Khashoggi, Kushner, Trump

[Dill]

(10-18-2018, 01:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Jamal Khashoggi --> Muslim brotherhood --> Human Abedin --> Hillary Clinton --> Clinton Foundation --> Saudi arms sales

Nailed it. 

Nailed it! Yes you did. Thanks for the help. All I needed was the right associative logic!

[Dill]

(10-18-2018, 01:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Look, I get the mockery based on history, but he ain't wrong. This is in the media, and not just the far-right conspiracy theorist types. The NYT had a story about this side of Khashoggi. It's important that this be known because too often we like to put someone up on a pedestal when they are victims in this regard, but Khashoggi was far from a progressive reformer for the Middle East.

It is important, though, that we also don't use those connections of his to gloss over what happened. I think Haaretz puts it very well in this article talking about Khashoggi.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a lot of things, though often very different in different countries.  In Egypt, where it began, it was for years rather like a Salvation Army, helping people in times of economic crisis, especially the poor.  If your house burned down, the Muslim Brotherhood would be there for your family with food and blankets.  They espoused passive resistance, first against Nassar and the against Mubarak.  They were "Islamist" in that they thought Egyptian society and government should be guided by the Qu'ran, but also in favor of parliamentary democracy. In Jordan, their political party is a force for women's rights. But Bahrain and several others have deemed them "terrorists" likely for the threat of social change they pose. If someone says Kashoggi was a member or "sympathizer" I really have no idea what that means. I don't get much content from that--certainly not enough to think TERRORIST CONNECTIONS.  

I have a lot of respect for Haaretz, but again, connecting Kashoggi to Palestinian "terrorists" doesn't, in my view, plainly link him to evil or checker his past.  What most tempers any praise or respect I might have for Kashoggi is his familiarity and comfort level with the Saudi Royal family--though clearly that was eroding even before MBS took over.

That said, I agree this is spot on:
So it may be necessary to point out the obvious: when a journalist is assassinated by the government he criticized, it doesn’t really matter what views he held. Opinions quite simply never justify murder.

[GMDino]

[Belsnickel]

(10-22-2018, 09:40 AM)GMDino Wrote:

It was an accident! We just happened to have a doctor there that is known for performing autopsies and he just happened to have a bone saw on hand! But it was totally accidental!

[GMDino]

(10-22-2018, 09:59 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It was an accident! We just happened to have a doctor there that is known for performing autopsies and he just happened to have a bone saw on hand! But it was totally accidental!

Look we can't be presuming guilt when there is $110 Billion worth of arms to sell.

Even if there isn't.

[CKwi88]

(10-22-2018, 09:59 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It was an accident! We just happened to have a doctor there that is known for performing autopsies and he just happened to have a bone saw on hand! But it was totally accidental!

Not to mention a super convenient body double complete with a fake beard.

Totally "credible."

[Arturo Bandini]

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/22/middleeast/saudi-operative-jamal-khashoggi-clothes/index.html

[fredtoast]

I am shocked that so many people have such short memories.  From just last year.  .  .  

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/for-trump-we-have-a-lot-of-killers-isnt-a-criticism/515748/

In an interview that aired on Sunday, Bill O’Reilly alleged that Vladimir “Putin is a killer.” Donald Trump replied, “We have a lot of killers. Well, you think our country is so innocent?”

[Dill]

(10-22-2018, 09:59 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It was an accident! We just happened to have a doctor there that is known for performing autopsies and he just happened to have a bone saw on hand! But it was totally accidental!

[*bfine32*]

What do people want from this?

To stop the sale of Arms to SA?

To sanction SA?

To go to war with SA?

A strongly worded email?

[GMDino]

(10-22-2018, 02:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What do people want from this?

To stop the sale of Arms to SA?

To sanction SA?

To go to war with SA?

A strongly worded email?

Which arms sale?

Would he?

No?

At least?

Or anything other than what Trump does which is put money above the truth?

I know some feel the need to defend Trump ALL THE TIME becuase he is so picked on...but do you NOT see a problem with his "handling" of this?

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2018, 03:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: Which arms sale?

Would he?

No?

At least?

Or anything other than what Trump does which is put money above the truth?

I know some feel the need to defend Trump ALL THE TIME becuase he is so picked on...but do you NOT see a problem with his "handling" of this?

No defense of Trump (I have 0 idea how one could assume that from the post quoted). I simply asked what folks want us to do against SA and provided example from extreme to non-existent. 

Do you care to answer the question posed or simply ask a bunch of your own and accuse someone of doing stuff? 

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2018, 02:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What do people want from this?

To stop the sale of Arms to SA?

To sanction SA?

To go to war with SA?

A strongly worded email?

Sanctions.


What do YOU want?

[GMDino]

(10-22-2018, 04:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No defense of Trump (I have 0 idea how one could assume that from the post quoted). I simply asked what folks want us to do against SA and provided example from extreme to non-existent. 

Do you care to answer the question posed or simply ask a bunch of your own and accuse someone of doing stuff? 

Horsehockey.



You posting history says otherwise.

By asking what we want the "US" to do you mean the POTUS.  Stop with the fake "I was honestly asking".

I'd like us to sanction them...maybe severely.  But they own us thanks to our dependency on oil.  And they probably own Trump too.

What do YOU think we should do? 

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2018, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sanctions.


What do YOU want?

Hard to say as SA is our "Muslim allies"  against Iran, you probably things just as bad, if not worse. WTS, I'm good with sanctions. Lindsey Graham said "Sanction the Hell out of them" and I find him to be pretty wise lately. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2018, 04:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: Horsehockey.



You posting history says otherwise.

By asking what we want the "US" to do you mean the POTUS.  Stop with the fake "I was honestly asking".

I'd like us to sanction them...maybe severely.  But they own us thanks to our dependency on oil.  And they probably own Trump too.

What do YOU think we should do? 

I actually asked "what do people want from this", but don't let facts get in the way of a goo slur. 

[GMDino]

(10-22-2018, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I actually asked "what do people want from this", but don't let facts get in the way of a goo slur. 

Well who the hell is going to those things?  Some guy from Florida?  Your neighbor?  LOL!

You're too funny sometimes!

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2018, 04:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well who the hell is going to those things?  Some guy from Florida?  Your neighbor?  LOL!

You're too funny sometimes!

Congress. 

No doubt I'm too funny some times. I asked a simple question and that motivated you to attack, but I'm too funny some times. 

I get none of the open-minded will call you out on this (well Hollo might, but he doesn't post much anymore), but there's absolutely no way I'm to blame for your desire to slur in this instance.  

[Dill]

(10-22-2018, 02:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What do people want from this?

To stop the sale of Arms to SA?

To sanction SA?

To go to war with SA?

A strongly worded email?

Hey. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty." Let's wait until MBS is done investigating himself before we decide he is the perp. THEN we can decide on a response.

Now it is claimed that four phone calls went out from the Saudi embassy in Turkey during the time of the assassination--all directly to MBS. https://www.yahoo.com/news/saudi-king-crown-prince-call-051641947.html

According to Chris Matthews on Hardball tonight, another phone call has been added to the tally--one to WAshington D.C. (I have yet to find another source on that point.)

Looks like the WH might have to investigate itself as well. Did Kashoggi call Kushner for backup during that fistfight in the embassy??

[GMDino]

New spin by the liar.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/22/exclusive-donald-trump-calls-jamal-khasghoggi-death-plot-gone-awry/1729469002/

Quote:Exclusive: President Trump calls Jamal Khashoggi's death 'a plot gone awry'


ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE – President Donald Trump on Monday questioned the account Saudi officials have given him about the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi but said he still believed it was “a plot gone awry.” In an exclusive interview with USA TODAY, he indicated he would oppose efforts to cease arms sales to the kingdom in response.



There are “many other” potential penalties, he said, saying he would be guided by consultations with key members of Congress in settling on the appropriate response, likening it to the discussions he had with Senate Republicans during the Supreme Court confirmation battle over Brett Kavanaugh.


In characterizing the Khashoggi incident as a "plot gone awry," Trump indicated that he thought the journalist wasn’t deliberately lured into the consulate to be murdered. Saudi officials last week said Khashoggi's death followed a "brawl" inside the building, an explanation that drew skepticism from some on Capitol Hill. 

Trump questioned the validity of at least one detail that has emerged from the incident. Turkish officials have said Khashoggi’s body was cut up with a bone saw. Asked about that detail as a possible indication of wrongdoing, Trump sounded incredulous.


“Do you know there was a bone saw?” he replied.


Trump was expansive during an interview in his office aboard Air Force One as he flew to a rally in Houston for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, in a surprisingly competitive race for re-election. Occasionally watching himself on a wall-mounted TV tuned to Fox News, he expressed optimism about the midterm elections and discussed his agenda when the new Congress takes over.

Trump said he had talked on the phone with both Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and that more details about what happened inside the Saudi Consulate in Turkey would be known within a day or two.


“He says he is not involved nor is the king,” Trump said of the Saudi crown prince, declining to answer whether he believed his denials. If their involvement was proven, “I would be very upset about it. We’ll have to see.”


He called the killing of Khashoggi, a journalist and columnist for The Washington Post, “foolish and stupid.”


But he said billions of dollars in U.S. arms sales to the Saudis were an economic boon to Americans and a transaction that Russian and Chinese companies would be delighted to make, if the United States ended them. “We have a very big picture we have to keep in mind,” he said, noting also Saudi Arabia’s role in countering Iran's influence in the Middle East.


Critics, including some Republicans, have questioned the Trump’s administration’s response to what has become a global diplomatic crisis between the U.S. and a close ally in the Middle East. Some have suggested the incident could not have occurred without Salman's knowledge.


Trump has vacillated between criticizing a rush to judgment over what happened and trying to pacify critics who think he should take a much stronger stance, potentially by imposing sanctions. Before boarding Air Force One, Trump told reporters at the White House that he was “not satisfied” with the Saudi response so far.