(06-23-2021, 08:51 AM)hollodero Wrote: I don't think he said anything sexist.
If women's sport is low level and hence less attractive might be a matter of perspective, but I often feel the same way, eg. with soccer. It's not sexist to perceive it that way.
Prejudice based on sex is sexism. It's the definition. He made a sweeping generalization about female college athletes.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-23-2021, 09:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Prejudice based on sex is sexism. It's the definition. He made a sweeping generalization about female college athletes.
And what generalization would that be? That he evaluated their level of play? If anything, that is his opinion of how women's sports compare to men's sports, and that can not be sexist if the word sexist is used in a negative way. It's just his perception, and it is one that can easily be shown as being basically true. Women lose against men in their respective sports every time, mainly due to athletizism.
And that is a legit reason for considering women's sports less attractive to watch. If any, you called people that aren't interested in watching women's sports "stupid". That, imho, is way more of an unjustified generalization than Wes ever made.
-- Not that I really think that is a big deal overall, but yeah I do question your using the word "sexist" here and think it's uncalled for.
(06-23-2021, 10:10 AM)hollodero Wrote: And what generalization would that be? That he evaluated their level of play? If anything, that is his opinion of how women's sports compare to men's sports, and that can not be sexist if the word sexist is used in a negative way. It's just his perception, and it is one that can easily be shown as being basically true. Women lose against men in their respective sports every time, mainly due to athletizism.
And that is a legit reason for considering women's sports less attractive to watch. If any, you called people that aren't interested in watching women's sports "stupid". That, imho, is way more of an unjustified generalization than Wes ever made.
-- Not that I really think that is a big deal overall, but yeah I do question your using the word "sexist" here and think it's uncalled for.
He stated that high level middle school male athletes would be able to beat D1 women's champions. That's a generalization. Whether it is his opinion or not, it is prejudicial based on sex. That's the definition of sexism. If something meets the definition, it is 100% called for.
As to my "stupidly" comment, saying an opinion is stupid isn't calling an individual stupid. There is a difference there. Just like how I said Wes showed his "sexist streak" and referred to his comments as sexist rather than calling him a sexist. Those things are referring to statements or opinions that are sexist, not the individual themselves.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-23-2021, 10:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: He stated that high level middle school male athletes would be able to beat D1 women's champions. That's a generalization.
Well, apparently I do not know if that is factually accurate. If it isn't, my point isn't all that good. But if it is, you can't blame it to be a generalization. An objectifiable fact should not be classified, and basically condemned, as such.
Professional male under 18 soccer teams beat women's top level soccer teams easily. Every top 200 male tennis player could beat the best female player easily. That's not a sexist statement, it's a factual statement. There's plenty of data points (eg games played) to back it up, of course direcly observable ones at track and field, and so on.
(06-23-2021, 10:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: As to my "stupidly" comment, saying an opinion is stupid isn't calling an individual stupid.
Alright, I would still question why you even think this opinion is stupid.
Eg. I enjoy women's soccer less than men's soccer and I don't think that is a stupid opinion.
(06-23-2021, 10:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a difference there. Just like how I said Wes showed his "sexist streak" and referred to his comments as sexist rather than calling him a sexist. Those things are referring to statements or opinions that are sexist, not the individual themselves.
Sure, I understand that. You didn't call Wes sexist, you called his comments somewhat sexist, which is say on a lesser scale of condemnation. But it's still not a flattering judgment for the individual, and so I keep thinking it is uncalled for.
(06-23-2021, 10:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote:
He stated that high level middle school male athletes would be able to beat D1 women's champions. That's a generalization. Whether it is his opinion or not, it is prejudicial based on sex. That's the definition of sexism. If something meets the definition, it is 100% called for.
It's not a generalization, or an opinion. It's simply a fact. How can a fact be prejudiced or sexist?
I'm sorry if the truth hurts your feelings, but a top level Jr. High AAU team would absolutely wipe the floor with the DI women's champs. That's not to say that the women don't put in an incredible amount of work, or they're not deserving of praise. But the boy's team is going to be way too athletic for them to be able to compete with.
Watch these two videos. The first one is a 14 year old eighth grader who was 6'1 at the time. The 2nd one is Britney Griner, who is 6'9, is a WNBA player (a professional), and was the player of the year in college. She is considered one of the most dominant players in women's college history. Look at the difference in athleticism. That translates all across the game; rebounding, defense, strength, speed, etc.
(06-23-2021, 11:30 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: It's not a generalization, or an opinion. It's simply a fact. How can a fact be prejudiced or sexist?
It's both a generalization and an opinion, and you need to learn what a fact is.
I'll stop derailing this thread with this line of posting, though. No point in continuing it.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(06-23-2021, 11:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, apparently I do not know if that is factually accurate.
Trust me, it is. No one in the women's game would have an answer to players like this, who was in 7th grade when this was filmed.
The women would stuggle mightly just to get their shots off and secure a rebound when this is the level of competition. Basketball is way too athletic of a game to make up the difference with experience and gameplan. They'd get absolutely destroyed.
Like I said earlier though, I'm not pointing any of this out to rip on them. I'm sure it's coming across this way bow, but I'm honestly not. I'm just trying to explain why a lot of people don't want to watch them.
(06-23-2021, 11:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's both a generalization and an opinion, and you need to learn what a fact is.
You obviously know nothing about the game of basketball if you don't consider this a stone cold fact.
The women's game is a much lower level of basketball when compared to the men's game. Period. End of story. The fact you can't admit such a simple fact shows you're the one with an agenda.
(06-23-2021, 11:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: Professional male under 18 soccer teams beat women's top level soccer teams easily.
I have watched a lot of youth play on the U.S. East Coast. One frequently encounters girls who are "smarter" and more skilled players than the boys around them (we are talking about youth amateurs) but they don't have "the burst," get beaten to the ball, no breakaway speed. Also, they have more difficulty with elbows.
(I still like women's soccer at the National level, though.)
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