Left-Wing Media Is Ruining My High School

[*michaelsean*]

(01-21-2019, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he wasn't.  He walked between the kids and the African Americans.

Maybe i misunderstand where the Hebrews were.  Were they behind the kids?

[Dill]

(01-21-2019, 04:11 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: 1. I gave my thoughts on the first part earlier. I think his intent was to stir the pot. Going in a crowd and doing a chant unannounced isn't going to to a healing message across because your audience has no idea what you're doing and why you're doing it. Also, one of the native Americans in the group made statements like "go back to Europe" and "you don't belong here".  Way to muddy your message. 

2. Phillips approached the boy and inched closer as the encounter continued, not the other way around.

I don't buy that an elderly NA saw a conflict between HS students and Hebrew Israelites and then decided to "stir the pot."   And I am totally not surprised that he didn't get that those kids would not know what he was doing.  If another native American saw the tomahawk chops, then I am not surprised if he responded with a "go back to Europe."

Sure, he "inched closer."  The boy is still there to be rude, he knows where the line is between adults and children and is performing before his friends, as do so many HS kids nowadays.

[Dill]

(01-21-2019, 04:11 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well he was walking the  wrong way.  Perhaps the kid was trying to tell him he needs to turn around.

A smirk won't accomplish that.

[Au165]

(01-21-2019, 04:22 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't buy that an elderly NA saw a conflict between HS students and Hebrew Israelites and then decided to "stir the pot."   And I am totally not surprised that he didn't get those kids would not know what he was doing.  If a native American saw the tomahawk chops, then I am not surprised if he responded with a "go back to Europe."

Sure, he "inched closer."  The boy is still there to be rude, show he knows where the lines are, performing before his friends, as do so many HS kids nowadays.

Random thought, I wonder if the "Go back to Europe" was tongue in cheek considering the MAGA hats and the whole "Go back to Mexico" thing that tends to pop up in this particular demographic? Kind of the whole irony in the current citizens of a country who came to the land as immigrants and took over, now telling other immigrants not to come?

[BmorePat87]

(01-21-2019, 04:01 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: The who?

Thanks for the clarity. My mistake.

The Black Jewish Israelites are the black guys who were insulting the Native Americans for worshipping a false god and then started insulting Catholics and Trumps when the kids got there. The kids started responding to them. The elder was trying to "heal" the situation by doing a healing chant. Maybe he thought the kids would have a more positive reception than the guys hurling the insults?

[BmorePat87]

(01-21-2019, 04:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Maybe i misunderstand where the Hebrews were.  Were they behind the kids?

If the kids are on the steps, the BHI were on the concourse in between the steps and the pool, so behind the Native Americans.

[GMDino]

[Dill]

(01-21-2019, 04:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is where I am at. Who cares? People are searching for much greater "meaning" in this that there really is. It isn't proof of some sort of social decay. It isn't proof of racism. It isn't proof of some sort of larger political agenda. It is simply proof that people have weird confrontations everyday around the country and sometimes they include two groups that can easily be turned into symbols for much bigger things than they really are. 

Actually, expanding on your last statement, I do think the incident is proof of something, starting with the speed with which it is shoehorned into competing narratives.  And if there are shouts of "incest bred" and tomahawk chops, then I would suggest those are proof of some very negative, race-based attitudes in the participants. One could argue that is not news; that doesn't make it ok. It may be that people feel a bit more permission to behave in a racially aggressive manner than they have since the 70s and 80s, though I would not pin that conclusion on one incident.

Anyway, what is 'proved' is that the response on "both sides" does show the degree to which (as you suggest, I think) many people are waiting for incidents such as this, as some kind of final proof of what is bad in the country--the "far left" MSM or Trump's MAGA movement.   Seems like social media especially has enabled this kind of confrontation between sides which include online mobs, each of which produces fodder for the other side.

[Au165]

(01-21-2019, 04:42 PM)Dill Wrote: Actually, expanding on your last statement, I do think the incident is proof of something, starting with the speed with which it is shoehorned into competing narratives.  And if there are shouts of "incest bred" and tomahawk chops, then I would suggest those are proof of some very negative, race-based attitudes in the participants. One could argue that is not news; that doesn't make it ok. It may be that people feel a bit more permission to behave in a racially aggressive manner than they have since the 70s and 80s, though I would not pin that conclusion on one incident.

The response on "both sides" does show the degree to which many people are waiting for incidents such as this, as some kind of final proof of what is bad in the country--the "far left" MSM or Trump's MAGA movement.  

It proves people in general are stupid. Kids do stupid things and have since the start of time, including racially insensitive things. To be fair the tomahawk chop is still encouraged in sporting events across the country, and to be frank is probably the closest exposure to "Native American Culture" many of them have ever been exposed to. Do they understand that it shouldn't be appropriate there? Maybe, but to what degree probably not. When I was growing up we ran around pretending to be Indians making the "wah wah wah" sound like many people did. Was I racist? No. Did I know better? No, but I eventually figured it out like most people do as they get older. I do have to wonder where the chaperones in this situation were, as it did escalate in terms of group chanting that went past ignorance into mocking. I think that is an escalation of the event in a bit of mob mentality, but it could have easily been avoided by an adult simply telling them "let's go".

I believe he was looking to make as much of a statement as anyone there. Maybe he didn't want to "back down" to what he felt was aggression from the kids. There are certain standards of personnel space that must be respected by this gentleman. Should the kid have moved? Probably. Maybe he however was standing up to what he felt was an aggression on his personnel space? Everyone can feel slighted if they want to. I tend to lean liberal in most cases but this all feels a little bit like the Native American man here injected himself into the situation to prove a point.

Either way I feel this whole thing is people wanting it to represent whatever they are looking for it to represent. It's just another example of hyper partisan politics taking over everything. It is no different than the title of this very thread. It's not "Left Wing Media" out to ruin Brad's school. It is today's standard media from both sides out to sensationalize events without all of the information in a world where being first to report is more important than being right. 

[treee]

(01-21-2019, 05:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: Either way I feel this whole thing is people wanting it to represent whatever they are looking for it to represent. It's just another example of hyper partisan politics taking over everything. It is no different than the title of this very thread. It's not "Left Wing Media" out to ruin Brad's school. It is today's standard media from both sides out to sensationalize events without all of the information in a world where being first to report is more important than being right. 

[Au165]

Random thought, if we take the hats off the kids and we turn the Native American into a random white guy who is walking through the crowd screaming crazy conspiracy theories is this news?

[Dill]

(01-21-2019, 03:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guarantee it's an encounter the child will never forget. I just hope the hateful reaction by some do not turn him bitter toward the situation. That's where the parenting will come in. They have to realize there's just people who love to hate out there. 

One parent looks to be managing this well. His son was there, but from a different Catholic school. He apparently told the Native Americans land gets taken all the time. "That's the way it works."

https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/2019/01/catholic-schools-under-fire-for-comments-at-indigenous-peoples-march-school-officials-father-respond/

The father said his son is a good kid who chose his words poorly.

“He said ‘land gets taken away’ and it does, but a 16-year-old boy doesn’t understand that there is pain there. It takes age to understand how harmful that is,” the father said. “Nothing in his life has been taken. It’s easy to be glib at 16. But as you get older and you deal with loss, you understand that empathy, you understand things being taken.”

“This is not a ‘boys will be boys’ situation,” the father said. “This is a 16-year-old who doesn’t have that empathy of loss. Words are important, whether on national news or what you say to a loved one.”

Public uproar began when a young man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat stood near and stared at an indigenous man who was drumming as other young men surrounding the situation cheered and chanted. Some of the onlookers were wearing Covington Catholic High School clothing.

Good father, I think.  

[Au165]

(01-21-2019, 05:09 PM)Dill Wrote: One parent looks to be managing this well. His son was there, but from a different Catholic school. He apparently told the Native Americans land gets taken all the time. "That's the way it works."

https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/2019/01/catholic-schools-under-fire-for-comments-at-indigenous-peoples-march-school-officials-father-respond/

The father said his son is a good kid who chose his words poorly.

“He said ‘land gets taken away’ and it does, but a 16-year-old boy doesn’t understand that there is pain there. It takes age to understand how harmful that is,” the father said. “Nothing in his life has been taken. It’s easy to be glib at 16. But as you get older and you deal with loss, you understand that empathy, you understand things being taken.”

“This is not a ‘boys will be boys’ situation,” the father said. “This is a 16-year-old who doesn’t have that empathy of loss. Words are important, whether on national news or what you say to a loved one.”

Public uproar began when a young man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat stood near and stared at an indigenous man who was drumming as other young men surrounding the situation cheered and chanted. Some of the onlookers were wearing Covington Catholic High School clothing.

Good father, I think.  

This is a good point in general. I think empathy is confused with agreeing today and people don't want to be grouped in with agreeing with things they don't necessarily believe in. We need more empathy in general, you don't have to like what people believe but you need to be able to understand why they feel that way to gauge your response. 

[treee]

(01-21-2019, 05:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is a good point in general. I think empathy is confused with agreeing today and people don't want to be grouped in with agreeing with things they don't necessarily agree with. We need more empathy in general, you don't have to like what people believe but you need to be able to understand why they feel that way to gauge your response. 

And there-in lies a big issue, in my opinion. Modern day Republican-ism (not necessarily conservatism in general depending in which context you define it) take pride in not being empathetic. They mock the left, i.e. 'bleeding heart liberals'. As if understanding the perspectives of others is somehow something that should be looked down upon.

[Dill]

(01-21-2019, 05:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: I believe he was looking to make as much of a statement as anyone there. Maybe he didn't want to "back down" to what he felt was aggression from the kids. There are certain standards of personnel space that must be respected by this gentleman. Should the kid have moved? Probably. Maybe he however was standing up to what he felt was an aggression on his personnel space? Everyone can feel slighted if they want to. I tend to lean liberal in most cases but this all feels a little bit like the Native American man here injected himself into the situation to prove a point.

Either way I feel this whole thing is people wanting it to represent whatever they are looking for it to represent. It's just another example of hyper partisan politics taking over everything. It is no different than the title of this very thread. It's not "Left Wing Media" out to ruin Brad's school. It is today's standard media from both sides out to sensationalize events without all of the information in a world where being first to report is more important than being right. 

Quite possible the kid was feeling that way too.  It is possible that he got the MAGA cap because his friends were getting them, a DC trip souvenir, and it's possible that he and some of his friends at least had some understanding they were standing for a movement on racialized terrain.

Let's wait to see if one side works harder to sort this out, settle it down, and try to prevent excess from re-occuring, while the other continues with the black and white, absolutist definitions of what happened.  That might prove something.  

[*Nately120*]

(01-21-2019, 05:22 PM)Dill Wrote: Quite possible the kid was feeling that way too.  It is possible that he got the MAGA cap because his friends were getting them, a DC trip souvenir, and it's possible that he and some of his friends at least had some understanding they were standing for a movement on racialized terrain.

Let's wait to see if one side works harder to sort this out, settle it down, and try to prevent excess from re-occuring, while the other continues with the black and white, absolutist definitions of what happened.  That might prove something.  

Ill admit when I was 16 I was on a class trip in NYC and my friends and I went to the Trump tower and talked with some security guard there about how awesome and amazing Trump is.

I would have been pretty big on Trump if he ran for president when I was that age.  

[fredtoast]

(01-21-2019, 04:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Who doesn't work their way through a crowd by walking where there are openings, and saying excuse me when there are none.

Who doesn't move aside when approached by an elderly person working his way through a crowd?

The boy admitted that EVERYONE ELSE moved aside for the old man, so why didn't he?  You all act like what the boy did was normal when even he admits that everyone else there did something different.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-21-2019, 03:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I wouldn't consider BuzzFeed to be MSM, and I don't know how much screwing of the pooch actually occurred there. There are lots of opinions on what the statement from Mueller actually means and a lot of the reporting on it has been a little eye opening and seems to indicate their article was not entirely wrong, but got some key facts incorrect. Other reporting on the story was pretty much "according to BuzzFeed..."

Yeah, that's a huge dodge in my opinion, "according to Buzzfeed...".  It's a BS way of reporting something and maintaining plausible deniability.  You report on something, you're taking ownership of it, the source is immaterial once you run the story from your outlet.  I could throw in the black girl killed in hate crime story as well.  Not the family reporting it was a white man who killed their kid, but the instant assumption that it was a hate crime.  Of course, it wasn't the white guy at all, but two black men.  But hey, why wait for facts when clickbait headlines sell ads?


We've had this discussion before and I know we disagree, but to me journalism is circling the bowl of a truck stop toilet.

[*Nately120*]

(01-21-2019, 05:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We've had this discussion before and I know we disagree, but to me journalism is circling the bowl of a truck stop toilet.

You gotta give the people what they want.  The demand for crap journalism is what drives the market.  It's america, we want Bud Light, Bic Macs, and toilet-bowl journalism.  Are those appealing things?  I wouldn't think so, but I'm weird.

[treee]

(01-21-2019, 05:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, that's a huge dodge in my opinion, "according to Buzzfeed...".  It's a BS way of reporting something and maintaining plausible deniability.  You report on something, you're taking ownership of it, the source is immaterial once you run the story from your outlet.  I could throw in the black girl killed in hate crime story as well.  Not the family reporting it was a white man who killed their kid, but the instant assumption that it was a hate crime.  Of course, it wasn't the white guy at all, but two black men.  But hey, why wait for facts when clickbait headlines sell ads?


We've had this discussion before and I know we disagree, but to me journalism is circling the bowl of a truck stop toilet.

We gotta figure out a way to fix it. Journalism is a necessity for a democracy to function correctly.