KY Bill allowing Bible literacy classes in public schools

[GMDino]

http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/education/article65408727.html

Quote:Bible literacy classes could be taught in Kentucky public schools as a social studies elective under legislation approved by a state Senate committee.

Senate Bill 278, sponsored by State Sen. Robin Webb, D-Grayson, was unanimously approved Thursday by the Senate Education Committee.

The legislation might raise questions about the separation of church and state. Webb said the bill “passes constitutional muster.” She said she practiced constitutional law for 30 years.

“This bill would not have a religious connotation as much as a historical connotation,” she said.

She said she had taken a “Bible as literature” course when she attended East Carter High School.

According to the bill, students would learn biblical content, characters, poetry, and narratives “that are prerequisites to understanding contemporary society and culture, including literature, art, music, mores, oratory and public policy.”

The course would have to follow federal and state guidelines in maintaining religious neutrality and accommodating the diverse religious views of students in the school, according to the legislation. Regulations for the course developed by the Kentucky Board of Education could not violate any provision of the federal or state constitution or laws.

School-based decision-making councils would decide whether to offer such courses if the bill is approved.

Former state Sen. Jack Westwood, now a policy analyst for the Family Foundation of Kentucky, testified on behalf of the bill.

Senate Bill 278 would not result in instructors teaching the Bible, Westwood said.

A former English teacher, Westwood said students needed to know how the Bible influences culture. Webb said the Bible is the cornerstone of literature.

Democrats and Republicans on the committee praised the bill Thursday, including chairman Mike Wilson, R-Bowling Green, and Sen. Reggie Thomas, D-Lexington.

However, the Kentucky ACLU advised caution Friday.

William E. Sharp, ACLU of Kentucky Legal Director, said in a statement Friday that the organization urges legislators to consider how such courses are likely to be implemented throughout the commonwealth.

“Although there certainly are acceptable ways to teach about the Bible to public school students — such as teaching comparative religion classes or about the Bible’s relationship to literature, art or music — the fact remains that it is difficult, in practice, to do so in a constitutionally permissible manner,” Sharp said. “Moreover, the ACLU of Kentucky maintains that parents and religious leaders, not government employees, should teach religious beliefs to children.”

Another story on this said:

Quote:"This would not be a world religions course, and would only focus on the bible as a historical text."

Not sure this will be what it claims to be vs being an indoctrination of the bible.  At least it is an elective and not required.

[Aquapod770]

I don't see a problem. It's an elective class, and it's not pushing religious themes. Merely studying it in historical context. Classes like these are offered in colleges all over the place for a wide variety of religions.

[Belsnickel]

(03-14-2016, 05:34 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I don't see a problem. It's an elective class, and it's not pushing religious themes. Merely studying it in historical context. Classes like these are offered in colleges all over the place for a wide variety of religions.

It will become a problem when someone requests a similar class discussing the Qur'an, Vedas, or what have you. The second that happens and is tossed aside there will be a lawsuit waiting on the other end.

I'm fine with classes like these, as long as we take an all or none approach.

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 05:34 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I don't see a problem. It's an elective class, and it's not pushing religious themes. Merely studying it in historical context. Classes like these are offered in colleges all over the place for a wide variety of religions.

Same here. 

[*bfine32*]

2 things:

Folks do realize that Seperation of Church and State are not in the Constitution don't they?

I think it should be a religions of America Class and the amount of instruction on each Major Religion should be corelary to the percentage of the population that is a particular religion. For instance Muslims make up about 0.9% of the population. So if the course were 100 days you'd spend a little less than a day discussing that faith....

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 05:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2 things:

Folks do realize that Seperation of Church and State are not in the Constitution don't they?

I think it should be a religions of America Class and the amount of instruction on each Major Religion should be corelary to the percentage of the population that is a particular religion. For instance Muslims make up about 0.9% of the population. So if the course were 100 days you'd spend a little less than a day discussing that faith....

Which works out great to get an in-depth look at whatt the majority of them are already exposed to. But education is at least partly to prepare kids for what comes next. If you're going to discuss religions and spend 1% of the time talking about a religion 22% of the world practices, you aren't preparing them for much outside their own box.

[*bfine32*]

(03-14-2016, 06:08 PM)Benton Wrote: Which works out great to get an in-depth look at whatt the majority of them are already exposed to. But education is at least partly to prepare kids for what comes next. If you're going to discuss religions and spend 1% of the time talking about a religion 22% of the world practices, you aren't preparing them for much outside their own box.

Should we spend more time on teaching them to speak Chineese than English?

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 06:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Should we spend more time on teaching them to speak Chineese than English?

Depends. Are we talking about a languages class?

I think most people are open to the idea of having a world religions class in public schools. Or even districts having classes looking at religion from a historical perspective. I wouldn't be in favor of kids thinking other religions are so insignificant that they're that unlikely to be affected by them.

I mean, use this board as a measuring stick. If we're going by thread topics, 3/4 of all problems in Europe are caused by Muslims.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I'm an all or none guy and I see nothing but problems on the horizon with this thing.

There's going to be big problems by the different denominations.

In Christianity alone you have
Catholic
Orthadox Catholic
Russian Orthadox Catholic
Episcopalian
Calvanist
Lutheran
Protestant
Methodist
Baptists
Anabaptist
Mormon
Nondenominational

I'm sure I'm missing many more so how are you going to show how each of these different denominations get equal time by their contribution to history?

It's impossible unless you hand out a timeline and say "Go at it".

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 06:47 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I'm an all or none guy and I see nothing but problems on the horizon with this thing.

There's going to be big problems by the different denominations.

In Christianity alone you have
Catholic
Orthadox Catholic
Russian Orthadox Catholic
Episcopalian
Calvanist
Lutheran
Protestant
Methodist
Baptists
Anabaptist
Mormon
Nondenominational

I'm sure I'm missing many more so how are you going to show how each of these different denominations get equal time by their contribution to history?

It's impossible unless you hand out a timeline and say "Go at it".

Depending on how you define denomination, there's somewhere north of 30,000 world-wide. Even if you reduce it down to major ones in the U.S., there are hundreds. And each one has enough differences that you can't really consider something of truth to someone else.

[*bfine32*]

(03-14-2016, 06:46 PM)Benton Wrote: I mean, use this board as a measuring stick. If we're going by thread topics, 3/4 of all problems in Europe are caused by Muslims.

I suggest hitting the back arrow ans see how many Front Page threads are about Conservatives/Christians trying to unjustly influence Society. 

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 06:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suggest hitting the back arrow ans see how many Front Page threads are about Conservatives/Christians trying to unjustly influence Society. 

Well, there's the guy who smashed the Buddhist up, but we don't know what religion he is. Maybe he should take a class where they teach about 96% Christianity, 1% Islam, 1% Buddhism and 1% Judaism? All that different exposure (roughly two educational hours going by a 225 day school year) would probably have enlightened the guy.

[McC]

Teaching the Bible and teaching religion are two very different things. God didn't create religions. Man did. In this very thread alone though, teaching Bible literacy classes very quickly became teaching religion.

[Belsnickel]

(03-14-2016, 06:47 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I'm an all or none guy and I see nothing but problems on the horizon with this thing.

There's going to be big problems by the different denominations.

In Christianity alone you have
Catholic
Orthadox Catholic
Russian Orthadox Catholic
Episcopalian
Calvanist
Lutheran
Protestant
Methodist
Baptists
Anabaptist
Mormon
Nondenominational

I'm sure I'm missing many more so how are you going to show how each of these different denominations get equal time by their contribution to history?

It's impossible unless you hand out a timeline and say "Go at it".

I started thinking about this as well. Would a Lutheran like an Evangelical teaching their son or daughter from the KJV? Same for the other way around from the NRSV. This would be a good example of the need for SOCAS, protecting church from state.

[GMDino]

(03-14-2016, 06:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suggest hitting the back arrow ans see how many Front Page threads are about Conservatives/Christians trying to unjustly influence Society. 

Two? If you include the Orthodox Jewish one?

[*bfine32*]

(03-14-2016, 07:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: Two?  If you include the Orthodox Jewish one?

There's this one


The Muslim one
The Jewish one
The Christian one (kkk)
The Conservative Terrorists one

I think to one about 20% of conservatives being Racists got bumped to page 2 by this one.

[*bfine32*]

(03-14-2016, 07:06 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, there's the guy who smashed the Buddhist up, but we don't know what religion he is. Maybe he should take a class where they teach about 96% Christianity, 1% Islam, 1% Buddhism and 1% Judaism? All that different exposure (roughly two educational hours going by a 225 day school year) would probably have enlightened the guy.

Exactly, he may have learned of love for your fellow man and understanding. 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(03-14-2016, 07:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I started thinking about this as well. Would a Lutheran like an Evangelical teaching their son or daughter from the KJV? Same for the other way around from the NRSV. This would be a good example of the need for SOCAS, protecting church from state.

Then what about the difference between Lutheran and Calvanists. 

Calvanist and Baptists although many Baptists have adopted Calvanists doctrine such as Predestination.

I'm a Baptist but not a Calvanist.

Which Version of the Bible do you use?
King James Version
New King James Version
New International Version
Scofield 
There are way to many to list

Everyone wants religion taught in schools but only their religion and no one else's.

[Benton]

(03-14-2016, 07:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly, he may have learned of love for your fellow man and understanding. 

In the two days of Buddhism? There would be a lot of other stuff to cover.

[Beaker]

My problem is two fold. First, this is a cleverly disguised and worded way to get religion into public schools. Once the foot is in the door, they can branch out into the science vs creation crapola. There is no place for religion of any kind in public schools. You want to discuss religion, do it at church, at home, on the street corner etc. But don't bring it into the classroom. Religion can be taught in private schools, and at the college level.

Secondly, the bible is not a historical text.