He focuses on things conservatives attacked Obama for but support Trump for or in spite of (using a teleprompter, being divisive, being elitist, being thin skinned, etc).
He then calls out people who yell "Blue Lives Matter" and then remain silent or vote against funding for 9/11 first responders.
The best line was when he played a clip of Hannity saying Obama cannot relate to regular people in his million dollar home and one in which he is praising Ivanka Trump's description of her dad as a "blue collar millionaire", a man who sits on a gold chair, at the top of a gold building, with his name on it. "Trump is a man you'd like to sit down and own a fleet of airplanes with".
(07-22-2016, 01:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He focuses on things conservatives attacked Obama for but support Trump for or in spite of (using a teleprompter, being divisive, being elitist, being thin skinned, etc).
True, but isn't this kind of like Stewart holding up a mirror and denying he sees his reflection?
(07-22-2016, 02:12 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: True, but isn't this kind of like Stewart holding up a mirror and denying he sees his reflection?
This is where I am at on this and out forum is a microcosim.
IF conservatives have to embrace things they didn't like about Obama to support Trump, what must Liberals have to do to crtitcize them? Remeber, Obama got elected simply because he was "A change we can believe in". Now Trump will be a change and Hills will be more of the same.
(07-22-2016, 02:12 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: True, but isn't this kind of like Stewart holding up a mirror and denying he sees his reflection?
(07-22-2016, 02:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is where I am at on this and out forum is a microcosim.
IF conservatives have to embrace things they didn't like about Obama to support Trump, what must Liberals have to do to crtitcize them? Remeber, Obama got elected simply because he was "A change we can believe in". Now Trump will be a change and Hills will be more of the same.
I guess if he and many others simply voted for Obama because he was inexperienced... but I think the political positions he aligned himself with got most of his supporter's votes.
(07-22-2016, 02:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I guess if he and many others simply voted for Obama because he was inexperienced... but I think the political positions he aligned himself with got most of his supporter's votes.
....and I think it had quite a bit to do with him being "a change".
(07-22-2016, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ....and I think it had quite a bit to do with him being "a change".
and then Obama became a divisive demagogue....and they denied it and voted for him again, anyway. Trump is just less polished and more dramatic about it.
Jon Stewart is not wrong, just a hypocrite. Although, to be fair I'm not sure if he claimed he wasn't.
(07-22-2016, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ....and I think it had quite a bit to do with him being "a change".
A change from Bush policies, sure. I think all of us as educated adults can assume they would not be supportive of someone who wants to change Obama policies because it is a "change", so there's no conflict in being against Trump.
(07-22-2016, 04:05 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: and then Obama became a divisive demagogue....and they denied it and voted for him again, anyway. Trump is just less polished and more dramatic about it.
Jon Stewart is not wrong, just a hypocrite. Although, to be fair I'm not sure if he claimed he wasn't.
I guess if you honestly believe Obama is then that would make Stewart a hypocrite. While some don't believe me, I'm not a fan of the President. I guess not hating him and constantly attacking him makes me one in the eyes of others, but as someone who never voted for him, I can say with neutrality that he isn't a divisive demagogue.
(07-22-2016, 04:35 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I guess if you honestly believe Obama is then that would make Stewart a hypocrite. .
It seems almost everyone that didn't vote for Obama, and more than a few who did, honestly think that. I didn't hate him in 2008, I didn't believe in many of his policies then but I honestly didn't think he was a divisive demagogue then....no, that's just what I've observed from a POTUS that leads from the bully pulpit.
I find it a bit surprising how anyone, fan or not, would refuse to acknowledge Obama has been a divisive demagogue. Trump is using the same playbook, just much less dignified about it.
It wouldn't be working and there wouldn't even be a great divide to exploit if Obama hadn't done his share to further polarize America.
(07-22-2016, 04:42 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: It seems almost everyone that didn't vote for Obama, and more than a few who did, honestly think that. I didn't hate him in 2008, I didn't believe in many of his policies then but I honestly didn't think he was a divisive demagogue then....no, that's just what I've observed from a POTUS that leads from the bully pulpit.
I find it a bit surprising how anyone, fan or not, would refuse to acknowledge Obama has been a divisive demagogue. Trump is using the same playbook, just much less dignified about it.
It wouldn't be working and there wouldn't even be a great divide to exploit if Obama hadn't done his share to further polarize America.
The problem is "his share" at creating the divide has been him being black and a Democrat. He's not responsible for the anger Trump is tapping into, he has just been the person they have directed it at for the last 8 years. There's a reason why Trump's supporters do not care when he blatantly lies or misleads them. He reassures them that what they believe is reality is reality.
btw, being President IS the bully pulpit. Teddy Roosevelt made that up to describe the office of the President because it is a great (bully) pulpit. It doesn't mean being an authoritarian leader.
(07-22-2016, 04:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The problem is "his share" at creating the divide has been him being black and a Democrat. He's not responsible for the anger Trump is tapping into, he has just been the person they have directed it at for the last 8 years. There's a reason why Trump's supporters do not care when he blatantly lies or misleads them. He reassures them that what they believe is reality is reality.
btw, being President IS the bully pulpit. Teddy Roosevelt made that up to describe the office of the President because it is a great (bully) pulpit. It doesn't mean being an authoritarian leader.
Attributing it solely to his race is one dimensional as shit.
His "if I had a son comment" had no place when he made it.
(07-22-2016, 05:37 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Attributing it solely to his race is one dimensional as shit.
His "if I had a son comment" had no place when he made it.
I also attributed it to his political party.
His comment had a place when he made it. It was relevant when he said it and he was speaking as a father, a leader, and a member of the black community.
(07-22-2016, 06:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I also attributed it to his political party.
His comment had a place when he made it. It was relevant when he said it and he was speaking as a father, a leader, and a member of the black community.
In reality, all it did was fan the flames JustWinBaby is describing.
(07-22-2016, 04:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The problem is "his share" at creating the divide has been him being black and a Democrat.
You went there. Didn't see that coming [sarcasm]. Has nothing to do with him being black for the vast majority of people and everything to do with bushleague crap like "if I had a son...." and "financial terrorists" and "you didn't build that" and on and on....oh, can't forget "clinging to their guns and bibles".
I didn't expect much from Obama, primarily because of economic policies, but I'd say I liked him quite a bit - it's his words and actions (or lack thereof) that have changed my opinion. He's never attempted to be the unifier he promised, never tried to reach across the aisle...instead demagoguing everyone who doesn't bow to his agenda.
You don't see him as divisive because you pretty clearly agree with him on many things, particularly when it comes to race. Exactly the sort of hypocrisy I accused Stewart of.
Democrats moved whole hog into identity politics somewhere between 8 and 16 years ago. Trump's over-the-top dumping on the current administration is not that different from what Obama was doing in 2008, and continued doing for years after getting elected.
(07-22-2016, 06:40 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You went there. Didn't see that coming [sarcasm]. Has nothing to do with him being black for the vast majority of people and everything to do with bushleague crap like "if I had a son...." and "financial terrorists" and "you didn't build that" and on and on....oh, can't forget "clinging to their guns and bibles".
I didn't expect much from Obama, primarily because of economic policies, but I'd say I liked him quite a bit - it's his words and actions (or lack thereof) that have changed my opinion. He's never attempted to be the unifier he promised, never tried to reach across the aisle...instead demagoguing everyone who doesn't bow to his agenda.
There was a whole birther movement... I do not think it is a stretch to suggest some of it is race related.
Quote:You don't see him as divisive because you pretty clearly agree with him on many things, particularly when it comes to race. Exactly the sort of hypocrisy I accused Stewart of.
Probably just as much as I agreed with Romney on things, but I won't stop you from doing what I said people do if you don't irrationally attack Obama: just suggest I am a fan of his...
I have two problems with Trump. The first is him being a demagogue. Obama has been bad and it has been a result of growing tension between him and Congress as they have done nothing but antagonize each other. Trump has not had this going on and he is already coming off like that. If Trump becomes POTUS it will be a joke around the world, much like Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary.
My other issue is the question of his positions. He has made sense on some things, but between his more ridiculous positions and his constant flip-flopping, I just can't trust him on the stuff. I heard a report a while ago talking about Trump supporters tend to dismiss his more wild claims and promises as "he didn't really mean that" type of things. How you can do that, I don't know, but to really support him you'd have to lie to yourself like that.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(07-22-2016, 07:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There was a whole birther movement... I do not think it is a stretch to suggest some of it is race related.
Probably just as much as I agreed with Romney on things, but I won't stop you from doing what I said people do if you don't irrationally attack Obama: just suggest I am a fan of his...
You truly believe the birther movement was racially motivated? I would guess that it was more likely motivated by people that had done some research on the guy, and didn't like what they saw coming for the Nation. Heck, many of the "crazy predictions" by talk radio, have since come to fruition.
Note: please don't ask me to "verify" these claims. As it is all out there for everyone to find.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(07-22-2016, 08:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You truly believe the birther movement was racially motivated? I would guess that it was more likely motivated by people that had done some research on the guy, and didn't like what they saw coming for the Nation. Heck, many of the "crazy predictions" by talk radio, have since come to fruition.
Note: please don't ask me to "verify" these claims. As it is all out there for everyone to find.
You believe the birther movement WASN'T racially motivated. Mind you, I do not believe most of his critics are critics because of his race, but some are, particularly those who believe he isn't American.
(07-22-2016, 08:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You truly believe the birther movement was racially motivated? I would guess that it was more likely motivated by people that had done some research on the guy, and didn't like what they saw coming for the Nation. Heck, many of the "crazy predictions" by talk radio, have since come to fruition.
Note: please don't ask me to "verify" these claims. As it is all out there for everyone to find.
Wasn't going to because you can't.
Although I suppose if people just keep throwing out every possible bad scenario eventually one or two will be "true". Kinda how preachers scare their flock into the end of the world stuff.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(07-22-2016, 09:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You believe the birther movement WASN'T racially motivated. Mind you, I do not believe most of his critics are critics because of his race, but some are, particularly those who believe he isn't American.
First off, I get kind of perplexed talking race with you, because it's a moving target. Secondly, I think the birther movement was a whole lot more motivated by name than by race.
(07-22-2016, 10:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: First off, I get kind of perplexed talking race with you, because it's a moving target. Secondly, I think the birther movement was a whole lot more motivated by name than by race.
it's because when I say "race is a social construct" you probably read it as me saying "race doesn't exist". Race is an idea that we created as a society, not one that is based on our genetics, and we have thrown people into groups and called them "races". We can still discuss how it impacts society because people still emphasis someone's race, despite science tells us that these differences aren't genetically significant. Discussing the fact that people treat Obama differently because he is black is far different than saying that Asian people are born smarter.
As for the name thing, that certainly played a role. Whether or not it played a bigger role than his skin color is of course further speculation on my own speculation. I wonder how he would have been treated if his name was Barry O'Donnell.
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