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People who talk a lot will sometimes say things they regret. Then they apologize later.
This is not an "apology". This is trying to explain away what he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/feb/05/joe-rogan-apologises-for-using-n-word-and-racist-planet-of-the-apes-story?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1644074423
Quote:The podcast host Joe Rogan has offered “sincere and humble apologies” after footage emerged of him repeatedly using the N-word on his hit show.
The comedian, 54, who has a lucrative deal with the streaming giant Spotify, said it was the “most regretful and shameful thing” he has ever had to speak about, but stressed the clips were “taken out of context”.
Rogan has come under fire recently for sharing coronavirus misinformation on his hugely popular podcast The Joe Rogan Experience.
Prominent musicians including Neil Young and Joni Mitchell have withdrawn their music from the service over its decision to continue hosting the show, which was reportedly acquired for more than $100m (£77m) in 2020.
The musician India Arie has also announced she would leave the streaming service in protest, saying she objected to Rogan’s “language around race”.
She shared an edited compilation of clips of Rogan using the N-word more than 20 times on her Instagram account.
Addressing the montage in a video posted on his own Instagram account, Rogan said: “I’m making this video to talk about the most regretful and shameful thing that I’ve ever had to talk about publicly.
“There’s a video that’s out, that’s a compilation of me saying the N-word. It’s a video that’s made of clips taken out of context of me of … 12 years of conversations on my podcast, and it’s all smushed together, and it looks ******’ horrible, even to me.
“Now I know that to most people there’s no context where a white person is ever allowed to say that word, never mind publicly on a podcast, and I agree with that.
“Now, I haven’t said it in years, but for a long time, when I would bring that word up, like if it would come up in conversation, instead of saying ‘the N-word’, I would just say the word.
“I thought as long as it was in context, people would understand what I was doing.”
Rogan said in some of the clips in the compilation he was quoting other people or referring to the title of a Richard Pryor comedy album, and in another instance he is discussing how it is “an unusual word”, adding: “It’s a word where only one group of people is allowed to use it, they can use in so many different ways. But it’s not my word to use, I’m well aware of that now.”
Rogan also addressed a clip that Arie shared of him telling an anecdote in which he appeared to compare being around black people with the film Planet of the Apes.
He said: “I was telling a story in the podcast about how me and my friend Tommy and his girlfriend, we got really high, we’re in Philadelphia, and we went to go see Planet of the Apes.
“We didn’t know where we were going, we just got dropped off by a cab, and we got dropped off in this all-black neighbourhood.
“And I was trying to make the story entertaining and I said: ‘We got out, and it was like we were in Africa, like we were in Planet of the Apes.’
“I did not, nor would I ever, say that black people are apes, but it sure ******’ sounded like that.
“And I immediately afterwards said: ‘That’s a racist thing to say.’”
Rogan said he had deleted the podcast and admitted it was “an idiotic thing to say”, adding: “I was just trying to be entertaining. I certainly wasn’t trying to be racist, and I certainly would never want to offend someone for entertainment with something as stupid as racism.”
He added:
“My sincere and humble apologies. I wish there was more that I could say.”
Rogan has previously attracted controversy for suggesting that the young and healthy should not get vaccinated.
And context DOES matter. Repeating the name of an album isn't as bad as, say, calling an African American neighborhood "The planet of the apes" and then saying "hey, I never said they WERE apes!"
Once again someone has been made famous for no reason and now people think he speaks some kind of "Truth" because other people point out his falsehoods.
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He has done a lot of stand up comedy. I am of the opinion stand up comics are allowed to say whatever they want.
The fact he has podcasts now where he sits around and gets high and talks about all types of crazy shit doesn't hurt my feelings.
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(02-05-2022, 04:06 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He has done a lot of stand up comedy. I am of the opinion stand up comics are allowed to say whatever they want.
The fact he has podcasts now where he sits around and gets high and talks about all types of crazy shit doesn't hurt my feelings.
Mine either. Never listened because three hours of him is too long for me personally no matter the subject.
But I also realize there are millions of people who think he's the go to for "real" information...lol.
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Dan Crenshaw, showing incredible timing as always, tweeted this AFTER Spotify started taking down the Rogan episodes (70+ the last I saw) which had racial slurs in them:
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(02-05-2022, 02:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: GMDino
Jaw-dropping. The apology for "mere conversation" as much as the videos Rogan chose to give wider audience.
People ought to use occasions like this not to tsk tsk and shame and "cancel," but to clarify what racism is first.
The 19th century anthropology-based racism founded in the U.S. and elaborated by the NAZIs not only assumed there was a biological category of "race," but also that particular social and cultural traits were genetically ingrained into each--e.g., a Jewish or Slavic or Nordic "mind"--which became the basis for assembling racial hierarchies and social planning.
Someone speaking of black male bodies combined with a "white mind" is working from that conceptual ground.
But given the general ignorance of what racism is (among members of all "races," thank you Whoopi) most people who think like Rogen do not think their thinking and social assumptions about others are grounded in racism.
The silliness is of Rogan's comments can is illustrated with the example of black and white twins from the same black and white parents, and one must ask if the white twin got a "black mind" and the black twin got a "white mind," or was there no separation at all, the white twin getting both white mind and body, the black getting black, etc. One's knowledge of genetic science has to be nil to even consider such formulations seriously.
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Is he the guy that used to do that show where you had to do gross things like eat bugs or am I thinking of someone else?
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I honestly thought Joe Rogan was a WWF wrestler or something until this past week. Sounds like another Howard Stern.
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(02-07-2022, 05:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Is he the guy that used to do that show where you had to do gross things like eat bugs or am I thinking of someone else?
Of all the things I've seen, the fact that people eating gross stuff was prime-time, mainstream entertainment blew my mind the most. We all knew at least one guy who would grab worms off the ground and eat them to weird people out, but fast forward and stuff like that was regular viewing for people who had their lives together.
I was in college when Fear Factor and Jackass were big, and I recall seeing dudes on any given night running head-first into walls jumping off the roof and other stupid stuff. I guess we're really blown it as a society in the past 20 years or so.
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(02-07-2022, 05:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Of all the things I've seen, the fact that people eating gross stuff was prime-time, mainstream entertainment blew my mind the most. We all knew at least one guy who would grab worms off the ground and eat them to weird people out, but fast forward and stuff like that was regular viewing for people who had their lives together.
I was in college when Fear Factor and Jackass were big, and I recall seeing dudes on any given night running head-first into walls jumping off the roof and other stupid stuff. I guess we're really blown it as a society in the past 20 years or so.
It hasn't gotten any better. The Fox nightly lineup is the most mind numbing slate of shows I could ever imagine.
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WTF is Joe Rogan and why does he matter? Plus, Spotify is lame and will lose existence in a few years.
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That Planet of the Apes story is, objectively, a racist story. Now, Joe says he isn't a racist, but he only says that because he has it in his head that a "racist" is only someone who looks at a black person and rage fills their heart.
He doesn't realize that casual or comedic racism is still racism. I know why he told that story the way he did. He was going to see a movie, Planet of the Apes and he happened to go to a black neighborhood. There's a long standing racist trope that black people behave like or look like apes. So in his brain, he linked the two and made a joke. He thought of it as a clever quip.
He wasn't, in that moment, thinking "I'm going to insult black people in 3...2...1...." so, in his mind, he isn't racist.
He didn't invent the racist link between black people and apes. He didn't even necessarily endorse the link. But his mind is geared that way because of years of exposure to those racist tropes.
In a way, Joe Rogan and his Planet of the Apes story is the perfect encapsulation of what it means when you say "racism is ingrained in our society and culture."
Or, to put it another way, that our society is systemically racist.
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(02-08-2022, 02:49 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That Planet of the Apes story is, objectively, a racist story. Now, Joe says he isn't a racist, but he only says that because he has it in his head that a "racist" is only someone who looks at a black person and rage fills their heart.
He doesn't realize that casual or comedic racism is still racism. I know why he told that story the way he did. He was going to see a movie, Planet of the Apes and he happened to go to a black neighborhood. There's a long standing racist trope that black people behave like or look like apes. So in his brain, he linked the two and made a joke. He thought of it as a clever quip.
He wasn't, in that moment, thinking "I'm going to insult black people in 3...2...1...." so, in his mind, he isn't racist.
He didn't invent the racist link between black people and apes. He didn't even necessarily endorse the link. But his mind is geared that way because of years of exposure to those racist tropes.
In a way, Joe Rogan and his Planet of the Apes story is the perfect encapsulation of what it means when you say "racism is ingrained in our society and culture."
Or, to put it another way, that our society is systemically racist.
Racist tropes exist about literally every single ethnicity, and within those ethnicities nationalities as well (I could go into this among Mexico/Central American countries for literally hours). If you're familiar with any of them, and if you're a living human who either leaves their home or has TV/internet access you are, you're going to naturally make those mental connections. This isn't even a conscious process. Pointing out the connection, or speaking on it, does not mean the person speaking is racist. Also, making a racial joke is not inherently racist, comedy has always been about needling each other over our small differences. I guess this is mostly a long winded way of saying intent is extremely important. If Joe Rogan is racist he's done an outstanding job, for decades, of concealing his anti-black racism from his black friends and colleagues.
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(02-07-2022, 06:47 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: WTF is Joe Rogan and why does he matter? Plus, Spotify is lame and will lose existence in a few years.
Not the point of this thread but Spotify is absolutely amazing. You sound like you hate music. :) (No i don't really think you hate music)
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(02-08-2022, 03:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Racist tropes exist about literally every single ethnicity, and within those ethnicities nationalities as well (I could go into this among Mexico/Central American countries for literally hours). If you're familiar with any of them, and if you're a living human who either leaves their home or has TV/internet access you are, you're going to naturally make those mental connections. This isn't even a conscious process. Pointing out the connection, or speaking on it, does not mean the person speaking is racist. Also, making a racial joke is not inherently racist, comedy has always been about needling each other over our small differences. I guess this is mostly a long winded way of saying intent is extremely important. If Joe Rogan is racist he's done an outstanding job, for decades, of concealing his anti-black racism from his black friends and colleagues.
Did you quote me to agree with me? Because I didn't call Joe racist. Or if I did, I didn't intend to. It sounds like you agree that a lot of things like this are due to systemic, societal racism ingrained in our society rather than the personal thoughts of Joe.
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(02-08-2022, 03:07 PM)basballguy Wrote: Not the point of this thread but Spotify is absolutely amazing. You sound like you hate music. :) (No i don't really think you hate music)
I had a subscription about 5yrs ago. Didn't work for me.
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(02-08-2022, 03:19 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Did you quote me to agree with me? Because I didn't call Joe racist. Or if I did, I didn't intend to. It sounds like you agree that a lot of things like this are due to systemic, societal racism ingrained in our society rather than the personal thoughts of Joe.
I was adding on to your points and making a few of my own. 
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(02-08-2022, 02:49 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That Planet of the Apes story is, objectively, a racist story. Now, Joe says he isn't a racist, but he only says that because he has it in his head that a "racist" is only someone who looks at a black person and rage fills their heart.
He doesn't realize that casual or comedic racism is still racism. I know why he told that story the way he did. He was going to see a movie, Planet of the Apes and he happened to go to a black neighborhood. There's a long standing racist trope that black people behave like or look like apes. So in his brain, he linked the two and made a joke. He thought of it as a clever quip.
He wasn't, in that moment, thinking "I'm going to insult black people in 3...2...1...." so, in his mind, he isn't racist.
He didn't invent the racist link between black people and apes. He didn't even necessarily endorse the link. But his mind is geared that way because of years of exposure to those racist tropes.
In a way, Joe Rogan and his Planet of the Apes story is the perfect encapsulation of what it means when you say "racism is ingrained in our society and culture."
Or, to put it another way, that our society is systemically racist.
Excellent analysis. Remember the comparisons of Michelle Obama to a "gorilla"?
I only differ from the bolded in that I think people who make ape/black jokes ARE endorsing the supposed "link" between black people and apes. They help to naturalize what its a specific cultural inheritance, explain it away as a "natural" visual association anyone anywhere could make.
Nothing gets the Right agitated quite like the assertion, or even just the implication, there can be racists who don't know they are racists.
But that "unknowing" racist is the corollary of any conception of "systemic racism" that I am aware of. Keeping that unknowing unknown is the only way systemic racism can continue, and critique from it be deflected, in a liberal democracy founded on natural equality.
When we are speaking of comedy, the latter serves as one public platform upon which racial issues and boundaries are defined and policed, and where people may have permission to say things they cannot in other venues. Arguments about Rogan's comments look mostly like arguments about what racist discourse really looks like and whether it really has any social effect, such as shoring up existing racism and reviving permission for racist inflected humor as it existed in the 60s and 70s.
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(02-08-2022, 04:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Excellent analysis. Remember the comparisons of Michelle Obama to a "gorilla"?
No, no one remembers that. /s
Quote:I only differ from the bolded in that I think people who make ape/black jokes ARE endorsing the supposed "link" between black people and apes. They help to naturalize what its a specific cultural inheritance, explain it away as a "natural" visual association anyone anywhere could make.
Of course you do, because you, like many far left people, see racism everywhere. An interesting assertion, that racism requires no mens rea. Also, your underlined is a gross, and IMO deliberate, mischaracterization of what is being argued. No one views it as "natural", we view it as common knowledge. Like any racist trope about any ethnicity, it's not a secret. Hence people, of all races, will automatically make mental connections between a situation, occurrence or action that aligns with that trope. Making that connection in no way implicates that person as a racist, it merely reveals they are aware of the trope. In order for a person to be racist there has to be intent to be racist. You may say something racist without having racist intent, but that absolutely does not make a person racist. It is only when the statement is deliberate in its intent to be racist that we can infer the true feeling of the person uttering them. Under your overly simplistic definition nearly every single stand up comedian in the past forty years is a racist.
Quote:Nothing gets the Right agitated quite like the assertion, or even just the implication, there can be racists who don't know they are racists.
Any logical person would bridle at such an inane assertion. Let's use a stereotypical example; an older white lady grabs her purse tightly when a black man enters an elevator with her. If she is unconsciously reacting to implicit bias, that does not make her a racist. Now, if she knowingly grabbed her purse tighter because she consciously believes black men are all criminals, or criminally inclined, that would be conscious racism. But we cannot assign racist intent to her simply because of the action itself. For example, maybe that same lady was brutally mugged by a black man five years ago, and the memories of this occurrence unconsciously makes her react as she did. This does not make her racist. Your position is why accusations of racism are watered down to the point where they almost have no meaning anymore. You're so quick to slap the label on people that the term has lost all real power.
Quote:But that "unknowing" racist is the corollary of any conception of "systemic racism" that I am aware of. Keeping that unknowing unknown is the only way systemic racism can continue, and critique from it be deflected, in a liberal democracy founded on natural equality.
Again, incorrect. Your entire premise is based on the flawed assertion that unknowingly committing a racist act makes a person a closet or "unknowing" racist. You can certainly have unconscious biases, but you absolutely cannot be an unknowing racist.
Quote:When we are speaking of comedy, the latter serves as one public platform upon which racial issues and boundaries are defined and policed, and where people may have permission to say things they cannot in other venues. Arguments about Rogan's comments look mostly like arguments about what racist discourse really looks like and whether it really has any social effect, such as shoring up existing racism and reviving permission for racist inflected humor as it existed in the 60s and 70s.
As it existed in the 60s and 70s? Tell me you haven't seen a standup comedy routine in the past forty years without telling me you haven't seen a standup comedy special in the last forty years. Dave Chappelle, easily one of the greatest stand up comics in history, alone is proof of just how out of touch your opinion on this issue is.
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(02-08-2022, 06:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:Nothing gets the Right agitated quite like the assertion, or even just the implication, there can be racists who don't know they are racists.
Any logical person would bridle at such an inane assertion. Let's use a stereotypical example; an older white lady grabs her purse tightly when a black man enters an elevator with her. If she is unconsciously reacting to implicit bias, that does not make her a racist. Now, if she knowingly grabbed her purse tighter because she consciously believes black men are all criminals, or criminally inclined, that would be conscious racism. But we cannot assign racist intent to her simply because of the action itself. For example, maybe that same lady was brutally mugged by a black man five years ago, and the memories of this occurrence unconsciously makes her react as she did. This does not make her racist. Your position is why accusations of racism are watered down to the point where they almost have no meaning anymore. You're so quick to slap the label on people that the term has lost all real power.
LOL this isn't the best way to refute that claim that nothing gets the right agitated quite like the assertion/implication that there can be racists who don't know they are racists.
And what is my "position"? It certainly doesn't define purse-clutching women in elevators as "racist" just because they clutch purses. And imagining a woman in an elevator who clutches a purse for some other reason than race hardly proves real live people can only be racist when they intend to.
You don't appear able to summarize my position accurately, correctly identify its premises or offer relevant counter examples.
And you don't yourself appear to have a very clear definition of what "racism" is, or how that term would be defined in history/social/political science domains today. You've called me "racist" at least twice in this forum and at least twice you claimed I called you the same, though you could produce no actual statement/evidence. There was no conceptual consistency or consistent definition in any of those moments, just an accuse-first-or-be-accused fear response.
Would it be fair to say that your understanding of current debates over what racism has never gone beyond news articles and youtube? You've not read any books or lengthy essays or other research which explores these issues in depth?
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