
[/url]



Trump courts evangelicals by taking credit for Johnson Amendment
AUG.29.201805:29

[url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Trump%20courts%20evangelicals%20by%20taking%20credit%20for%20Johnson%20Amendment&via=nbcnews&url=https://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/trump-courts-evangelicals-by-taking-credit-for-johnson-amendment-1309022787544&original_referer=https://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/trump-courts-evangelicals-by-taking-credit-for-johnson-amendment-1309022787544]
The law that Trump says he got rid of is the so-called Johnson Amendment, a provision inserted into law in 1954 by then-senator and future President Lyndon Johnson of Texas, who was miffed that a conservative nonprofit group was helping his opponent.


The law says churches and charities "are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office."


"Now one of the things I'm most proud of is getting rid of the Johnson Amendment," the president said. "That was a disaster for you."

The president doesn't have the power to repeal a law — only Congress can do that. The Supreme Court can also rule a law unconstitutional, but that has not happened in this case.


In May 2017, Trump signed an executive order that purported to ease enforcement of the Johnson Amendment. But experts — and the American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes repeal of the provision — say the Trump order was basically toothless.


"It does almost nothing," Gregory Magarian, a constitutional law professor at Washington University Law School.


Politifact, the nonpartisan fact-checking organization, rated Trump's claim that he had gotten rid of the Johnson Amendment "mostly false" when he first made it publicly in July 2017.

The law forbids religious organizations and other charities from formally endorsing candidates if they want to retain their federal tax exemption.

Trump's executive order instructs the Treasury Department not to "take any adverse action against any individual, house of worship, or other religious organization on the basis that such individual or organization speaks or has spoken about moral or political issues from a religious perspective, where speech of similar character has, consistent with law, not ordinarily been treated as participation or intervention in a political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) a candidate for public office … "
President Donald Trump speaks during a dinner for evangelical leaders in the State Dining Room of the White House, Monday, Aug. 27, 2018, in Washington.Alex Brandon / AP


In other words, religious organizations can express their religious views, as they always could — but still cannot formally participate in political campaigns.



Trump said to the religious leaders at the White House: "Now you're not silenced anymore. It's gone and there's no penalty anymore and if you like somebody or if you don't like somebody you can go out and say, 'This man is going to be great for evangelicals, or for Christianity or for another religion. This person is somebody that I like and I'm going to talk about it on Sunday."

In practice, there has been nothing stopping anyone from doing that. The Johnson Amendment doesn't prohibit individual speech, and it has rarely been enforced.


More than 2,000 mainly evangelical Christian clergy have deliberately violated the law since 2008 as a form of protest against it, but only one has been audited by the IRS, and none punished, according to the Alliance Defending Freedom, a pro-religious group.


A provision to overturn the amendment was included in last year's tax cut bill, but it was ultimately removed for procedural reasons.


Trump "doesn't have the legal authority to overturn the Johnson Amendment," Magarian said.

"You would think," Magarian added, "that the conservative religious leaders would get impatient at the continued repetition of that claim" that Trump has repealed it.


In the beginning of his private remarks to the evangelical leaders, Trump cited a comment he said was made by Robert Jeffress, a Southern Baptist leader who is one of his religious allies


"I had the great Robert Jeffress back there. Hello, Robert. Who said about me: He may not be the perfect human being, but he is the greatest leader for Christianity," Trump said to applause and laughter.
He added: "Hopefully I've proven that to be a fact in terms of the second part. Not the first part."

Later, Trump raised an issue that has become fodder for late night comedy shows.

"Little thing — Merry Christmas. You couldn't say Merry Christmas," Trump said. "I'm telling you — when I started running I used to talk about it and I hate to mention it in August, but I used to talk about it. They don't say Merry Christmas anymore."
Trump added, to applause: "They say Merry Christmas a lot right now. It's all changed. It's all changed."

AS a side note:  Given his complete lack of understanding, refusal to learn and belief only in what he says and does, do you think he thinks that everytime he signs something it is automatically a law?  

[jj22]

Let me save everyone the time to reply on this busy Thursday...

It's Hillary's fault and the Fake News Media should apologize for the lie.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-29-2018, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So many of them just mindlessly support/vote for what their leaders tell them.

Which could be said of most groups involved in American politics. Why single out Christianity?

(08-29-2018, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why did he refuse to talk to his own mother?

Nowhere does it say he refused to talk to his mother. For all we know, after he made his point, he went and talked with her. In any event, he was using this situation as a "teaching moment" to show that we are ALL brothers and sisters, that we are ALL family under God. Some go so far as to say that Jesus, here, is saying that our spiritual family is MORE important than our earthly family. I don't know if I'd go that far, myself, but in any event Jesus was not being rude or disrespectful to his mother.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-29-2018, 05:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: Because I am a Christian and these are weapons used to attack us and how can I blame people for questioning the legitimacy of our beliefs when the hypocrisy is there for everyone to judge.

Fair enough.

(08-29-2018, 05:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's politics that has ruined religion. It's our religious leaders that prompt up people like Trump and Kim (who had 3 husbands and cheated on all of them, had kids by men she was cheating with while married, and yet we praised her for standing for the sanctity of marriage). We keep doing this and we keep seeing people flee the religion. 

I agree that hypocrisy is a huge problem in Christianity that drives people away, but I don't think it's the religious leaders' hypocrisy that's causing the problem, it's the local leaders' and the local members' hypocrisy that is far more devastating to Christianity than any single religious leader in Washington D.C.

(08-29-2018, 05:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: Just because I don't support Trump doesn't mean I'm not a Christian. Not sure what I've ever done to give you the assumption outside of criticizing Trump and being Pro America and Pro Vets.

It has nothing to do with your criticism of Trump. I just didn't see you as a Christian. That's all.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-30-2018, 10:39 AM)GMDino Wrote: See is this what I (we?) mean when we say these "Christians" are just whores.

They "care" about religion as far as it gets them more power and money.  Best way to do that is to saddle up to one party and ride it them for all their worth.

So they have to make the INCREDIBLE mental gymnastics it takes to support Trump just so their sheep (their word, not mine) believe they are fighting for "God's work" to be done.

Also...sart tithing you slovenly jerks!

Going with my earlier post questioning why care if religious leaders are hypocrites: I personally don't care if ANY leader - religious or otherwise - is attacked for their blatant hypocrisy like this. I just don't see the need to single out an entire nebulous group like "religious leaders".

[GMDino]

(08-30-2018, 04:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Going with my earlier post questioning why care if religious leaders are hypocrites: I personally don't care if ANY leader - religious or otherwise - is attacked for their blatant hypocrisy like this. I just don't see the need to single out an entire nebulous group like "religious leaders".

I care if ANYONE is a hypocrite.  But these "leaders" have followings.  They have sheep that believe everything they say.  And when the leader is as false as the one quoted I want their sheep to hear it.

Will they believe me?  Probably not.  If they had the ability to see these "men" for what they really are they wouldn't be hseep any way.

I don't see the need to DEFEND one group over the other just because of your religious beliefs.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-30-2018, 04:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: I care if ANYONE is a hypocrite.  But these "leaders" have followings.  They have sheep that believe everything they say.  And when the leader is as false as the one quoted I want their sheep to hear it.

Will they believe me?  Probably not.  If they had the ability to see these "men" for what they really are they wouldn't be hseep any way.

Good for you and more power to you. Just don't lump everyone together (for example saying ALL Christian leaders are hypocrites because of this one quote by Graham - which, btw, I am NOT saying is what you are doing) and you won't have to worry about me saying anything. 

Not that I think you worry about what I'll say or anything.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 04:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Which could be said of most groups involved in American politics. Why single out Christianity?

Actually most political groups can cite facts to support their position.  Christians are the only ones who brag about ignoring facts in order to maintain their beliefs.

"That is why it is called 'faith'."

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 04:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  I just don't see the need to single out an entire nebulous group like "religious leaders".

Nothing "nebulous" about the large group of evangelical leaders who support Trump and were invited to the White House.  They are very real.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-30-2018, 06:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing "nebulous" about the large group of evangelical leaders who support Trump and were invited to the White House.  They are very real.

Yes, but can you prove that ALL of those that went are hypocrites? No, you cannot.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 06:50 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, but can you prove that ALL of those that went are hypocrites? No, you cannot.

Yes I can.  Every single person who has said anything about it described it as a Trump love fest without a single dissent in the room.

I can post a bunch of links if you want.

And as usual you can't post jack to support your position.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-30-2018, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes I can.  Every single person who has said anything about it described it as a Trump love fest without a single dissent in the room.

And? How does that make ALL of those who attended hypocrites?

(08-30-2018, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can post a bunch of links if you want.

Please do. Please post a bunch of links that say that every single Christian leader that went to this thing is a hypocrite.

(08-30-2018, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And as usual you can't post jack to support your position.

Says the guy who routinely makes claims without backing them up and then expects anyone who disagrees to back up their claim.

[fredtoast]

(08-31-2018, 06:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And? How does that make ALL of those who attended hypocrites?

Because they claim to be supporting him based on their Christian morals and Trump is a liar, a crooked businessman, and has cheated on all three of his wives.

[fredtoast]

(08-31-2018, 06:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Says the guy who routinely makes claims without backing them up and then expects anyone who disagrees to back up their claim.

I never make claims with out anything to back them up.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-31-2018, 06:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because they claim to be supporting him based on their Christian morals and Trump is a liar, a crooked businessman, and has cheated on all three of his wives.

And every single person who went to the event supports Trump? 
And every single person who went to the event supports Trump based on their Christian morals?
And every single person who went to the event supports Trump because of his honesty, high caliber business ethics and his lack of infidelity?

(08-31-2018, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never make claims with out anything to back them up.

You have yet to back up your claim that every single person who attended this event is a hypocrite sooooooooooooooooooo ...

[fredtoast]

(08-31-2018, 06:53 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You have yet to back up your claim that every single person who attended this event is a hypocrite sooooooooooooooooooo ...

Every single person at this event was invited because he/she was an evangelical leader.  Other than Trump staff and assistants the event was limited just to evangelical leaders.  Do you dispute this is true.

Every single person at this event supports Trump.  If they did not then they would not have been invited in the first place.  Do you dispute this is true?

Trump is a liar, a crooked businessman, and has cheated on all three of his wives.  Do you dispute this is true?



I remember you tried this same lame logic to prove that there was no white privilege in the Jim Crow south because some white people were poor. I am starting to feel a little embarrassed for you.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2018, 05:36 PM)jj22 Wrote: Paola Mendoza‏Verified account @paolamendoza · 18h18 hours ago  
Did any evangelical leaders at the dinner tonight ask @realDonaldTrump or @IvankaTrump about putting babies in cages?

Asking for 528 children.

Boo hoo.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-history-of-putting-families-in-cages-didnt-start-with-trump-2018-6

[Vlad]

(08-28-2018, 10:32 AM)jj22 Wrote: Evangelical Leaders once again sell Christianity out for Trump...

No they didn't.
Didn't you know that many Evangelical Christians and  Z Jews regard Trump as the modern day Persian King Cyrus?

An ungodly man, nevertheless chosen by God to save his people!

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2018, 12:30 PM)Vlad Wrote: No they didn't.
Didn't you know that many Evangelical Christians and  Z Jews regard Trump as the modern day Persian King Cyrus?

An ungodly man, nevertheless chosen by God to save his people!

Finally, a rational argument!