LE Leaks show treatment of pro BLM protestors vs conservative militias

[GMDino]

(07-28-2020, 09:36 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: How many times has the administration’s account of this incident been modified after patently false details in their story were contested?

If the President says it...or anyone in his administration...it is a lie.

Citation: Throwing out the first pitch for the Yankees.

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 09:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't say anyone was lying and the tone of tone of this post shows me rational discussion has come to an end. You can be right.

Well, you did say they were lying. Clergy said they were run off of church grounds, and you said that it was public property. That is saying they are lying without explicitly stating it. Your high horse is more like Lil' Sebastian on this one.

[Belsnickel]

Who could have ever imagined something like this would be happening? https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/

Quote:RICHMOND, Va. – Riots in downtown Richmond over the weekend were instigated by white supremacists under the guise of Black Lives Matter, according to law enforcement officials.

Protesters tore down police tape and pushed forward toward Richmond police headquarters, where they set a city dump truck on fire.

[*bfine32*]

(07-28-2020, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, you did say they were lying. Clergy said they were run off of church grounds, and you said that it was public property. That is saying they are lying without explicitly stating it. Your high horse is more like Lil' Sebastian on this one.

Is it possible they could have confused the public road in front of the church with Church property? I did not say anyone was lying. You just...... how do we say it.....are putting words in my mouth; I didn't say the clergy were lying or that I trust the admin more. But when responses turn to that i know that's the time to concede the discussion

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 10:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is it possible they could have confused the public road in front of the church with Church property? I did not say anyone was lying. You just...... how do we say it.....are putting words in my mouth; I didn't say the clergy were lying or that I trust the admin more. But when responses turn to that i know that's the time to concede the discussion

Nope. They said specifically they were on church property. That is what I have been saying all along and you said they weren't. I don't know what else to call that other than you implying that they are lying about the place they were run off from. But whatever makes you feel better about your position.

[*bfine32*]

(07-28-2020, 10:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Nope. They said specifically they were on church property. That is what I have been saying all along and you said they weren't. I don't know what else to call that other than you implying that they are lying about the place they were run off from. But whatever makes you feel better about your position.

Oh, they "specifically" said they were on church property. I remove my assertion that's it's possible they could have been confused. I've seen numerous folks in combat, trained to fight in a combat environment swear they were where they want. A couple even specially said it. I didn't call them liars. But for some reason these clergy facing the shock and awe of law enforcement lawlessly invading and occupying their church could not have been mistaken.

You know what makes me feel better about my position? The person on the other end not making up shit that was said. See you in the next thread.   

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, they "specifically" said they were on church property. I remove my assertion that's it's possible they could have been confused. I've seen numerous folks in combat, trained to fight in a combat environment swear they were where they want. A couple even specially said it. I didn't call them liars. But for some reason these clergy facing the shock and awe of law enforcement lawlessly invading and occupying their church could not have been mistaken.

You know what makes me feel better about my position? The person on the other end not making up shit that was said. See you in the next thread.   

[GMDino]

(07-28-2020, 11:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh, they "specifically" said they were on church property. I remove my assertion that's it's possible they could have been confused. I've seen numerous folks in combat, trained to fight in a combat environment swear they were where they want. A couple even specially said it. I didn't call them liars. But for some reason these clergy facing the shock and awe of law enforcement lawlessly invading and occupying their church could not have been mistaken.

You know what makes me feel better about my position? The person on the other end not making up shit that was said. See you in the next thread.   

You have to ask yourself (universal for both) who is more likely to lie:  The clergy people who were gassed on their own property or the administration that changed their story multiple times about the gassing and have a record of lying every day about even the most mundane subjects.

Does that mean the clergy were not lying or mistaken?  Of course not.  There are no absolutes.  But there are trends and patterns and ability to discern truth based on outside factors.

[*bfine32*]

(07-28-2020, 11:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: You have to ask yourself (universal for both) who is more likely to lie:  The clergy people who were gassed on their own property or the administration that changed their story multiple times about the gassing and have a record of lying every day about even the most mundane subjects.

Does that mean the clergy were not lying or mistaken?  Of course not.  There are no absolutes.  But there are trends and patterns and ability to discern truth based on outside factors.

Fair reply.

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2020, 11:13 AM)GMDino Wrote: You have to ask yourself (universal for both) who is more likely to lie:  The clergy people who were gassed on their own property or the administration that changed their story multiple times about the gassing and have a record of lying every day about even the most mundane subjects.

Does that mean the clergy were not lying or mistaken?  Of course not.  There are no absolutes.  But there are trends and patterns and ability to discern truth based on outside factors.

The issue is that the clergy where there because they were using their patio as a place for gathering. They would tend to those that were injured or dehydrated. They would pray for peace and justice. All this took place on the patio in front of their church. Here is an image from earlier in the day this occurred.



Tjis link, hopefully, will bring up the Google Street View where you can see the patio: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9004558,-77.0365659,3a,75y,88.49h,100.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfzsrQJ52HyJ3buOZJy_P0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

That is where they were. They set up there because it is church grounds and because it allowed them to be separated from the protests enough that they could render aid without being in the way. They weren't mistaken or confused. They were on church grounds and it was confiscated from the clergy for the photo op.

[GMDino]

(07-28-2020, 11:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The issue is that the clergy where there because they were using their patio as a place for gathering. They would tend to those that were injured or dehydrated. They would pray for peace and justice. All this took place on the patio in front of their church. Here is an image from earlier in the day this occurred.



Tjis link, hopefully, will bring up the Google Street View where you can see the patio: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9004558,-77.0365659,3a,75y,88.49h,100.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfzsrQJ52HyJ3buOZJy_P0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

That is where they were. They set up there because it is church grounds and because it allowed them to be separated from the protests enough that they could render aid without being in the way. They weren't mistaken or confused. They were on church grounds and it was confiscated from the clergy for the photo op.

Oh *I* have no doubt who is telling the truth.  IIRC there was one story about how they were actually tending to people who were injured when they were kicked out. (I don't have time to find that so I apologize in advance if that is wrong/bad information/or I am confusing it with a separate event.)

Edit: Found it.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/06/im-shaken-priest-forcibly-removed-by-police-from-dc-church-for-president-trump-photo-opportunity-shares-experience.html

Quote:The Rev. Gini Gerbasi is a rector at St. John’s Episcopal Church in Georgetown, about two miles from where police cleared out peaceful protesters to create space for President Donald Trump on Monday evening.


“I am shaken, not so much by the taste of tear gas and the bit of a cough I still have, but by the fact that that show of force was for a PHOTO OPPORTUNITY,” Gerbasi said on Facebook. “The patio of St. John's, Lafayette square had been HOLY GROUND today. A place of respite and laughter and water and granola bars and fruit snacks. But that man turned it into a BATTLE GROUND first, and a cheap political stunt second.”

Following police removing protesters, Trump posed in front of the church holding a bible.

Photos show jarring scene in park near White House
President Donald Trump holds a Bible as he visits outside St. John's Church across Lafayette Park from the White House Monday, June 1, 2020, in Washington. Part of the church was set on fire during protests on Sunday night. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)AP


Gerbasi reported that the space around the church remained peaceful until about 6:15 p.m. Shortly after, Gerbasi said, police stated pushing protesters off H Street, which is between the church, Lafayette Park and the White House.

“They started using tear gas and folks were running at us for eyewashes or water or wet paper towels,” Gerbasi said. “At this point, Julia, one of our seminarians for next year (who is a trauma nurse) and I looked at each other in disbelief. I was coughing, her eyes were watering, and we were trying to help people as the police - in full riot gear - drove people toward us.”

As others ran, Gerbasi said she remained with the Black Lives Matter medic team on site, which had prepared eye wash prior to the protest. She said she saw more tear gas, concussion grenades and believed she saw someone get hit by a rubber bullet.

Gerbasi described a scene where police in riot gear walked onto the church’s patio with metal shields and pushed people off the patio, driving them back.


Gerbasi estimated that the group was pushed back about 20 feet to K Street. It wasn’t until 7 p.m., when Gerbasi arrived back at her car, that she realized Trump was at the church with a bible in his hand.

“WE WERE DRIVEN OFF OF THE PATIO AT ST. JOHN’S - a place of peace and respite and medical care throughout the day - SO THAT MAN COULD HAVE A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH!!!” Gerbasi wrote on Facebook. “PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT HE COULD POSE IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH WITH A BIBLE! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!”

[BmorePat87]

[GMDino]

I just ran across this article on the RNC speakers.

Not that I needed more info on them being awful people but since they are back in the news thanks to their recent speaking engagement in support of the POTUS.

https://forward.com/news/national/453183/the-rabbi-who-is-neighbor-to-mark-and-patricia-mccloskey-speaks-out-they/?fbclid=IwAR3n_bsRSEIdAGjegzQAAuw3CsXfAYfhrPm2Ld1cy1SC4atA7S09r5ETOV8

Quote:The rabbi who is neighbor to Mark and Patricia McCloskey speaks out: ‘They are bullies’
Rob EshmanAugust 24, 2020


When Rabbi Susan Talve heard that Patricia and Mark McCloskey would be among the speakers addressing the Republican National Convention, she decided she could no longer stay quiet.

“It’s so upsetting that they have a national audience,” Talve said. “It’s upsetting we make heroes out of people who hate.”
The McCloskeys are Talve’s neighbors. Their property’s northern wall abuts the property of St. Louis’ Jewish Central Reform Congregation, where Talve is the rabbi.


Image by Karen Kotner

In 2013, the synagogue placed beehives along the wall to produce honey for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year. One morning they found the hives destroyed and all the bees dead. Mark McCloskey had taken an ax or sledgehammer to them.
His issue? The fence between them sat six inches inside the McCloskey’s property line. The hives were his to wreck.

“He could have picked up the phone and said, ‘Hey, those beehives are on my property,’ and we would have happily moved them,” said Talve.

Related story: That Time Donald Trump’s Father Was Arrested At A KKK Rally In Queens

She said children at the synagogue wept when they heard the news of the hives. The synagogue maintains raised bed gardens on its property that supply some 2,000 pounds of fresh produce to a local food pantry, as well as pear, fig and apple trees.
“We were going to have our own apples and honey for Rosh Hashanah!” she said.

She said the McCloskeys didn’t contact the temple at all before lashing out.

Instead, McCloskey left a note threatening to sue the synagogue for damages if the shattered hives were not removed at once.
“Civility,” Talve said. “I’m willing to speak out now because there’s such a lack of civility that’s happening, and I don’t feel like I can be a part of that, and silence is complicity.”

Talve paused.

“They are bullies,” she said. “The fact that they’re speaking at the convention is a win for bullies.”

Judging by their remarks at the Republican National Convention Monday night, the McCloskeys clearly don’t see it that way. They are the victims of a Democratic-run city that lets lawbreakers run rampant.

“What you saw happen to us could just as easily happen to you who are watching from quiet neighborhoods around our country,” Patricia McCloskey said to the convention.

“It seems the Democrats view the job of the government as protecting criminals from honest citizens,” said her husband.
When reporter Jeremy Kohler broke the storyof the McCloskey’s anti-beehive rampage in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Talve confirmed what happened but otherwise refrained from speaking out against the couple.


Image by Jewish Central Reform Con...

Mark McCloskey left this note after he destroyed bee hives owned by neighboring Jewish Central Reform Congregation

“At the time, we decided not to, because it was on their property,” she said. “They’re both attorneys. They’ve caused a lot of trouble for people. The advice that we got was, let it go. We live next door to these people that have guns and we have children. But every once in a while you have to speak up and say enough.”

The McCloskeys made national headlines by waving guns at Black Lives Protesters who neared their mansion on tony Portland Place on the evening of June 28.

But by then they already had a long and well-documented history of litigation, threats and neighborhood feuds.
They were locked in litigation to make their neighborhood association enforce a rule against unmarried couples residing there. Talve said they only cared because a gay couple had moved into the exclusive neighborhood.

“Certain people on Portland Place, for political reasons, wanted to make it a gay issue,” Mark McCloskey told The Post-Dispatch.
But Talve doesn’t buy it.

“Any chance they have to sow division they’ll take it,” she said.

She said the couple’s actions during the evening of the Black Lives Matter march are a case in point.
The protesters were peaceful, Talve said.

She said she knew this because many members of her synagogue marched with them, and she works closely with many of the local BLM activists.

In 2014, during protests over the police killing of Micahel Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, Talve was the most outspoken Jewish religious leader at the scene.

In 2017 Talve’s synagogue opened its doors to provide refuge for protesters when a march against police violence itself turned violent.

At the time, a trending Twitter hashtag called on the police to #GasTheSynagogue.

Talve is certain such stances did not make her congregation popular with the McCloskeys or the well-armed people in the area who support them. During the June 28 march, she said BLM members stationed themselves in the parking lot to protect the synagogue from possible attack from militia-like groups.

Instead of the McCloskeys, Talve said the real hero in the June 28 confrontations is St. Louis circuit attorney Kimberly Gardner, who filed charges against the couple for unlawful use of weapons and pointing firearms at protesters, which is a class E felony.

“The protestors were not charged with a crime,” Mark McCloskey said at the convention, “but she charged us with felonies for daring to defend our home.”

President Donald Trump has also publicly criticized Gardner for prosecuting the McCloskeys.

“These are the values that this administration has been putting forward, values that sow hate among people,” said Talve. “They stand for a kind of white supremacist system. Our resistance is to love each other.”

She provides some more information on the peaceful protesters and how she knows they peaceful and it was interesting that none of them were charged with anything.  I had not heard that before.  I thought at least breaking down the gate...right? Maybe she was wrong.  I'll have to check.

[Belsnickel]

(08-25-2020, 02:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: I just ran across this article on the RNC speakers.

Not that I needed more info on them being awful people but since they are back in the news thanks to their recent speaking engagement in support of the POTUS.

https://forward.com/news/national/453183/the-rabbi-who-is-neighbor-to-mark-and-patricia-mccloskey-speaks-out-they/?fbclid=IwAR3n_bsRSEIdAGjegzQAAuw3CsXfAYfhrPm2Ld1cy1SC4atA7S09r5ETOV8



She provides some more information on the peaceful protesters and how she knows they peaceful and it was interesting that none of them were charged with anything.  I had not heard that before.  I thought at least breaking down the gate...right? Maybe she was wrong.  I'll have to check.

I thought the photo and video evidence showed that the gate was open when the protesters entered.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2020, 02:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I thought the photo and video evidence showed that the gate was open when the protesters entered.

Indeed.  However there was a brief kerfuffle here about how the gate got broken "somehow" so it had to be the protesters.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-25-2020, 05:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Indeed.  However there was a brief kerfuffle here about how the gate got broken "somehow" so it had to be the protesters.

It clearly broke itself, correct?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-25-2020, 02:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: I just ran across this article on the RNC speakers.

Not that I needed more info on them being awful people but since they are back in the news thanks to their recent speaking engagement in support of the POTUS.

https://forward.com/news/national/453183/the-rabbi-who-is-neighbor-to-mark-and-patricia-mccloskey-speaks-out-they/?fbclid=IwAR3n_bsRSEIdAGjegzQAAuw3CsXfAYfhrPm2Ld1cy1SC4atA7S09r5ETOV8



She provides some more information on the peaceful protesters and how she knows they peaceful and it was interesting that none of them were charged with anything.  I had not heard that before.  I thought at least breaking down the gate...right? Maybe she was wrong.  I'll have to check.

That asshole killed a bunch of bees and destroyed their hives?

Sorry, with how the worldwide bee problems have been clearly documented for years now and other threats to their populations, this pisses me off WAY more than a few people getting charged or not for protesting.

[GMDino]

(08-25-2020, 06:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It clearly broke itself, correct?

You clearly can read, correct?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-25-2020, 07:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: You clearly can read, correct?

I'll ignore the personal attack and reiterate that someone clearly broke that fence.  Was it the mob of angry protesters, a random passerby, or a resident of the neighborhood that no one saw doing it.  Which seems likely to you?

[BmorePat87]

People think they have identified the white militia member who shot 4 unarmed protestors last night, killing 2, including one he shot point blank in the head.

They believe it is 17 year old Kyle Rittenhouse. He is seen on video earlier in the night being thanked by cops for being there and given water.

He is later seen running from a guy throws a bag at him before turning around and shooting him in the head, killing him.

He later can be seen on video on ground as a number of protesters try to apprehend him. He then starts shooting at them, killing one of them.

He is later on video approaching the cops, armed, trying to get behind their lines.