Jonathan Allen DE?DT

[Derrick]

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/4/9/15227950/nfl-mock-draft-2017-will-jonathan-allen-make-it-to-bengals

[*Go Cards*]

Would love to have this caliber of player drafted by Bengals.

But those shoulder problems are a real concern.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-09-2017, 09:26 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Would love to have this caliber of player drafted by Bengals.

But those shoulder problems are a real concern.

Want this guy more than anyone, he won't have problems with those shoulders unless a freak injury occurs from
what i have been reading. Mild arthritis that shouldn't give him any probs for 10-15 years...

Allen would fill two positions at once, 3 tech DT and RDE. Dude is good to great at everything...

[Murdock2420]

(04-09-2017, 11:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Want this guy more than anyone, he won't have problems with those shoulders unless a freak injury occurs from
what i have been reading. Mild arthritis that shouldn't give him any probs for 10-15 years...

Allen would fill two positions at once, 3 tech DT and RDE. Dude is good to great at everything...

Agree 100%. This is the type of guy I want to see at the 9th pick. Draft him, and stick his ass on the field and just let him play. No project here, just a guy that comes in and gets after the other teams QB.

[phil413]

I don't think we have the info to discuss him properly, let's hope the team does. I respect anyone with a medical background but it's the kid's personal health so we may not have the proper info even if you knew how to interpret it.

Talent wise if he "checks out" he's easily BPA if he slides to 9. That makes you wonder that if he checks out for Cincy, why didn't he for the others? Let's hope this somehow clears up even more with more data instead of even Allen saying what his drs think.

[jj22]

Bama guys tend to always come in hurt. The shoulder injuries will have him fall out of the top 10.

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 10:55 AM)jj22 Wrote: Bama guys tend to always come in hurt. The shoulder injuries will have him fall out of the top 10.

He isn't falling out of the top 10. Just this weekend reports started coming out that the previous reports of his shoulder issues are being over hyped and probably being circulated by teams trying to get him to fall. I believe it was on PFT, but one GM was quoted as saying it was all crap and he'd still take him in the top 5 if his team had a pick there.

[BenZoo2]

(04-10-2017, 12:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: He isn't falling out of the top 10. Just this weekend reports started coming out that the previous reports of his shoulder issues are being over hyped and probably being circulated by teams trying to get him to fall. I believe it was on PFT, but one GM was quoted as saying it was all crap and he'd still take him in the top 5 if his team had a pick there.

Still hope for enough doubt for him to slide to 9


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 12:16 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Still hope for enough doubt for him to slide to 9


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can see teams trading into the top 10 in front of us to get him if he starts sliding, possibly the Saints.

[*Go Cards*]

If his shoulders are good to go he will not be there at #9.

Would probably have to trade up to get him if he is 100% healthy per team Drs.

He is very talented.

[PikesPeakUC]

Yep. I would love to have him at nine. If it happened he would immediately upgrade that defensive front. I still don't believe it will happen, but if he does fall, then maybe teams have a better understanding of the medicals, for example a guy like Myles Jack.

[Hammerstripes]

I can't remember the last time a prospect or a player had to retire in his mid-20s due to arthritis.

I was reading a quote from Allen on this after he spoke with his doctors. He said that he will have some issues with his shoulders long after he is done playing, but it shouldn't be an issue until then.

Everyone has varying degrees of arthritis - it's just normal joint wear, but I have never met anyone that has had issues bad enough where it affected their life until they were in their mid to late 30s.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-10-2017, 12:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: He isn't falling out of the top 10. Just this weekend reports started coming out that the previous reports of his shoulder issues are being over hyped and probably being circulated by teams trying to get him to fall. I believe it was on PFT, but one GM was quoted as saying it was all crap and he'd still take him in the top 5 if his team had a pick there.

I could not find any articles that cleared the shoulder concern totally but with that said.. a team will have a player checked out and keep it private most of the time.. so if he does slide.. it will be because of his shoulder not his talent.. i predict he is gone though by 9 but i would not trade up for him. 

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 03:03 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I could not find any articles that cleared the shoulder concern totally but with that said.. a team will have a player checked out and keep it private most of the time.. so if he does slide.. it will be because of his shoulder not his talent.. i predict he is gone though by 9 but i would not trade up for him. 

He has mild arthritis, most lineman on both sides of the ball get it during their careers but it very rarely ends their careers. Will he only play 8-9 years? maybe. As far as getting positive production early there really shouldn't be a doubt.

[Hammerstripes]

I love Allen, but does he really fix any problems with the defense? I don't see him as a true edge rusher. I don't think he's a replacement for a nose tackle and I don't think he's better than Atkins.

To me, he's a better version of MJ, but I don't view him as a true outside pass rusher.

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 04:32 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I love Allen, but does he really fix any problems with the defense?  I don't see him as a true edge rusher.  I don't think he's a replacement for a nose tackle and I don't think he's better than Atkins.

To me, he's a better version of MJ, but I don't view him as a true outside pass rusher.

He had a lot of production against really good teams in big moments. I wouldn't compare him to MJ at all. He has shown he can rush from inside or out, I'd say the value is in the versatility. He doesn't have to play any one position he can play outside and inside much like the Seahawks use Michael Bennett.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-10-2017, 04:36 PM)Au165 Wrote: He had a lot of production against really good teams in big moments. I wouldn't compare him to MJ at all. He has shown he can rush from inside or out, I'd say the value is in the versatility. He doesn't have to play any one position he can play outside and inside much like the Seahawks use Michael Bennett.

MJ plays a lot on the outside and then moved inside on passing downs - hence the comp.

I think Allen would be a guy that would eat up snaps much like Dunlap, but I don't that drafting him solves the pass rush problem.  Don't kid yourself, he'd be great as a base end, but I think a majority of his sacks would come on the inside on passing downs next to Geno.

However, I would be pretty excited if they picked him at #9 and then managed to add a true edge rusher in round 2.

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 04:38 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: MJ plays a lot on the outside and then moved inside on passing downs - hence the comp.

I think Allen would be a guy that would eat up snaps much like Dunlap, but I don't that drafting him solves the pass rush problem.  Don't kid yourself, he'd be great as a base end, but I think a majority of his sacks would come on the inside on passing downs next to Geno.

However, I would be pretty excited if they picked him at #9 and then managed to add a true edge rusher in round 2.

MJ doesn't move inside, Gilberry does, but MJ doesn't. He will be fine on the outside, he is basically a combine clone to Bennett but with better college production, he will be fine as an end.

[Hammerstripes]

(04-10-2017, 04:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: MJ doesn't move inside, Gilberry does, but MJ doesn't. He will be fine on the outside, he is basically a combine clone to Bennett but with better college production, he will be fine as an end.

MJ used to quite a bit - he'd also drop into coverage.  Gilberry showing up took him out of some of those duties.

My point being, he does offer quite a bit of versatility on all 3 downs.  However, I don't think he has the true makings of an outside pass rusher.

[Au165]

(04-10-2017, 04:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: MJ used to quite a bit - he'd also drop into coverage.  Gilberry showing up took him out of some of those duties.

My point being, he does offer quite a bit of versatility on all 3 downs.  However, I don't think he has the true makings of an outside pass rusher.

No MJ really didn't. He did drop into coverage occasionaly, but we have never lined him up inside (with regularity like the others maybe once in a blue moon). We did use to move Rucker and Fanene inside, but not MJ he has always been our outside presence minus when he left for a season. He played LB for a while too, but not DT.

Yea we will have to agree to disagree, the guy has played every position at Alabama I think he can be successful on the outside.