Judge pressing jurors to see if they are impartial

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-16-2024, 07:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: None of those kids are at their dear father's completely unfair criminal witch-hunt trial, though. If he went to their graduations they're doing him dirty in his hour of need. 

What? Sometimes dude, no idea where you are coming from.

His kids were in the NY trial, they also are keeping their heads down and taking care of business while daddy's at trial(s). Looks like they at least know when to be quiet and let daddy take all of the heat. Other than Eric or Jr?  posting a couple times defending his dad, they've been very quiet. Not doing/saying anything to cause unnecessary trouble.  Trump does enough of that on his own. 


Other than that, I think we have 12 jurors now. Working on subs now.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-manhattan-stormy-daniels-michael-cohen-b514cb52bb31a82579cb827c40166173

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-17-2024, 07:19 PM)Dill Wrote: It's not the hush money that is illegal; it is the election fraud.

I think back in 2016, Trump's power simply wasn't consolidated to the degree it is now.
Many GOP politicians would have openly criticized him and withdrawn support.
Hard to believe in 2024, with his party in lock step behind him. No more "mavericks."

He'd have lost SOME voters back then, if he'd shot someone on 5th Avenue.  
So paying the hush money made sense, and probably worked.
Also, he still had to go home to Melania, who's likely not happy to
be so publicly shamed.

A few months into his win though, all such danger was past. He was able to stop investigation
into the hush money and undo convictions of cronies like Flynn. Four years later he was
able convince millions the election had been stolen and attempt a coup
--the attempt to circumvent democracy increasing his popularity.

Now, out of office, his party control makes him the most powerful player in the House.
Despite his very open and brazen use of the DOJ to punish enemies and quash investigations,
--before even the attempted coup--all the Buzz now is how Biden weaponized the DOJ.
And we'll have the proof soon. Very soon.

I'm just curious about something.

You keep standing on principles, but I think Obama should have been tried for war crimes. He did something that was very disturbing to me. 
I'm curious if you even know what I'm talking about. If you do, then your opinion on it.

[*Nately120*]

(04-18-2024, 06:42 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What? Sometimes dude, no idea where you are coming from.

Well, I mean it was noted that Melania wasn't there (yet?) so I guess I just assumed his kids weren't, either.  It's possible my lack of tracking on this one shows I'm not as infected with Trump derangement syndrome as before.

(04-18-2024, 06:46 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm just curious about something.

You keep standing on principles, but I think Obama should have been tried for war crimes. He did something that was very disturbing to me. 
I'm curious if you even know what I'm talking about. If you do, then your opinion on it.

That's easy.  Democrats wanted to cheer Obama's Nobel Peace Prize while republicans were too deep on painting him as a wimpy peacenik to admit that he was bombing the shit out of people.  It just wasn't good marketing for either side to look at his actual actions.

[Dill]

(04-18-2024, 06:46 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm just curious about something.

You keep standing on principles, but I think Obama should have been tried for war crimes. He did something that was very disturbing to me. 
I'm curious if you even know what I'm talking about. If you do, then your opinion on it.

Killing Osama bin Laden in Pakistan? Leading the Libyan intervention from behind? Assassination of a US citizen in Yemen?  Double tap drone strikes? 

The latter two are definitely war crime territory. 

[Dill]

(04-18-2024, 05:38 PM)pally Wrote: They have selected a jury barring any overnight surprises.  Tomorrow they start working on the 6 alternates.  Opening statements can happen as soon as Monday

One of the most disturbing things about this trial is that surprises are likely.

The former president and GOP PRESUMED NOMINEE is constantly violating gag orders in ways that intimidate jurors, working 
with his news service.  Think of the nurse who said "no one should be above the law." Clearly someone the GOP does not want
sitting in judgment of their Leader. Every day we get a clear statement of what the Trump GOP stands for. 

Trump juror quits over fear of being outed after Fox News host says she should scare Trump
https://www.salon.com/2024/04/18/juror-quits-over-fear-of-being-outed-after-fox-news-host-singled-her-out/

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-18-2024, 09:23 PM)Dill Wrote: Killing Osama bin Laden in Pakistan? Leading the Libyan intervention from behind? Assassination of a US citizen in Yemen?  Double tap drone strikes? 

The latter two are definitely war crime territory. 

That one is the big one to me. 
Very surprised the ACLU didn't take that up for not giving a USC his due process. 

[*pally*]

a man set himself on fire outside the courthouse

Hearings are underway to determine a potential change of venue (unrelated to the man) and the potential admission of Trump's legal issues

edit: The change of venue request was denied

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-19-2024, 05:33 PM)pally Wrote: a man set himself on fire outside the courthouse

Hearings are  underway to determine a potential change of venue (unrelated to the man) and the potential admission of Trump's legal issues

edit: The change of venue request was denied

And he won't let me buy a dog!

[HarleyDog]

(04-18-2024, 09:35 PM)Dill Wrote: One of the most disturbing things about this trial is that surprises are likely.

The former president and GOP PRESUMED NOMINEE is constantly violating gag orders in ways that intimidate jurors, working 
with his news service.  Think of the nurse who said "no one should be above the law." Clearly someone the GOP does not want
sitting in judgment of their Leader. Every day we get a clear statement of what the Trump GOP stands for. 

Trump juror quits over fear of being outed after Fox News host says she should scare Trump
https://www.salon.com/2024/04/18/juror-quits-over-fear-of-being-outed-after-fox-news-host-singled-her-out/

Other outlets including NBC News, CNN, CBS News, and ABC News also publicized details about the juror, including additional identifying information.


Also, Gets her news from the NYT and CNN. I think it was pretty smart to fear her. Not really a disturbing surprise. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-19-2024, 08:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Other outlets including NBC News, CNN, CBS News, and ABC News also publicized details about the juror, including additional identifying information.

I gotta say, when I heard some of the reporting about the potential jurors I was like "really? Y'all don't have more sense than that?"

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2024, 09:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I gotta say, when I heard some of the reporting about the potential jurors I was like "really? Y'all don't have more sense than that?"

You know that in NYC it's going to be a free for all. Why would it not be?

[HarleyDog]

(04-19-2024, 09:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I gotta say, when I heard some of the reporting about the potential jurors I was like "really? Y'all don't have more sense than that?"

Pretty much. Remember the OJ case? The media is going to make this bigger. This is an apex moment for the press. A click magnet and opinion overload to stir the hate within our country. Sometimes I wonder if we'll ever come back to decorum. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-19-2024, 09:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You know that in NYC it's going to be a free for all. Why would it not be?

I mean, this is less about the venue and more about the way the media is reporting all of this. It is well known that these people are at risk for being a part of the process so you would think that they would have more sense than to give out anything that could be used to identify them. But no.

[HarleyDog]

(04-19-2024, 09:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, this is less about the venue and more about the way the media is reporting all of this. It is well known that these people are at risk for being a part of the process so you would think that they would have more sense than to give out anything that could be used to identify them. But no.

The press is ruthless. I believe in freedom of the press, but this is over the line. Why would that information be made available? 

[Belsnickel]

(04-19-2024, 09:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The press is ruthless. I believe in freedom of the press, but this is over the line. Why would that information be made available? 

It's the normal part of the process. The press have the ability to be in the room and those jurors are answering questions that could be used to identify them. The press have to be allowed in there, but one would hope they would use some common sense in their reporting of the events.

[HarleyDog]

(04-19-2024, 09:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's the normal part of the process. The press have the ability to be in the room and those jurors are answering questions that could be used to identify them. The press have to be allowed in there, but one would hope they would use some common sense in their reporting of the events.

Agreed. yet it seems since social media and click rates have become a thing, the greatest thing that has happened to mankind in a while has been our downfall in the arena of decency. The media has changed. Its focus is on clicks and they will destroy lives to get those clicks. I know they have always been invasive, but it's a new low today.

[Belsnickel]

(04-19-2024, 09:47 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Agreed. yet it seems since social media and click rates have become a thing, the greatest thing that has happened to mankind in a while has been our downfall in the arena of decency. The media has changed. Its focus is on clicks and they will destroy lives to get those clicks. I know they have always been invasive, but it's a new low today.

They have to make their money somehow, and the attention span of the average media consumer is not what it once was. They need those clicks to draw in the eyeballs.

[*pally*]

(04-19-2024, 08:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Other outlets including NBC News, CNN, CBS News, and ABC News also publicized details about the juror, including additional identifying information.


Also, Gets her news from the NYT and CNN. I think it was pretty smart to fear her. Not really a disturbing surprise. 

Every outlet, including NBC, kept to that level of information. Fox went further by naming the juror’s age, the name of her employer and specific information about her partner.

[Dill]

(04-19-2024, 08:55 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Other outlets including NBC News, CNN, CBS News, and ABC News also publicized details about the juror, including additional identifying information.
Also, Gets her news from the NYT and CNN. I think it was pretty smart to fear her. Not really a disturbing surprise. 

"Smart to fear her" because she gets news for the US' flagship newspaper and believes "No one is above the law"?

And anyway, "both sides do it"?     I don't think so. 

(04-19-2024, 09:24 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The press is ruthless. I believe in freedom of the press, but this is over the line. Why would that information be made available? 

...yet it seems since social media and click rates have become a thing, the greatest thing that has happened to mankind in a while has been our downfall in the arena of decency. The media has changed. Its focus is on clicks and they will destroy lives to get those clicks. I know they have always been invasive, but it's a new low today.

?? The press is ruthless"??  A different starting point might give us a different picture.

E.g., in this case, the DEFENDANT has a history of targeting innocent people for vicious attacks by his fanatical followers,
whom he frequently calls to intervene in the justice system.

Georgia poll workers targeted by Trump are cleared of false election fraud claims
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/georgia-poll-workers-targeted-trump-cleared-false-election-fraud-claim-rcna90350
Judges in Trump-related cases face unprecedented wave of threats
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-judges-threats/

He has carried the same tactics into this New York trial intentionally, to damage the integrity of the legal process.

Donald Trump attacks NY judge's daughter, Manhattan DA Bragg requests court intervene
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/01/trump-gag-order-new-york-hush-money/73167688007/
Trump targets two likely witnesses ahead of his criminal trial, despite gag order
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/13/trump-targets-two-likely-witnesses-ahead-of-his-criminal-trial-despite-gag-order.html
Trump Violated Gag Order Seven More Times, Prosecutors Say
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/18/nyregion/gag-order-trump-prosecution.html

We already have a two-tiered justice system in this country, in which the filthy rich can jam the justice system by
throwing money at lawyers.

Now we have a case in which a wealthy defendant also has a regime party and its news organ in his corner, helping
him to spread disinformation, like “They are catching undercover Liberal Activists lying to the Judge in order to get on the Trump Jury.”
NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN are not publicizing THAT "detail."

So yes, there is indeed a "decency" issue here, but I don't think it is especially accurate to finger the media as the primary agent
willing to "destroy lives," along with our legal process. Making this a "media-has-changed" issue just spreads fog over the real problem.

[GMDino]