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Jonah Williams Will Upgrade LT
#21
I'm still not against getting him some help though. Whether that's signing or trading for someone like Jason Peters or Trent Williams (Possibly allowing him to start at RT while he gets playing experience). Or possibly Joe Thuney if there's any kind of Dalton/Pats trade options (to give him help on the left side).
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#22
(03-26-2020, 09:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: At least most of us hope so.  For those that worry about Jonah Williams at LT, take a look of some favorable highlights.  Highlights are design to make you look good, but ask yourself this, how many highlights has Hart, Ced, or whoever the hell played OT for the Bengals the last few years?  

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/6/18247397/nfl-draft-2019-jonah-williams-cincinnati-bengals-scouting-report-alabama-left-tackle-arms

Highlights are as you say designed to make you look good but in any I'd suggest case O-line is a weak link position where you're as good as your worst reps not your best ones and that consistency is more important than the highlight reel plays. Discuss....
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#23
(03-26-2020, 09:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: At least most of us hope so.  For those that worry about Jonah Williams at LT, take a look of some favorable highlights.  Highlights are design to make you look good, but ask yourself this, how many highlights has Hart, Ced, or whoever the hell played OT for the Bengals the last few years?  

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/6/18247397/nfl-draft-2019-jonah-williams-cincinnati-bengals-scouting-report-alabama-left-tackle-arms

Good time for a post like this, Doc.  Williams is like Burrow at LT.  He is the king of film study and preparation.  Burrow has said that is where his confidence comes from.  Williams will be a mammoth upgrade over John Jerry and Andre Smith, neither one of which had any business starting at LT last year.  An offensive line is only as strong as its weakest link and Dalton still had over 400 yards passing (largely because they couldn't run the ball at all last year in week 1).

By the end of the year, the offensive line had settled and Mixon took off.  Sure, some of that was they weren't facing the toughest of defenses, but I see Williams and XSF as huge additions to the line this year.  Hopkins coming off his first full season at Center, and Hart continuing to improve...Hart will also have to watch for Fred Johnson, who held up VERY well in his only start at LT last season.  

XSF has been panned as somewhat of a "trading paint" player compared to Miller.  I disagree.  Miller had his strengths, but one of them was not as a pulling guard, which is XSF's biggest strength.  I can't help but wonder if he won't be the LG and Jordan will move to RG, where it is a bit more fitting to his strengths as well.  Should be interesting, but my point is just like your assessment of Williams, I see a G that is great striking on the move playing LG, and a big, strong guy like Jordan in year 2 possibly switching to RG.  I think Hart will keep the RT job, but if he falls back at all and hasn't improved his strength and practices like his hair is on fire, Johnson might be a better option.
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#24
Jonah was the only LT in college that could handle Mile Garrett one on one. He IS a highlight reel. Some may say XSF is "trading paint", but ask a Cowboy fan, and they will tell you their line was better when XFS was starting.
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#25
(03-27-2020, 12:38 AM)Mobster Wrote: What qualities does Price have that made you think he'd be a good G? He doesn't have any special physical tools- not great athleticism, not great size, definitely not a dominant mauler type. Guards who are  drafted in round 1 have special, dominant tools.

The only thing Price had going for him was maybe teams thought he had the intangibles, smarts, and leadership qualities that you look for in a starting center- as sort of the captain of the O-Line. And perhaps teams thought having those qualities in a starting center was worth a first round pick, even if he is lacking in physical ability. But, if he's not playing center, those intangibles become a moot point.

Maybe he'll show enough to prove he can stick around as sort of a backup swing C/G, but I never thought be was worth more than a mid round pick. Just sucks we reached for a center because there were some really good Guards on the board when we picked Price. And we'd have one less hole now. Always draft for talent and accumulate the best players you can instead of reaching to fill a need. If you reach, you're still going to be trying to fill the same hole next year, and you just cost yourself the chance to add some serious talent at another spot.
He played some guard at OSU. His draft report had him listed as C/G with his strength and ability to pull as a plus. I think everyone has a different opinion now on Price then when we took him, everyone was high on him.
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#26
(03-26-2020, 10:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hart, Ogbuehi, etc, all had great highlight reels in college too, I am sure.

There's nobody who gets drafted that doesn't have a highlight reel in college. If they didn't, they'd be insurance salesmen.

Of all draft eligible Div 1 NCAA football players, only 3.9% get drafted (and that doesn't even mean you'll ever make a 53 man roster.)

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So trying to compare a college highlight reel against a lacking pro highlight reel is a bad endeavor at best.

uh no those guys were never on the same level as Williams.  Your talking about a guy who entirely shut down Myles Garrett who was a monster on the college level.  So while everyone may put up good college tape it's not every day you find a guy who can shut down an all-pro DE 1 on 1.
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#27
Jonah is a smart lineman. He knows which guys to pick up


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#28
(03-27-2020, 12:01 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: He played some guard at OSU. His draft report had him listed as C/G with his strength and ability to pull as a plus. I think everyone has a different opinion now on Price then when we took him, everyone was high on him.

Depends what you mean by high.

Many had him pegged as a day 2 prospect (e.g. this mock http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927630/article/chad-reuter-2018-sevenround-nfl-mock-draft-round-2 right before the draft had him going 62nd - after 3 Bengals picks from that draft, Bates (28th), fellow bust (Malik Jefferson (33rd), Hubbard (57th)). There were more than a few suggestions at the time that he was picked as he was from an Ohio university and that would help sell tickets, something exacerbated when Hubbard was taken in the third too. So plenty thought he was a reach but on the other hand nobody expected him to be quite as bad as he's been - whilst his ceiling was limited he was supposed to have a high floor. He's certainly been worse than even his detractors expected.
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#29
I've got high hopes for him, we'll see
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#30
(03-27-2020, 12:58 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote:  So plenty thought he was a reach but on the other hand nobody expected him to be quite as bad as he's been - whilst his ceiling was limited he was supposed to have a high floor. He's certainly been worse than even his detractors expected.


  
This.

Of all the disappointments from the 2019 Bengals Price was the worst for me.  I really thought his rookie struggles were do to recovering from an injury and not being able to lift in the offseason.  I was not even expecting a big Pro Bowl season, but I was expecting him to play a huge roll in improving our offensive line.  But he just stunk it up.

We got basically nothing from 4 of our last 5 first round draft picks (Williams, Price, Ross, Ogbuehi).  That kills a team like the Bengals who live by the draft.


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#31
(03-27-2020, 01:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've got high hopes for him, we'll see

Agreed, I don't think we need to lament that he's a bust (as some have implied in this thread) until we see him on the field.  He was hurt last year and that reeked of same 'ole Bengals, but the dude can recover.  Maybe we'll remember him and Burrow together as kick ass rookies years from now.
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#32
(03-27-2020, 12:58 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Depends what you mean by high.

Many had him pegged as a day 2 prospect (e.g. this mock http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927630/article/chad-reuter-2018-sevenround-nfl-mock-draft-round-2 right before the draft had him going 62nd - after 3 Bengals picks from that draft, Bates (28th), fellow bust (Malik Jefferson (33rd), Hubbard (57th)). There were more than a few suggestions at the time that he was picked as he was from an Ohio university and that would help sell tickets, something exacerbated when Hubbard was taken in the third too. So plenty thought he was a reach but on the other hand nobody expected him to be quite as bad as he's been - whilst his ceiling was limited he was supposed to have a high floor. He's certainly been worse than even his detractors expected.

Mocks mean nothing though; people still forget that Tyson Alualu was graded as a 2nd rounder/late 1st. He went in the top 10.

Travis Frederick was mocked to be a *3rd* rounder, on all the big outlets (and many were mocking here in the 4th); he goes in the first.

If Price was fully healthy from day 1, I think he'd've been our C right now and playing well.

He got off on the wrong foot (no pun intended) and he's struggled ever since, be it injury, attitude (so we hear) or scheme.
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#33
(03-26-2020, 11:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The free agency wasn't bad, but it didn't fix either of the two main needs. (OL and LB) Or even their secondary needs. (WR and TE)

Got better in the secondary and got better on the DL, but when push comes to shove, the Bengals need to beat the Ravens in order to win the division. The Ravens are going to have a lot of passes to TEs and a lot of QB runs. If you lack the LBs to stop that, you can't beat them. I guess we will see what happens with the draft.  I just don't feel they put Burrow in the best position to succeed with the suspect OL, TE, and WR groups outside of Boyd (who is a great #2, but can't fill the #1 shoes) and it seems absurd to pick a QB 1st overall and not give him everything he needs to give the best odds for him to succeed and deliver on the promise of his immense talent.

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Jonah Pros: Nothing so far, he hasn't played in the NFL yet.
Jonah Cons: He hasn't played in the NFL yet, was selected by the same people obsessed with Bobby Hart and Alex Redmond.

...we don't KNOW anything else about him yet. If college success created pro success, Tim Tebow would be facing AJ McCarron every year in the SB. Despite his malingering, Glenn (when on the field) was a solid LT. It just seems a leap to automatically assume 

I think XSF and Bynes are upgrades over Jordan and Vigil and PFF confirms this. Also the Draft should fix those two main needs
more-so. Jonah didn't give up a sack in his last year at Alabama in the SEC and was the best O-lineman in that Draft. If you think
he is a bad pick you are crazy, too bad he got injured in his first year but that isn't the coaches fault.
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#34
(03-27-2020, 12:58 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Depends what you mean by high.

Many had him pegged as a day 2 prospect (e.g. this mock http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000927630/article/chad-reuter-2018-sevenround-nfl-mock-draft-round-2 right before the draft had him going 62nd - after 3 Bengals picks from that draft, Bates (28th), fellow bust (Malik Jefferson (33rd), Hubbard (57th)). There were more than a few suggestions at the time that he was picked as he was from an Ohio university and that would help sell tickets, something exacerbated when Hubbard was taken in the third too. So plenty thought he was a reach but on the other hand nobody expected him to be quite as bad as he's been - whilst his ceiling was limited he was supposed to have a high floor. He's certainly been worse than even his detractors expected.

Even if he was picked at 62, that’s still one of the top C/G picks. That high floor should have made him at the very least, a serviceable rotation guy. He’s been really bad. I really think that his spot on the team is gone if he doesn’t show huge improvement.
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#35
(03-26-2020, 09:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: At least most of us hope so.  For those that worry about Jonah Williams at LT, take a look of some favorable highlights.  Highlights are design to make you look good, but ask yourself this, how many highlights has Hart, Ced, or whoever the hell played OT for the Bengals the last few years?  

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/6/18247397/nfl-draft-2019-jonah-williams-cincinnati-bengals-scouting-report-alabama-left-tackle-arms

I believe we all hope Jonah turns out to be that rock solid LT the team has been missing since Whit left. But it's not a good sign when he yet another Bengals 1st round pick who's "still a rookie" in his second year. The Bengals' 2019 draft class certainly needs a boost and I think we are all hoping Williams can be that guy.

(03-27-2020, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote:   
This.

Of all the disappointments from the 2019 Bengals Price was the worst for me.  I really thought his rookie struggles were do to recovering from an injury and not being able to lift in the offseason.  I was not even expecting a big Pro Bowl season, but I was expecting him to play a huge roll in improving our offensive line.  But he just stunk it up.

We got basically nothing from 4 of our last 5 first round draft picks (Williams, Price, Ross, Ogbuehi).  That kills a team like the Bengals who live by the draft.

Yep. Whiffing in the 1st round like that just hurts the team in so many ways.
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#36
I can't imagine what the down side would be if an experienced LT was brought in and Jonah was used to upgrade the RT position. Plenty of people before last year's draft thought Jonah was more suited to RT.
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#37
(03-28-2020, 02:22 PM)McC Wrote: I can't imagine what the down side would be if an experienced LT was brought in and Jonah was used to upgrade the RT position. Plenty of people before last year's draft thought Jonah was more suited to RT.

My memory isn’t what it once was, but didn’t Whit play another spot before moving to LT?
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#38
(03-28-2020, 03:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: My memory isn’t what it once was, but didn’t Whit play another spot before moving to LT?

I hear ya on the memory part.  I walk into the kitchen and turn on the light and stand there a minute trying to remember what I went in there for.

And yes, Whit played LG.
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#39
(03-28-2020, 02:19 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I believe we all hope Jonah turns out to be that rock solid LT the team has been missing since Whit left. But it's not a good sign when he yet another Bengals 1st round pick who's "still a rookie" in his second year. The Bengals' 2019 draft class certainly needs a boost and I think we are all hoping Williams can be that guy.


Yep. Whiffing in the 1st round like that just hurts the team in so many ways.

Not to mention Uzomah is the ONLY guy left from the 2015 draft. A rotational TE is all we have to show for an entire draft class.
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#40
I’m excited to see how this O line pans out.I like what I’m seeing so far.I think Williams will fit just fine at LT.Definitely believe our O line will be much better.
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