Kid Arrested For Making A.......Clock?

[Brownshoe]

(09-29-2015, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I still say a white kid would not have been treated the same way.

The police investigated this case and declared that there was no "hoax bomb".

So why was the kid still suspended?

Because he brought something in that looked like a bomb. It wasn't for a project he just wanted to bring it in. A teacher told him to put it away, and he didn't. He actually plugged in the clock and let the alarm go off. There is a 0 tolerance policy with schools, and that's why he was suspended.

Isn't it obvious? Or do you just want to act like the school was racist?

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 07:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Because he brought something in that looked like a bomb. It wasn't for a project he just wanted to bring it in. A teacher told him to put it away, and he didn't. He actually plugged in the clock and let the alarm go off. There is a 0 tolerance policy with schools, and that's why he was suspended.

Isn't it obvious? Or do you just want to act like the school was racist?

These are not the facts as I understand them.  From what I read he had the device in his back pack when the alarm went off.  That is when the teacher demanded to see it.

I also understand that he showed it to other teachers who did not think he should be arrested for having a "fake bomb".  Maybe the other teachers were just smart enough to see that there clearly were no fake explosives in the "fake bomb", or maybe they were not as Islamophobic as the teacher who sent him to the office..

Even the police agree that it was not a fake bomb.

[Brownshoe]

(09-29-2015, 08:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: These are not the facts as I understand them.  From what I read he had the device in his back pack when the alarm went off.  That is when the teacher demanded to see it.

I also understand that he showed it to other teachers who did not think he should be arrested for having a "fake bomb".  Maybe the other teachers were just smart enough to see that there clearly were no fake explosives in the "fake bomb", or maybe they were not as Islamophobic as the teacher who sent him to the office..

Even the police agree that it was not a fake bomb.

You're still caught up on if it was a fake bomb. It doesn't matter if it was a fake bomb. The teacher told him to put it away because it looked suspicious and he didn't. If anyone would do that no matter what skin color, or religion the same thing would have happened to them. Obviously a pop-tart isn't a gun, but guess what happened to the white kid? He was suspended. There is a 0 tolerance policy with schools and things like this. You're a lawyer, so I know you're smart enough to grasp that. I just don't understand why you're not.

The only way the alarm could go off is if he plugged in the clock. If you look at the picture of the clock the battery is removed, so the only way the alarm would go off is if it was plugged in.

[Brownshoe]

(09-29-2015, 08:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You're still caught up on if it was a fake bomb. It doesn't matter if it was a fake bomb. The teacher told him to put it away because it looked suspicious and he didn't. If anyone would do that no matter what skin color, or religion the same thing would have happened to them. Obviously a pop-tart isn't a gun, but guess what happened to the white kid? He was suspended. There is a 0 tolerance policy with schools and things like this. You're a lawyer, so I know you're smart enough to grasp that. I just don't understand why you're not.

The only way the alarm could go off is if he plugged in the clock. If you look at the picture of the clock the battery is removed, so the only way the alarm would go off is if it was plugged in.

Plus in the police report it states that he plugged the clock into an outlet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/15/student-detained-police-mistake-clock-fake-bomb/72348060/

"According to Irving police, Ahmed's case contained a digital clock that the student had taken apart and rearranged. Police said the student had the briefcase in his English class, where he plugged it into an electrical outlet and it started to make noise."

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 08:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  There is a 0 tolerance policy with schools and things like this. You're a lawyer, so I know you're smart enough to grasp that. I just don't understand why you're not.

There is no "zero tolerance" policy on plugging something in against the teachers request.  There is only a "zero tolerance" policy regarding things like guns and bombs. And since the police investigation determined that there was no fake bomb then he should not have been suspended under any sort of a "zero tolerance" policy.

And it doesn't take an attorney to understand this.

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 08:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  The teacher told him to put it away because it looked suspicious and he didn't.

No.  The teacher took it away from him.  The teacher didn't know anything about it until the alarm went off.

[Brownshoe]

(09-29-2015, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no "zero tolerance" policy on plugging something in against the teachers request.  There is only a "zero tolerance" policy regarding things like guns and bombs. And since the police investigation determined that there was no fake bomb then he should not have been suspended under any sort of a "zero tolerance" policy.

And it doesn't take an attorney to understand this.

(09-29-2015, 09:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  The teacher took it away from him.  The teacher didn't know anything about it until the alarm went off.

One teacher told him to put it away. The teacher told him it looked suspicious, and he still didn't listen. He brought it to another class and plugged it in. The "clock" did look kind of like a bomb. He even said that it looked like a "movie bomb". Why would he plug in the clock that he knew looked like a "movie bomb", so the alarm would sound?

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 09:57 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  He even said that it looked like a "movie bomb".

No he didn't.  That is what a police officer tried to tell him.

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 09:57 PM)Brownshoe Wrote:  Why would he plug in the clock that he knew looked like a "movie bomb", so the alarm would sound?

If he wanted anyone to panic why would he tell everyone it was a clock and keep it in his backpack when the alarm went off?

He was probably just proud of it and wanted everyone to know what he had made.

[Rotobeast]

(09-29-2015, 07:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But there were not even any "fake" explosives for a teacher to attempt to identify.

I may not be able to 100% identify explosives either, but I know there are no invisible explosives out there.

You can see behind the digital display ?
Can you see inside the button pad ?
There's a reasonable amount of room inside of the transformer, too.
I'm not going to pretend to be knowledgeable on building such a thing, but I certainly think it would be feasible to contain something terrible within the parameters of the kid's "clock". 

(09-29-2015, 07:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It has nothing to do with you.  I ma just making arguments.


But didn't you just respond to four of my posts in a row also?

Oh, I understand.
It can be a sport.
I just had to respond to the anti-Muslim accusation.
My jab at 4 posts had to do with the idea of 4 separate posts versus utilizing the multi-quote function. 

(09-29-2015, 07:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wait, you are really trying to argue about this issue when you have no idea what the police or school have said about the incident?

No wonder you came to such a silly conclusion about what really happened.

The information I had was provided in the links, within the thread.
This is why I asked you for links to the information which you have been referencing.
I know you were looking for a hard-headed argument, but I'm willing to be open to having my opinion changed.

[fredtoast]

(09-29-2015, 10:08 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: My jab at 4 posts had to do with the idea of 4 separate posts versus utilizing the multi-quote function. 

I usually only use the multi-quote function when I am giving the same reply to multiple posts.  Otherwise it is easier to just make separate post for each point.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Him and his family have a history with this school.
His sister was suspended for threatening to bring a bomb to school.

He didn't make anything, he just took the cover off of a digital clock and put it in a briefcase not a pencil cover. Teacher said it looked like a bomb, when the police got there he refused to cooperate with them. Now he's a hero and is going to NY to meet with UN dignitaries, and his father wants to take him on a pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Once he's back from that, Obama wants to meet him in the White House..... And he's been invited to FB and Google HQ to meet with the owners and top CEO's.

After all that, I thought the whole thing that we've been talking about alot lately was to always cooperate with the police??? What a confusing message we are sending as a society. We are basically rewarding this kid for doing something that he should have been suspended for. Did the police over react? Possibly, but don't you get what you ask for when you don't cooperate with them?

[GMDino]

(09-30-2015, 01:24 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Him and his family have a history with this school.
His sister was suspended for threatening to bring a bomb to school.

He didn't make anything, he just took the cover off of a digital clock and put it in a briefcase not a pencil cover. Teacher said it looked like a bomb, when the police got there he refused to cooperate with them. Now he's a hero and is going to NY to meet with UN dignitaries, and his father wants to take him on a pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Once he's back from that, Obama wants to meet him in the White House..... And he's been invited to FB and Google HQ to meet with the owners and top CEO's.

After all that, I thought the whole thing that we've been talking about alot lately was to always cooperate with the police??? What a confusing message we are sending as a society. We are basically rewarding this kid for doing something that he should have been suspended for. Did the police over react? Possibly, but don't you get what you ask for when you don't cooperate with them?

A little citation would be nice for any of the above accusations.

The kid DID cooperate...even without being allowed to call a parent, having a parent notified, or a lawyer present, you know.  And AFTER he repeatedly told them it wasn't a bomb and he wasn't pretending it was a bomb...the charged him with bringing in a "hoax bomb".

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150915-irving-ninth-grader-arrested-after-taking-homemade-clock-to-school.ece

Quote:Irving’s police chief announced Wednesday that charges won’t be filed against Ahmed Mohamed, the MacArthur High School freshman arrested Monday after he brought what school officials and police described as a “hoax bomb” on campus.


At a joint press conference with Irving ISD, Chief Larry Boyd said the device — confiscated by an English teacher despite the teen’s insistence that it was a clock — was “certainly suspicious in nature.”


School officers questioned Ahmed about the device and why Ahmed had brought it to school. Boyd said Ahmed was then handcuffed “for his safety and for the safety of the officers” and taken to a juvenile detention center. He was later released to his parents, Boyd said.


“The follow-up investigation revealed the device apparently was a homemade experiment, and there’s no evidence to support the perception he intended to create alarm,” Boyd said, describing the incident as a “naive accident.”

...

Police skepticism

Ahmed never claimed his device was anything but a clock, said police spokesman James McLellan. And police have no reason to think it was dangerous. But officers still didn’t believe Ahmed was giving them the whole story.


“We have no information that he claimed it was a bomb,” McLellan said. “He kept maintaining it was a clock, but there was no broader explanation.”

Asked what broader explanation the boy could have given, the spokesman explained:

“It could reasonably be mistaken as a device if left in a bathroom or under a car. The concern was, what was this thing built for? Do we take him into custody?”

Police led Ahmed out of MacArthur about 3 p.m., his hands cuffed behind him and an officer on each arm. A few students gaped in the halls. He remembers the shocked expression of his student counselor — the one “who knows I’m a good boy.”

Ahmed was spared the inside of a cell. The police sent him out of the juvenile detention center to meet his parents shortly after taking his fingerprints.

They never removed the clock.  They never called a bomb squad.  The never evacuated the building.

Its a clear case of a teacher going overboard and the police, well, I hesitate to say they handled it poorly or I'll be "the cop hater" again.    But based on the reports it certainly SOUNDS like they went a tad, wee-bit, overboard for something that could have been figured out in a few minutes.

[fredtoast]

(09-30-2015, 01:24 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: After all that, I thought the whole thing that we've been talking about alot lately was to always cooperate with the police???

 We are basically rewarding this kid for doing something that he should have been suspended for.

How did the boy not cooperate with the police?

What should he have been suspended for?

And why was he handcuffed? What was the point of that?

[fredtoast]

(09-30-2015, 08:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: The kid DID cooperate...even without being allowed to call a parent, having a parent notified, or a lawyer present, you know. 

If you refuse to confess to a crime then you are "not cooperating".

[GMDino]

(09-30-2015, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How did the boy not cooperate with the police?

What should he have been suspended for?

And why was he handcuffed?  What was the point of that?

Probably to keep him from speeding away.  

(09-30-2015, 11:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you refuse to confess to a crime then you are "not cooperating".

[GMDino]

Ah...so its FOX that is telling us about this future gang member/current terrorist:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/09/30/fox-claims-ahmed-mohammed-may-not-be-as-innocen/205869

Quote:STEVE DOOCY: You know that Texas teenager we've been telling you about, detained in school after officials looked at his homemade clock, thought it might be a bomb. Reportedly has a history of trouble. A former teacher of his shedding some light on his past.

ANNA KOOIMAN: 14-year-old Ahmed Mohammed was personally invited to the White House by the president because of his "cool clock." But now we're learning the techie teenager may not be as innocent as he seems. The nation did take notice when the Muslim boy was taken out of school when a teacher mistook his invention for a hoax bomb, claiming Islamophobia. But now Ahmed's 7th grade history teacher Ralph Kubiak tells the Dallas Morning Sun this isn't the first time he's been in trouble. Kubiak claims Mohammed was suspended for several weeks during the sixth grade. A family friend says it came from blowing soap bubbles in the bathroom. But Kubiak also claims Mohammed spent time in a reassignment center the following year to complete a punishment. He also says the "weird little kid" would often bring inventions into school, like a homemade remote he used to prank a teenager by shutting off a projector in class. Of Ahmed, Kubiak says he's "one of those kids that could either be CEO of a company or head of a gang." Kubiak claims he called Ahmed after the clock incident with Ahmed bragging on the phone saying this: "I'm going to be really big on the internet one day." And Ahmed was right about that. After the clock incident, Ahmed received invitations to Facebook, Google, the U.N., and, as previously stated, the White House. It's unknown if Presidnet Obama is aware of his past disciplinary problems in school. But right after the clock incident, the president suggested it could inspire more kids to like science.

[fredtoast]

(09-30-2015, 12:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ah...so its FOX that is telling us about this future gang member/current terrorist:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/09/30/fox-claims-ahmed-mohammed-may-not-be-as-innocen/205869

People need to read the entire article in the Dallas Morning News instead of the Foxnews version.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150926-before-ahmeds-fame-fantastic-inventions-and-a-fight-with-authority.ece


Some of his middle school teachers were surprised to hear that MacArthur High staff called police this month after Ahmed brought a homemade clock to class. He had dragged far more elaborate gizmos into Sam Houston all the time.

When a seemingly possessed projector kept shutting off midlecture, young boys’ snickers surrounded Ahmed’s desk, where he sat with a hand-built remote control in his lap.

When a tutor’s cellphone went dead, Ahmed’s jerry-rigged battery charger brought it back to life.

Some of these creations looked much like the infamous clock — a mess of wires and exposed circuits stuffed inside a hinged case, perhaps suspicious to some. But no one interviewed by The Dallas Morning News remembered Ahmed getting into trouble for bringing his creations to Sam Houston.

.....

In November, Bond wrote a letter to the superintendent, school board president and other officials, protesting that Ahmed had been suspended for defending himself during a hallway fight.

A larger boy had been choking Ahmed, Bond wrote. What’s more: “Ahmed also alleges that everyday, students in the school are calling him ‘Bacon Boy and Sausage Boy and ISIS Boy.’”

Bond said the principal overturned the suspension after meeting with Ahmed.

...


“This kid was being pushed. At least he thought he was being pushed,” Kubiak said. “He’s got a habit for attracting or being in situations — being on the outside.”

Ahmed wasn’t the only one.

Kubiak, the eternal civil rights ideologue, was growing uncomfortable with Sam Houston’s administration. He complained to the superintendent that the school was too quick to suspend children and said he refused to use a new student evaluation system that “wrote some kids off.” 

[Rotobeast]

(09-30-2015, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How did the boy not cooperate with the police?

What should he have been suspended for?

And why was he handcuffed?  What was the point of that?

The only legitimate reason that I see for suspension is that of bringing in a device that could electrocute a student.
The transformer seemed to be loose, which could allow the contacts of the AC current to conduct through the metal of the case.
I only bring that up, as it was said that he plugged it in.
That presented a possibly lethal situation.
If it only ran off of the 9v battery, I would have a tough time suspending him.

(09-30-2015, 12:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People need to read the entire article in the Dallas Morning News instead of the Foxnews version.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/northwest-dallas-county/headlines/20150926-before-ahmeds-fame-fantastic-inventions-and-a-fight-with-authority.ece


Some of his middle school teachers were surprised to hear that MacArthur High staff called police this month after Ahmed brought a homemade clock to class. He had dragged far more elaborate gizmos into Sam Houston all the time.

When a seemingly possessed projector kept shutting off midlecture, young boys’ snickers surrounded Ahmed’s desk, where he sat with a hand-built remote control in his lap.

When a tutor’s cellphone went dead, Ahmed’s jerry-rigged battery charger brought it back to life.

Some of these creations looked much like the infamous clock — a mess of wires and exposed circuits stuffed inside a hinged case, perhaps suspicious to some. But no one interviewed by The Dallas Morning News remembered Ahmed getting into trouble for bringing his creations to Sam Houston.

.....

In November, Bond wrote a letter to the superintendent, school board president and other officials, protesting that Ahmed had been suspended for defending himself during a hallway fight.

A larger boy had been choking Ahmed, Bond wrote. What’s more: “Ahmed also alleges that everyday, students in the school are calling him ‘Bacon Boy and Sausage Boy and ISIS Boy.’”

Bond said the principal overturned the suspension after meeting with Ahmed.

...


“This kid was being pushed. At least he thought he was being pushed,” Kubiak said. “He’s got a habit for attracting or being in situations — being on the outside.”

Ahmed wasn’t the only one.

Kubiak, the eternal civil rights ideologue, was growing uncomfortable with Sam Houston’s administration. He complained to the superintendent that the school was too quick to suspend children and said he refused to use a new student evaluation system that “wrote some kids off.” 

It sucks that the kid was being bullied.
The projector gag doesn't bode well for him though. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

What I find amusing, is that many of you are jumping up and down in support the kid.
I mean obviously he can't be lying now can he? The School can't defend themselves in the media because of his age and because his parents refuse to sign a waiver so that the school can defend itself.

There's always more than one side to every story, but some of you just jump in head first (like Obama), and most of the time, once the full story gets out, you have to back track or you stop commenting and act like it's a non-issue. Don't some of you ever learn to wait for the full facts first?