(01-21-2019, 03:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not a crime, but it is rude and disrespectful when the person doing it is the only one in a crowd who did not step aside to let an elderly man pass.
Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric.
The man clearly wasn't so elderly that he couldn't walk around beating his drum and, if you watch the other videos of him, he seems like a pretty energetic guy.
What's rude and disrespectful is walking through a crowd of kids who are just minding their business and beating your drum just to cause a disturbance.
(01-21-2019, 03:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except the kids were not "standing around" First they were in a screaming match with a group of African Americans and then when the Native approached they were whooping and hollering which appeared to be mocking the playing of the drum.
The African Hebrews were the ones inciting all the commotion. The chaperons with the school group failed miserably in letting that situation elevate. The kids were just reacting the way any group of kids would to verbal attacks.
The native just walked up playing his drum. The kids were agitated and when the Africans seemed to indicate that the Native was on their side the kids became unruly. The video just showed the worst part where the native was surrounded by school kids whooping and yelling. It looked bad and was made worse by a description claiming that the kids just surrounded the peaceful native.
You're making things up again! STOP! They were not shouting at the African Americans! The African Americans were shouting at them!
(01-21-2019, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you have repeated ten times that the Native could have walked around the boy, but you have yet to address why the boy did not just step aside.
Like I said, would it be alright for someone to poop on your front porch as long as you could step over it?
"OMG! The poop was only 2 inches high. No human on earth could step over that!"
Because the NA was clearly causing a disruption by even going into the crowd to beat his drum and the boy was trying to diffuse the situation!
They just wanted to leave, which, if you watch more videos, when the buses finally pull up, they immediately leave and start chanting "let's go home!"
(01-21-2019, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who doesn't move aside when approached by an elderly person working his way through a crowd?
The boy admitted that EVERYONE ELSE moved aside for the old man, so why didn't he? You all act like what the boy did was normal when even he admits that everyone else there did something different.
If you watched more videos and got more information on the event, which I'm currently 1000% positive you did not, then you'd see that another NA was harshly speaking to another student nearby and telling him that white people stole their land and all sorts of other insults, and the student is laughing in his responses, but not being hostile. The original boy, that everyone is condemning and saying started this just to hate, is doing the cut it sign at his that (telling him to be quiet), even though the boy was just laughing and responding to the NA's false bashing!
So, the original boy was just trying to diffuse the situation, as he has stated, and then is also trying to silence another student, who's not even doing anything wrong, just because he doesn't want the situation to escalate even more, but how's he in the wrong?
(01-21-2019, 05:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You gotta give the people what they want. The demand for crap journalism is what drives the market. It's america, we want Bud Light, Bic Macs, and toilet-bowl journalism. Are those appealing things? I wouldn't think so, but I'm weird.
To be fair, we're no different than any people in this regard. We consume different things, but the bread and circuses is a universal constant.
(01-21-2019, 05:39 PM)treee Wrote: We gotta figure out a way to fix it. Journalism is a necessity for a democracy to function correctly.
I completely agree. A good way to start would be to enact what I've suggested before on this board, eliminate the editorial section from hard news locations. Also, eliminate editorialism from hard news stories. Opinion and fact are not interchangeable, however in the current news format they are inextricably linked. Another way to do this would be to be more concerned with being correct than being first. We've discussed this here before as well, but the proliferation of "news" options has damaged the journalism profession. As ad revenue falls they are desperate to generate money, and their reporting has suffered commensurately. Even formerly prestigious, and borderline unimpeachable, sources such as the NYT have fallen prey to this.
Perhaps the most damage was inflicted by how the news media responds to Trump. He lambasted them and they took it personally. It shows in the stories they run on him and the tone they are presented. Ironically, they've become much more as Trump portrays them in their reaction to him then they ever did prior.
(01-21-2019, 06:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ironically, they've become much more as Trump portrays them in their reaction to him then they ever did prior.
Stewart and Colbert were making fun of CNN before it was cool.
(01-21-2019, 06:05 PM)treee Wrote: Stewart and Colbert were making fun of CNN before it was cool.
In all honesty, CNN deserves a ton of blame for this situation. Ted Turner really started us on this slide of news-for-profit. I know that's kind of a tangent, but still.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(01-21-2019, 06:05 PM)treee Wrote: Stewart and Colbert were making fun of CNN before it was cool.
I concur. Stewart has a great take on the current media in the interview he did with Chappelle. I've posted it here, it didn't get much traction. I thought the Colbert Report was one of the most clever, funny and original shows ever made. When the GOP rep from Texas, (whose name escapes me, he was huge and got caught up in ethics issues forcing him to resign) cited Colbert as a "conservative pundit" I lost it. Sadly, Colbert is now a parody of his former self.
(01-21-2019, 06:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: In all honesty, CNN deserves a ton of blame for this situation. Ted Turner really started us on this slide of news-for-profit. I know that's kind of a tangent, but still.
Agreed 100%. It's not really a tangent either, as this entire thread is about a story that is a case study in modern "journalism".
(01-21-2019, 05:39 PM)treee Wrote: We gotta figure out a way to fix it. Journalism is a necessity for a democracy to function correctly.
News agencies over the last 40 years, like most businesses, have drifted towards corporate ownership. Even ones that aren't still have to make a buck. And therein lies the problem.
Journalism is largely paid for through advertising, and the bigger your audience, the bigger the dollars. That problem is compounded by the current business approach of 'maximize short-term profits, don't worry about long-term gains' which has decimated news rooms and made far inferior products.
(01-21-2019, 06:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To be fair, we're no different than any people in this regard. We consume different things, but the bread and circuses is a universal constant.
I completely agree. A good way to start would be to enact what I've suggested before on this board, eliminate the editorial section from hard news locations. Also, eliminate editorialism from hard news stories. Opinion and fact are not interchangeable, however in the current news format they are inextricably linked.
I don't disagree that this would help, but only with people who don't understand the difference and only in a minor way. There's still going to be some folks who word things with bias, and even more who think everyone does. No matter how impartial a story, there's always going to be someone who thinks without an open mind.
Quote: Another way to do this would be to be more concerned with being correct than being first. We've discussed this here before as well, but the proliferation of "news" options has damaged the journalism profession. As ad revenue falls they are desperate to generate money, and their reporting has suffered commensurately. Even formerly prestigious, and borderline unimpeachable, sources such as the NYT have fallen prey to this.
Perhaps the most damage was inflicted by how the news media responds to Trump. He lambasted them and they took it personally. It shows in the stories they run on him and the tone they are presented. Ironically, they've become much more as Trump portrays them in their reaction to him then they ever did prior.
That's a big part of it, and part of the problem with reduced news rooms. At the small 14 person paper I started at, no story went out without having three reads and the editor would call and question anything that didn't sound right or plausible. When I left that paper, corporate layoffs had reduced the staff to five and things generally got one read.
(01-21-2019, 06:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: In all honesty, CNN deserves a ton of blame for this situation. Ted Turner really started us on this slide of news-for-profit. I know that's kind of a tangent, but still.
CNN showed you could make money by giving "news" all the time. FOX really showed how you could mix opinion with "news" and attract one audience that will never leave.
But as I've said before guys like Paul Harvey were doing that years before CNN and FOX.
It's not new...there's just more of it available and more ways for people to complain about "the other side".
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(01-21-2019, 06:15 PM)Benton Wrote: News agencies over the last 40 years, like most businesses, have drifted towards corporate ownership. Even ones that aren't still have to make a buck. And therein lies the problem.
Journalism is largely paid for through advertising, and the bigger your audience, the bigger the dollars. That problem is compounded by the current business approach of 'maximize short-term profits, don't worry about long-term gains' which has decimated news rooms and made far inferior products.
I don't disagree that this would help, but only with people who don't understand the difference and only in a minor way. There's still going to be some folks who word things with bias, and even more who think everyone does. No matter how impartial a story, there's always going to be someone who thinks without an open mind.
That's a big part of it, and part of the problem with reduced news rooms. At the small 14 person paper I started at, no story went out without having three reads and the editor would call and question anything that didn't sound right or plausible. When I left that paper, corporate layoffs had reduced the staff to five and things generally got one read.
I remember one of our exercises in a radio class I was taking was to write a headline (maybe a story too) with no bias in it.
Not as easy as it sounds.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(01-21-2019, 06:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: CNN showed you could make money by giving "news" all the time. FOX really showed how you could mix opinion with "news" and attract one audience that will never leave.
But as I've said before guys like Paul Harvey were doing that years before CNN and FOX.
It's not new...there's just more of it available and more ways for people to complain about "the other side".
Fox News did crank it up a notch, but more importantly they really started the trend of having non-news shows on their news network. They will tell you flat out that some of their programming is entertainment and not news. The sake can probably go for the other networks, as well.
IF IT IS NOT NEWS, THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE ON A NEWS NETWORK!!!
It's not like in a newspaper where you have a section clearly indicating it is the opinion section, or even the website where you can put "OPINION" in big bold letters. Though even if you did slap the word across O'Reilly's face you'd still have morons hanging on his every word, just like you have people ignoring the opinion heading on articles.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(01-21-2019, 06:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: I remember one of our exercises in a radio class I was taking was to write a headline (maybe a story too) with no bias in it.
Not as easy as it sounds.
I have to write without bias a lot for classes I take. In policy we have different audiences. If my audience is more academic then my language has to be more neutral. It's an interesting exercise to take the same information and write three different reports: one for a political actor, one for a bureaucratic actor, and one for academia.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(01-21-2019, 05:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You're making things up again! STOP! They were not shouting at the African Americans! The African Americans were shouting at them!
Because the NA was clearly causing a disruption by even going into the crowd to beat his drum and the boy was trying to diffuse the situation!
If you watched more videos and got more information on the event, which I'm currently 1000% positive you did not, then you'd see that another NA was harshly speaking to another student nearby and telling him that white people stole their land and all sorts of other insults, and the student is laughing in his responses, but not being hostile.
Brad, I watched a long video of everything that happened. Before the Native even showed up there was a shouting match between the students and the Black guys. At one point the students went nuts and a guy tore his shirt off. There was plenty of yapping going both ways. The students were not just minding their own business. That is clear from the point when the teacher is trying to calm them down and tell them to back up.
The native did nothing to incite an incident. He just walked up playing his drum. He was not yelling or screaming or anything. The students went into some hokey American Indian type chant and some of them even started doing the tomahawk chop to mock him.
The most telling point is that you feel it was an "insult" to be told that the white man stole the Native Americans land. In other words you acted just like the high school kids in this video. You got pissed off at the truth and took it as an insult.
(01-21-2019, 06:12 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I concur. Stewart has a great take on the current media in the interview he did with Chappelle. I've posted it here, it didn't get much traction. I thought the Colbert Report was one of the most clever, funny and original shows ever made. When the GOP rep from Texas, (whose name escapes me, he was huge and got caught up in ethics issues forcing him to resign) cited Colbert as a "conservative pundit" I lost it. Sadly, Colbert is now a parody of his former self.
I agree for sure. He still tries to be edgy on the Tonight Show, but he just doesn't satirize as well outside the Colbert persona. Not to mention, talk shows stink anyway in general. I really wish someone could pick up the mantle that he left.
(01-21-2019, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brad, I watched a long video of everything that happened. Before the Native even showed up there was a shouting match between the students and the Black guys. At one point the students went nuts and a guy tore his shirt off. There was plenty of yapping going both ways. The students were not just minding their own business. That is clear from the point when the teacher is trying to calm them down and tell them to back up.
Please, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....... STOP!!
Do some research! The kid ripping off his shirt is part of the school spirit cheers that they always do at sporting events! He wasn't doing it near the NA! Once again, you're looking for a reason to hate without knowing anything about the situation, just like the media.
And there was no "shouting match" but rather the black guys shouting at the students and the students remaining fairly calm in their responses. The protestors even told a black student that the white kids were going to "harvest his organs," and that he was hanging out with “racists,” “bigots,” “white crackers,” “fa****s,” and “incest kids.”
How is the majority doing school chants not minding their own business? How was them standing around and being approached by an adult not minding their own business?
(01-21-2019, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The native did nothing to incite an incident. He just walked up playing his drum. He was not yelling or screaming or anything. The students went into some hokey American Indian type chant and some of them even started doing the tomahawk chop to mock him.
He walked up to and in the middle of the group, and then started playing his drums INCHES FROM THE STUDENT'S FACE! Please explain how that is not inciting the incident?
THREE STUDENTS (maybe two) did the tomahawk chop that people do (or did, until recently) at Braves games, FSU games, etc., because they didn't know what else to do, and that was after the man got in the boy's face!
Might have been wrong, but they're teens and it was only a few and they thought they were just playing along, not doing it out of hate.
(01-21-2019, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The most telling point is that you feel it was an "insult" to be told that the white man stole the Native Americans land. In other words you acted just like the high school kids in this video. You got pissed off at the truth and took it as an insult.
When did I get pissed? When did the kids get pissed?
I'm trying to explain what was happening and, like always, you're trying to redirect and make it sound like something is going on that's not to avoid facts.
(01-21-2019, 02:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: An adult was trying to defuse a situation between those teenagers and a group that was antagonizing them.
I know when I try to defuse situations, I get right up in front of someone's face and bang a drum while my people film it for selective video release, too.
(01-21-2019, 06:15 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't disagree that this would help, but only with people who don't understand the difference and only in a minor way. There's still going to be some folks who word things with bias, and even more who think everyone does. No matter how impartial a story, there's always going to be someone who thinks without an open mind.
Also, facts do not self-select for reporting, do they?
Some reporter has to bring a set of priorities to his/her observation to determine what is relevant to his/her audience.
Reporters from Israel, North Dakota, and Russia might view the same session of Congress on a given day and come away with rather different accounts of what happened that was "important." And all might be factually correct. Same if a Mexican, a Japanese, and a New York Times reporter were reporting on a "Caravan" crossing the border from Guatemala and heading for the U.S. Not only do I not see anything wrong with that; I don't see a possible alternative. Without some kind of angle--with a built-in evaluation or "bias"--it would not be possible to report at all.
Seems to me that one has to recognize the role of this "angularity" in reporting, the determination of what "the facts" are and which should be reported, so the discussion of standards and distinctions of fact vs opinion and the like take it into account.
(01-21-2019, 05:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ill admit when I was 16 I was on a class trip in NYC and my friends and I went to the Trump tower and talked with some security guard there about how awesome and amazing Trump is.
I would have been pretty big on Trump if he ran for president when I was that age.
I was capable of dumb things at 16 as well (if that is what you meant by praising Trump at 16).
I imagine a number of the kids in the video will come to feel embarassed about their behavior. The school will certainly encourage that.
The kid who was in the Native American drummer's face might go in a very different direction, as he is getting hate mail and the like. It may harden him against "the left."
(01-21-2019, 09:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I know when I try to defuse situations, I get right up in front of someone's face and bang a drum while my people film it for selective video release, too.
(Really wanted to avoid this thread, too. Lol)
Didn't realize you were Native American. Know any good 49er songs?
![[Image: 7LNf.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/7LNf.gif)
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/1kwsTjL8BNqlszNtnCE/giphy.gif)
![[Image: jamarr-chase.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/Ycw6u-nmw3AAAAAM/jamarr-chase.gif)
Know any good 49er songs?
