John McCain

[fredtoast]

(09-03-2018, 03:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll admit that I was saddened that she somehow made Trump the star of the show. 

She never mentioned Trumps name.  All she did was praise certain positive elements of humanity and criticize nasty unpleasant elements.  What makes you think she was talking about Trump?  




Honestly the only thing you are "saddened" by is that fact that McCain got the last word on your boy.  Sorry that makes you so sad.

[*Nately120*]

(09-03-2018, 11:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That is something that should be noted about the entire service. No one mentioned Trump, they talked about American ideals and what we should be as a nation. I think it says something that those statements were universally seen as jabs at Trump.

This is pretty interesting.

Trump Supporter - Politicians are scumbags, particularly democrats and Hillary Clinton!
Rational Person - We need more decency and respect in politics.
Trump Supporter - Quit attacking Trump!



On an amusing note, the next time I hear someone criticize any character trait without mentioning names, I'm going to throw a fit and storm out of the room as if I'm being personally attacked.  

[*bfine32*]

(09-04-2018, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: She never mentioned Trumps name.  All she did was praise certain positive elements of humanity and criticize nasty unpleasant elements.  What makes you think she was talking about Trump?  




Honestly the only thing you are "saddened" by is that fact that McCain got the last word on your boy.  Sorry that makes you so sad.

2 things:

1. As I told Matt, if you want to roll with the "she wasn't talking about Trump" stance; then go for it. Given, Matt did reply and confirm he did believe she was talking about Trump. So my faith in his cognitive reasoning was restored.

2. There is no comparing to amount of respect I had for McCain that I do for Trump. McCain was a true American hero that sacrificed much for thi country; all Trump has done is take.

WTS, it doesn't change my view that his remembrance was cheapened somewhat by he daughter focusing on Trump. Unless you believe comments such as "This America doesn't need to be made great again" were done with no one in mind.

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2018, 11:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 2 things:

1. As I told Matt, if you want to roll with the "she wasn't talking about Trump" stance; then go for it. Given, Matt did reply and confirm he did believe she was talking about Trump. So my faith in his cognitive reasoning was restored.

2. There is no comparing to amount of respect I had for McCain that I do for Trump. McCain was a true American hero that sacrificed much for thi country; all Trump has done is take.

WTS, it doesn't change my view that his remembrance was cheapened somewhat by he daughter focusing on Trump. Unless you believe comments such as "This America doesn't need to be made great again" were done with no one in mind.

I also believe it was about Trump, but you have to admit it is interesting that in a country where you can get practically everyone to agree that politicians are awful, one single politician in particular springs to mind when the awfulness of politicians is brought up without mentioning names.

I still hold out hope that at least one person watched that and heard her calling out politicians and thought "Wow, get Trump on the phone...she's going after Hilary!"

[GMDino]

(09-04-2018, 11:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: 2 things:

1. As I told Matt, if you want to roll with the "she wasn't talking about Trump" stance; then go for it. Given, Matt did reply and confirm he did believe she was talking about Trump. So my faith in his cognitive reasoning was restored.

2. There is no comparing to amount of respect I had for McCain that I do for Trump. McCain was a true American hero that sacrificed much for thi country; all Trump has done is take.

WTS, it doesn't change my view that his remembrance was cheapened somewhat by he daughter focusing on Trump. Unless you believe comments such as "This America doesn't need to be made great again" were done with no one in mind.

See, I saw that line of thought at the memorial as GOOD for the country.  We have had Trump's time in office and his time campaigning (not including the campaigning he still does now) as a time of disgusting politics.  A "man" who name calls and hides behind his twitter page.  A "man" who disparages GOOD people like McCain.

Focusing on the GOOD things that someone like John McCain stood for and the GOOD way he behaved isn't just a slam against Trump.  It's a call to return to that way of behaving for ALL.

The fact that the current POTUS is the poster boy for bad behavior just upsets his defenders/supporters because they want people to treat HIM with respect and then throw left-handed shade at him for "not acting very presidential sometimes".

If McCain's eulogies had been EXACTLY the same without Trump in office would it have bothered you?  Probably not.  But you think your boy was being insulted.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

[*bfine32*]

(09-04-2018, 11:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: See, I saw that line of thought at the memorial as GOOD for the country.  We have had Trump's time in office and his time campaigning (not including the campaigning he still does now) as a time of disgusting politics.  A "man" who name calls and hides behind his twitter page.  A "man" who disparages GOOD people like McCain.

Focusing on the GOOD things that someone like John McCain stood for and the GOOD way he behaved isn't just a slam against Trump.  It's a call to return to that way of behaving for ALL.

The fact that the current POTUS is the poster boy for bad behavior just upsets his defenders/supporters because they want people to treat HIM with respect and then throw left-handed shade at him for "not acting very presidential sometimes".

If McCain's eulogies had been EXACTLY the same without Trump in office would it have bothered you?  Probably not.  But you think your boy was being insulted.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

I'll put you in the group with Fred that thinks her comments were not directly pointed at Trump.

As to the bolded question I doubt it would have been exactly the same. I doubt she uses Trump's tagline in her speech or talks about the entitled that did nothing while her father sacrificed. But yeah, the "while the entitled did nothing" line would have probably still rubbed me the wrong way. You can praise sacrifice without slurring those that did not.

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2018, 11:32 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll put you in the group with Fred that thinks her comments were not directly pointed at Trump.

As to the bolded question I doubt it would have been exactly the same. I doubt she uses Trump's tagline in her speech or talks about the entitled that did nothing while her father sacrificed. But yeah, the "while the entitled did nothing" line would have probably still rubbed me the wrong way. You can praise sacrifice without slurring those that did not.

Yes, but don't you think Trump may have said or done some things over the years that made him more deserving of such a slur than the myriad of other people/politicians who didn't serve? 

[Benton]

(09-04-2018, 11:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote:   Unless you believe comments such as "This America doesn't need to be made great again" were done with no one in mind.

I do think she was taking some jabs at Trump, but I don't think this one is necessarily directed at him, more the mindset of the alt-right that many in the GOP feel aren't good for their party (similar to how many Democrats feel far left liberals aren't good for their party). Over the last several years the alt-right has been selling the story that America needs fixed. It gained some momentum because long-time GOP faithful like McConnell stuck with the mantra that liberals had wrecked the country, unknowingly empowering some of the alt-right. But I think many of them realize they were throwing gas on the wrong fire, and now they're hoping it burns itself out so they can get back to business as usual.

[GMDino]

(09-04-2018, 11:32 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll put you in the group with Fred that thinks her comments were not directly pointed at Trump.

Put me in the group that it says it is because of people LIKE Trump that we even have to have the conversation.

Trump is just the poster boy....and that makes you upset.

(09-04-2018, 11:32 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the bolded question I doubt it would have been exactly the same. I doubt she uses Trump's tagline in her speech or talks about the entitled that did nothing while her father sacrificed. But yeah, the "while the entitled did nothing" line would have probably still rubbed me the wrong way. You can praise sacrifice without slurring those that did not.

You're being less than genuine (surprise) by focusing on one line.

Seems you will twist it to defend your boy even if means slighting McCain's family as the mourn. Good on you.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Meghan is perfectly entitled to do what she did. It is her father's funeral. That said, I'm more in the Bfine camp on this one, it's tacky to take shots at anyone during a funeral. We're ok with politicizing funerals now too? Is there any venue left in our society where we can take a break from politics?

[*bfine32*]

(09-04-2018, 11:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes, but don't you think Trump may have said or done some things over the years that made him more deserving of such a slur than the myriad of other people/politicians who didn't serve? 

Sure do and that's one of the reasons I am fully aware to whom she was referring. Fred and Dino apparently think she was speaking in generalities.

[fredtoast]

(09-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  it's tacky to take shots at anyone during a funeral.  

A funeral is about the deceased's last wishes.  When you look at the plans McCain himself made it is clear he wanted to make a statement by specifically excluding Trump.

He probably told his daughter "Criticize being an asshole without using any names and see what the Trump lovers say."

[GMDino]

(09-04-2018, 11:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yes, but don't you think Trump may have said or done some things over the years that made him more deserving of such a slur than the myriad of other people/politicians who didn't serve? 

(09-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Benton Wrote: I do think she was taking some jabs at Trump, but I don't think this one is necessarily directed at him, more the mindset of the alt-right that many in the GOP feel aren't good for their party (similar to how many Democrats feel far left liberals aren't good for their party). Over the last several years the alt-right has been selling the story that America needs fixed. It gained some momentum because long-time GOP faithful like McConnell stuck with the mantra that liberals had wrecked the country, unknowingly empowering some of the alt-right. But I think many of them realize they were throwing gas on the wrong fire, and now they're hoping it burns itself out so they can get back to business as usual.

All this haranguing about "Trump be slurred" is just further proof that his supporters/defenders are as bad as he is.  

Trump was told not to come.

Trump wasn't mentioned by name.  

That drives him and them crazy.

So they have to find SOME way to be outraged and get mad.

It's their only true emotion.

So they focus on people asking others to NOT act badly.  To get along.  To honor those who sacrificed.  And to NOT disparage those who did if they did not.

And the Trump supporters/defenders say it was ALL about Trump...because he is their idol and they have to defend him no matter what.

It's laughable...and it's sad.

[GMDino]

(09-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Meghan is perfectly entitled to do what she did.  It is her father's funeral.  That said, I'm more in the Bfine camp on this one, it's tacky to take shots at anyone during a funeral.  We're ok with politicizing funerals now too?  Is there any venue left in our society where we can take a break from politics?

It was the funeral of a long time politician.

Were they not supposed to talk about it?  About how he acted and how things changed?

Oh, right...not if it insults your boy.

Carry on.

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Meghan is perfectly entitled to do what she did.  It is her father's funeral.  That said, I'm more in the Bfine camp on this one, it's tacky to take shots at anyone during a funeral.  We're ok with politicizing funerals now too?  Is there any venue left in our society where we can take a break from politics?

Ehh, it's the funeral of a prominent politician who was the recipient of some extreme shade from what may end up being our only celebrity president; this is a veritable perfect storm.  Somehow I doubt funerals as a whole are going to become political gripe-fests any more than Michael Jordan's HOF speech was going to turn every subsequent HOF speech into self-congratulatory "I told you so" tirades.

Remember, almost 20 years ago McCain's adopted daughter from Bangladesh turned into his illegitimate colored child, so the ship on "let's just leave politics out of it all" has long since sailed.  

(09-04-2018, 11:39 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure do and that's one of the reasons I am fully aware to whom she was referring. Fred and Dino apparently think she was speaking in generalities.

Everyone is talking about Trump, always and that is why he is the president.  In this country we have an obsessive love-hate relationship with celebrities that we have, for some odd reason, decided to cram directly into the highest office of our government.  I fully expect this sort of stuff to die down a bit when we go back to electing people who haven't been the subject of grandiose ridicule and anti-hero worship for decades.

Well, maybe.

[*bfine32*]

(09-04-2018, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: A funeral is about the deceased's last wishes.  When you look at the plans McCain himself made it is clear he wanted to make a statement by specifically excluding Trump.

He probably told his daughter "Criticize being an asshole without using any names and see what the Trump lovers say."

I have no doubt that McCain wanted Trump to have no part in his remembrance. Unfortunately, his daughter brought him front and center.

Having issues with when and where Meghan made her comments makes no one a "Trump supporter". Hell she can come on TV day and say those exact words on the view and I would nod my head in agreement. Of course I'd have to be watching the view.

[fredtoast]

(09-04-2018, 11:32 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll put you in the group with Fred that thinks her comments were not directly pointed at Trump.

As to the bolded question I doubt it would have been exactly the same. I doubt she uses Trump's tagline in her speech or talks about the entitled that did nothing while her father sacrificed. But yeah, the "while the entitled did nothing" line would have probably still rubbed me the wrong way. You can praise sacrifice without slurring those that did not.

Everything that was said was probably said at the wish of John McCain.  Look at the plans he himself made.


Y'all just pissed cause John got the last word and your boy can't pitch a little squealy fit at a dead man. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-04-2018, 11:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have no doubt that McCain wanted Trump to have no part in his remembrance. Unfortunately, his daughter brought him front and center.

Having issues with when and where Meghan made her comments makes no one a "Trump supporter". Hell she can come on TV day and say those exact words on the view and I would nod my head in agreement. Of course I'd have to be watching the view.

Ida know...if McCain specifically didn't want Trump at his funeral I'd say it's fair game for his daughter to take some shots at the guy.  But who knows, maybe her ol' man is rolling in his grave because she brought him up and maybe he's doing whatever people say someone dead does when he isn't upset.  Not rolling in his grave?

[*bfine32*]

(09-04-2018, 11:38 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Meghan is perfectly entitled to do what she did.  It is her father's funeral.  That said, I'm more in the Bfine camp on this one, it's tacky to take shots at anyone during a funeral.  We're ok with politicizing funerals now too?  Is there any venue left in our society where we can take a break from politics?

Not surprisingly some folks here are trying to twist your words here instead of focusing on the sentiment. They are/will claim that you are suggesting we shouldn't talk about this political accomplishments and service all the while deep down knowing you were talking about the divisiveness that is saturating this politicizing.

And as I said. Who the hell am I to tell her what to say? I can give my views on what her words caused and this very thread and its turn to Trump illustrates it perfectly.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-04-2018, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: A funeral is about the deceased's last wishes.  When you look at the plans McCain himself made it is clear he wanted to make a statement by specifically excluding Trump.

He probably told his daughter "Criticize being an asshole without using any names and see what the Trump lovers say."

(09-04-2018, 11:43 AM)GMDino Wrote: It was the funeral of a long time politician.

Were they not supposed to talk about it?  About how he acted and how things changed?

Oh, right...not if it insults your boy.

Carry on.

(09-04-2018, 11:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, it's the funeral of a prominent politician who was the recipient of some extreme shade from what may end up being our only celebrity president; this is a veritable perfect storm.  Somehow I doubt funerals as a whole are going to become political gripe-fests any more than Michael Jordan's HOF speech was going to turn every subsequent HOF speech into self-congratulatory "I told you so" tirades.

Remember, almost 20 years ago McCain's adopted daughter from Bangladesh turned into his illegitimate colored child, so the ship on "let's just leave politics out of it all" has long since sailed.  



Everyone is talking about Trump, always and that is why he is the president.  In this country we have an obsessive love-hate relationship with celebrities that we have, for some odd reason, decided to cram directly into the highest office of our government.  I fully expect this sort of stuff to die down a bit when we go back to electing people who haven't been the subject of grandiose ridicule and anti-hero worship for decades.

Well, maybe.

So I guess the answer is yes from you three.  I seriously don't know what's worse, Trump's behavior or the reactions of people perpetually outraged by him.  Rational people literally have no side to pick, depressing is not a strong enough word for it.