Kim/Trump Summit Disaster

[*michaelsean*]

(03-07-2019, 10:24 AM)jj22 Wrote: I know they don't. Nobody cares about anyone's opinion on here. It's our opinion on a message board. And mine remains. I'd hope my parents wouldn't a bout face and work behind the scenes to not officially blame Kim because the POTUS they support says so.

Slam me if you want, but that's my opinion and I'm not ashamed of it.

I certainly wouldn't do that to my fallen son. Maybe you guys would and that's why you choose to attack me for daring to say it. But there are a lot of people on social media questioning how they could do this to Otto, so those of you fine with the parents falling in line with Trump over Otto are not of the popular opinion.

At least it was a bipartisan resolution and sounds like their a bout face took all the law makers by surprise. Which is understandable because typically Republicans won't do anything against the POTUS without full support of all parties. So if they knew this backchannel convo between the Trump Admin and Otto's parents was happening they likely wouldn't have signed off on it.

Oh please quit with the "I'm daring" nonsense.  What you are is unaware. Parents who lose a child can do all sorts of things, and it can change on a dime.  Literally whatever can bring them peace that day.  I don't care about their politics.  I don't care what opinion on social media is.  Go have a child, ponder that child's demise, and then come back and judge someone who has lost a child.

  I defended Cindy Sheehan. she was abused by the right and used by the left, but it kept her going.  Any parent who loses a child and doesn't eat a gun has my admiration.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-07-2019, 10:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: jj is stating his opinion.  I don't think I agree with it.  But at least he isn't afraid to have one and share it.

I can understand the parents being tired of having this in the public eye on one hand, but on the other hand they were very vocal when their son came home and not afraid to speak out when DJT gave Kim an out after their summit.  If they reached out to the congressman and said "don't do this" as to the resolution it does seem a bit "weird" (if that's the right word).  Why not have something more than condemns Kim and NK?

But I'm not the parent and so I won't criticize their decisions.  Doesn't mean no one can't discuss or opine on the background reasons for it.

Edit:  I also read they won a settlement against NK.  Perhaps there is some backdoor negotiations going on to see they get paid they don't want to risk?

You're a parent and I'm a parent, and we both know that there isn't anything worse because while we haven't experienced it, we've thought about it plenty, and we've waited up when they are late while imagining the absolute worst. The times when they don't answer the phone or reply to a text.  Of all the people I'm told not to judge in this world, I think parents who lose children should be pretty close to the top of the list.  Short of them committing crimes, I'm just not going to do it.

[jj22]

(03-07-2019, 11:03 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh please quit with the "I'm daring" nonsense.  What you are is unaware. Parents who lose a child can do all sorts of things, and it can change on a dime.  Literally whatever can bring them peace that day.  I don't care about their politics.  I don't care what opinion on social media is.  Go have a child, ponder that child's demise, and then come back and judge someone who has lost a child.

  I defended Cindy Sheehan. she was abused by the right and used by the left, but it kept her going.  Any parent who loses a child and doesn't eat a gun has my admiration.

I don't have to do any of that to tell you I wouldn't turn on my deceased (who I felt was murdered and/or tortured) child for politics. Sorry. You're not going to change my mind. But if you would do that then that's on you. You have that right. You're obviously not alone. I wouldn't agree with it, but it certainly is your right Michael, and I've said what I said about it.

[GMDino]

(03-07-2019, 11:12 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You're a parent and I'm a parent, and we both know that there isn't anything worse because while we haven't experienced it, we've thought about it plenty, and we've waited up when they are late while imagining the absolute worst.  The times when they don't answer the phone or reply to a text.  Of all the people I'm told not to judge in this world, I think parents who lose children should be pretty close to the top of the list.  Short of them committing crimes, I'm just not going to do it.

I agree, and I'm not "judging" them.  I'm wondering too why they have been so vocal and then they ask for this NOT to happen.  Like I said, maybe they're tired of it all for now.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-07-2019, 11:20 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't have to do any of that to tell you I wouldn't turn on my deceased (who I felt was murdered and/or tortured) child for politics. Sorry. You're not going to change my mind. But if you would then that's on you. You have that right. I wouldn't agree with it, but it certainly is your right.

No you have to do all of that so that you can understand. 

[jj22]

I'll never understand turning on my deceased son for politics.

And if the day comes I do, shame on me.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-07-2019, 11:23 AM)GMDino Wrote: I agree, and I'm not "judging" them.  I'm wondering too why they have been so vocal and then they ask for this NOT to happen.  Like I said, maybe they're tired of it all for now.

Things change.  Hell maybe the Trump admin has been all buddy buddy to them and made them feel important or special, and that makes them feel OK for a while.  In a regular person, not very admirable.  For someone in their position, whatever works.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-07-2019, 11:30 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'll never understand turning on my deceased son for politics.

And if the day comes I do, shame on me.

You assume it's for politics.  

Edit: I don't judge them because I don't know what I would do. I don't know what is right and wrong. I don't know if I would accept money from a lawsuit or give it away. I don't know if I would stay sober or drink myself to death. I don't know anything, and I pray every night that I never find out. The problem is I'm sure they prayed too so that's not very helpful.

[GMDino]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-approved-payment-2-million-bill-north-korea-172749608.html?.tsrc=fauxdal&fbclid=IwAR269r1SE7G-u1pJ54OaD-bbp2NNtrM0_M7J_OGdmOzNjTwD3zw0Ub_7yfo

Quote:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump approved payment of a $2 million bill presented by North Korea to cover its care of comatose American Otto Warmbier, a college student who died shortly after being returned home from 17 months in a North Korean prison, the Washington Post reported on Thursday.



The Post said an invoice was handed to State Department envoy Joseph Yun hours before Warmbier, 22, was flown out of Pyongyang in a coma on June 13, 2017. Warmbier died six days later.


The U.S. envoy, who was sent to retrieve Warmbier, signed an agreement to pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from Trump, the Post reported, citing two unidentified people familiar with the situation.


"We do not comment on hostage negotiations, which is why they have been so successful during this administration," White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told Reuters.


Yun also told Reuters he could not comment on diplomatic exchanges. But in an interview with CNN on Thursday, he said he was given broad orders to secure Warmbier's release and he understood the instructions came directly from Trump.


"Yes, my orders were completely: do whatever you can to get Otto back," he told CNN. Yun said he understood that money had been exchanged in previous releases of U.S. prisoners and was justified as "hospital costs," but he gave no further details.


Representatives for the State Department did not respond to a request for comment.


The bill was sent to the Treasury Department and remained unpaid through 2017, the Post reported. It was not known if the administration later paid the bill.


Warmbier, a University of Virginia student visiting North Korea as a tourist, was imprisoned in January 2016. 
North Korea state media said he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labour for trying to steal an item bearing a propaganda slogan from his hotel.


Reached by phone, Fred Warmbier, Otto Warmbier's father, declined to comment on the report or to confirm the Post's account that he had said the hospital bill sounded like ransom.


Trump has denied paying North Korea to release hostages. "I got back our hostages; I never paid them anything," he said at a September news conference.


Warmbier's parents issued a sharp statement in March after Trump said he believed North Korean leader Kim Jong Un's claim not to have known how their son was treated.


The U.S. president also praised Kim's leadership after their second summit collapsed in February in Hanoi when the two sides failed to reach a deal for Pyongyang to give up its nuclear weapons.


"Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto," Fred and Cindy Warmbier said in March. 
"Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuses or lavish praise can change that."


Trump said later he held North Korea responsible for the young man's death.
A U.S. court in December ordered North Korea to pay $501 million in damages for the torture and death of Warmbier.


An Ohio coroner said Warmbier died from a lack of oxygen and blood to the brain. Pyongyang blamed botulism and ingestion of a sleeping pill and dismissed torture claims.

Basically if DJT said he didn't do it you know they did it.

[Dill]

(04-25-2019, 06:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-approved-payment-2-million-bill-north-korea-172749608.html?.tsrc=fauxdal&fbclid=IwAR269r1SE7G-u1pJ54OaD-bbp2NNtrM0_M7J_OGdmOzNjTwD3zw0Ub_7yfo

The U.S. envoy, who was sent to retrieve Warmbier, signed an agreement to pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from Trump, the Post reported, citing two unidentified people familiar with the situation.


"We do not comment on hostage negotiations, which is why they have been so successful during this administration," White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told Reuters.


Basically if DJT said he didn't do it you know they did it.

I don't comment on Trump administration hostage negotiations, which is why I have been so successful on this message board.

[GMDino]

(04-26-2019, 11:21 AM)Dill Wrote: I don't comment on Trump administration hostage negotiations, which is why I have been so successful on this message board.

I'm the "cheif" commentator on it.  

Upon further review though Trump never pays any of his bills so why wouldn't he say he'd pay it? 

[GMDino]

(04-25-2019, 06:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-approved-payment-2-million-bill-north-korea-172749608.html?.tsrc=fauxdal&fbclid=IwAR269r1SE7G-u1pJ54OaD-bbp2NNtrM0_M7J_OGdmOzNjTwD3zw0Ub_7yfo



Basically if DJT said he didn't do it you know they did it.

https://www.axios.com/otto-warmbier-north-korea-hospital-bill-a4752e57-8244-43cc-81d2-545ff98a3f7c.html

Quote:Bolton confirms U.S. signed document to pay North Korea for Otto Warmbier


National security adviser John Bolton confirmed on "Fox News Sunday" that a Trump administration official signed a document pledging to pay North Korea a $2 million hospital bill to release Otto Warmbier, though he said no money was ultimately transferred.

Quote:WALLACE: Did North Korea demand money for the release of Otto Warmbier?

Quote:BOLTON: It appears that they did. This occurred before I came into the administration, but that's my understanding.

Quote:WALLACE: Did the U.S. official who was there to get him out of the country, Joseph Yun, did he sign a document pledging the money in order to get him out.

Quote:BOLTON: That is what I am told, yes.

Quote:WALLACE: I guess the bottom line question is, did the U.S. pay any money to North Korea, however it was disguised, after Warmbier was released?

Quote:BOLTON: Absolutely not. And that's the key point.

The backdrop: President Trump called the Washington Post story that first reported the hospital bill "fake news," though the report notably said it was "unclear" whether the administration actually ended up paying the bill. Nothing in the story has been proven inaccurate.

[BmorePat87]

So we promised to pay but then went back on our word and now everyone knows so we can't do this anymore?

[GMDino]

(04-29-2019, 02:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So we promised to pay but then went back on our word and now everyone knows so we can't do this anymore?

Also Trump said we never promised to pay and Bolton said we did.  So they can't trust each other either.

[Au165]

The former envoy now confirms he signed this agreement to pay $2 Million.

Which means a guy (Trump) who has a history of not paying debts, is now deciding to not pay a debt he agreed to. Maybe he just thinks we can file bankruptcy and make it go away.