Lefty fact-checker confirms Biden lied about Charlottesville

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-24-2024, 02:11 PM)hollodero Wrote: Nazis or white supremacists don't. David Duke did not say he supports Trump because he believes in his economic plan. He said he supports Trump because Trump promised to take their country back and they wanted to help fulfil that promise. His words of course, not mine.

What was the context for DJT taking the country back? 

Is he taking it back from the Democrats, radical left, and/or cognitively impaired racist current president,  by winning the election? 

Taking it back from the lawless, soft on crime, hard on public servants system going on?

Taking it back by sending illegal aliens out of the country and closing the border?

Taking it back by ending the woke DEI craze?

Taking it back by getting the economy back on track?

I understand DJT may have said he is taking the country back, but with the way the left fall all over themselves to misrepresent what he says and his message, I doubt it was in the manner you are imagining David Duke might want it to be. I would argue that DJT stating he is going to take the country back resonates with a lot of Americans, because they can see it as whatever "taking it back" that suits their position.

Oh, and forall those who like to trash DJT, he apparently has a great sense of humor and was "roasted" prior to running for president. Great fun to watch, back when comedy was still allowed to be funny. He was a good sport, and it's always fun to have a laugh. The late Gilbert Gotfried is fantastic!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1865333/

It is old enough, it might even be on youtube somewhere.

[Dill]

(06-24-2024, 02:03 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: As stated before, maybe Joe Biden is viewed by many as such a terrible candidate and liability that the support DJT?
People are voting with their pocket books. 
Minorities are leaving the Democrats in droves as well.
Hate groups support on candidate or the other, but it does not follow that that candidate supports them. Like Antifa, BLM, the Black Panthers, etc... all vote for one candidate or the other. It's not like DJT or his VP were bailing the KKK out of jail while they were burning down buildings, rioting, and assaulting people.
You're pushing a non-story. Imagine if DJT said some of Joe Biden's racist quotes...

So far, I've encountered no White Supremacist supporting Trump who is advancing the "pocket book" argument. 
And yes, they do think Biden is a terrible candidate--because of his support for women and minorities. 

Pretty sure that when "hate groups" that hate racism (ANTIFA and BLM) vote, it is for Biden and not "one candidate or the other." But many may not vote.

It's not like Biden was bailing BLM out of jail while they were burning down buildings, rioting, assaulting people, or like Harris went to visit jailed
protestors to make sure they were treated well. It's not like either has praised violent actors.

But it is like DJT calls the people who ransacked the Capitol and assaulted police "patriots" and has floated the idea of pardoning these "victims of the left." And it is like he is bringing the whole GOP along with him on that score, after many originally rejected the violent protestors, often claiming they were really ANTIFA or FBI plants. That support is separate now from their law and order campaign, of course. 

You keep trying to construct a whattabout parallel between Biden and anti-racist groups, on the one hand, and Trump and racist groups, on the other, which obscures important differences, especially how these groups see their relation to Biden or Trump, and the kind of support each presidential candidate gives the groups assigned to him in your comparison.

As far as your meme goes, you know there is quite a list of Trump "racist quotes" too, right? Only they are not coming from a guy who served a Black president and then picked a Black VP.  Wouldn't hurt if someone started a thread on the definition of racism and what counts as racist behavior. That would be better than a meme-off to decide which candidate, if either, is likely to oppose racism in the US. 

[Luvnit2]

Will fake news CNN moderators ask Biden why he lied about Charlottesville Trump comments at the debate Thursday? It will an opportunity to ask fair questions to both candidates? I am certain CNN will ask Trump about Jan. 6 and his conviction in NY?

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-24-2024, 03:23 PM)Dill Wrote: So far, I've encountered no White Supremacist supporting Trump who is advancing the "pocket book" argument. 
And yes, they do think Biden is a terrible candidate--because of his support for women and minorities. 

Pretty sure that when "hate groups" that hate racism (ANTIFA and BLM) vote, it is for Biden and not "one candidate or the other." But many may not vote.

It's not like Biden was bailing BLM out of jail while they were burning down buildings, rioting, assaulting people, or like Harris went to visit jailed
protestors to make sure they were treated well. It's not like either has praised violent actors.

But it is like DJT calls the people who ransacked the Capitol and assaulted police "patriots" and has floated the idea of pardoning these "victims of the left." And it is like he is bringing the whole GOP along with him on that score, after many originally rejected the violent protestors, often claiming they were really ANTIFA or FBI plants. That support is separate now from their law and order campaign, of course. 

You keep trying to construct a whattabout parallel between Biden and anti-racist groups, on the one hand, and Trump and racist groups, on the other, which obscures important differences, especially how these groups see their relation to Biden or Trump, and the kind of support each presidential candidate gives the groups assigned to him in your comparison.

As far as your meme goes, you know there is quite a list of Trump "racist quotes" too, right? Only they are not coming from a guy who served a Black president and then picked a Black VP.  Wouldn't hurt if someone started a thread on the definition of racism and what counts as racist behavior. That would be better than a meme-off to decide which candidate, if either, is likely to oppose racism in the US. 

Pivoting away again to the hand wring over a mostly peaceful protest.

Love you using Obama the same way racists talk about their one black friend. A classic of the liberal dinner party...

Joe is still an old racist, and he is too old to change. I just hope he is allowed to step away from the presidency to retain some shred of dignity, rather than be trotted out and used like a muppet for whoever is loading up his cocktail of debate Viagra...

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-24-2024, 02:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, of course not, neither do I. But imho you misrepresented my analogy here. It's not about protesting the renaming of a monument, as it's not about being against Israel's approach in Gaza. Protesting both, imho, is just fine. The problem occurs when in one case the Hamas supporters that shout from the river to the sea, or in the other case the Neo-Nazis, supremacists and the like that shout Jews will not replace us take over. This is the breaking point where things aren't just fine and people still attending aren't blameless any longer. And that would be the intended interpretation of this analogy, that it is weird to still continue the "fine people" narrative after this point, that I would consider being a breaking point, was reached.



I get what your issue is, I just question how to weigh it in comparison. But sure, that's indeed because I find Trump's lies more scary than the lies of those who oppose him, which of course is not meant to be a justification for the latter.

I just see what he was trying to say with his "very fine people" comment, and I absolutely think it was unfair to claim for years that he was referring to white supremacists with that statement.  I think we agree far more than we disagree here, just maybe on where the exact line is drawn.

[hollodero]

(06-24-2024, 03:02 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: What was the context for DJT taking the country back? 

Is he taking it back from the Democrats, radical left, and/or cognitively impaired racist current president,  by winning the election? 

David Duke most certainly did not talk about taking the country back from an allegedly racist president. Also, Biden was not in office and did not trun at the time. And if you claim the left misrepresents Trump, which is somewhat true, then David Duke did so too... and it's weird how you repeatedly try to interpret his stance as a common sense one really. He is a tough choice to represent said common sense.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-24-2024, 09:56 PM)hollodero Wrote: David Duke most certainly did not talk about taking the country back from an allegedly racist president. Also, Biden was not in office and did not trun at the time. And if you claim the left misrepresents Trump, which is somewhat true, then David Duke did so too... and it's weird how you repeatedly try to interpret his stance as a common sense one really. He is a tough choice to represent said common sense.

I am asking for the context is all.

DJT says plenty of outlandish stuff and is putting himself out in the media constantly. I do not see the need to assume he meant something because a racist thinks that they are on the same side of "taking back" the country, when they very likely are not. 

[hollodero]

(06-25-2024, 07:04 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I am asking for the context is all.

DJT says plenty of outlandish stuff and is putting himself out in the media constantly. I do not see the need to assume he meant something because a racist thinks that they are on the same side of "taking back" the country, when they very likely are not. 

Well, I did not do that. The context I reacted to was that someone asked the imho legitimate question why David Duke and the like kept supporting Trump after his condemnations and you then claimed that it was about pocket book issues and Biden being mentally impaired and racist and then some. You projected your own grievances into David Duke and that still is a weird choice to make really.

As for David Duke, I agree that him supporting Trump does not mean they are really on the same page, i did not try to make that claim. What it might mean is that Trump's condemnations did not really bother the condemned all that much. The reason probably being that they assumed he just had to say that for the media and didn't really wholeheartedly mean it. And I can at least understand why they would think that.

[Luvnit2]

I still don't see how Biden's lie about Charlotteville is turned into a Trump debate on people who follow him.

Let's stick to the subject, Joe Biden and his campaign lied for 7 years claiming Trump was a racist for his comments. Snopes has rebuked it and provided text why they said it was a lie. Fake liberal media who used Biden's lie as fact have yet to recant and apologize for smearing the former POTUS for 7 years.

There is a pattern with liberal fake news media. They lie reporting on DJT and ignore any negative news on Biden. They lied about Russian collusion using Adam Schiff as the spokesperson saying weekly, he had evidence Trump colluded with Russia. He dd not and the liberal media never pressed him on it and called him to take responsibility for lying for 3 years.

The liberal media lied the Hunter laptop contained Russian disinformation. Biden lied on the debate stage in October 2020 weeks prior to the 2020 election. Again, Biden has not recanted he lied, and the liberal media has ignored it also. No recant and no apology to Trump.

The liberal media and Joe Biden lied that Hunter Biden made no money from China and dismissed claims Biden and his family made 10"s of millions off of foreign countries China, Russia, Ukraine and others. The Biden's have no registered businesses that make and sell products. Why did they get millions?

There is one constant in all of these stories, Joe Biden lied, the liberal media either lied or refused to investigate Biden family foreign business deals (ignored it).

The other constant is Fox News did investigate all of these things, got to the facts on all 3, got the stories correct.

I understand the need by the far left in this forum to attack Fox, they exposed your news sources as being highly partisan frauds.

Again, will CNN hold Biden accountable for past his lies at the debate on Thursday or will they ignore them?

[SunsetBengal]

(06-25-2024, 10:20 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I still don't see how Biden's lie about Charlotteville is turned into a Trump debate on people who follow him.

Deflection at it's finest.
 
People on the left seem incapable of hearing or reading about their candidate and his obvious flaws without automatically attempting to shift the conversation to Trump.

[HarleyDog]

(06-25-2024, 11:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Deflection at it's finest.
 
People on the left seem incapable of hearing or reading about their candidate and his obvious flaws without automatically attempting to shift the conversation to Trump.

Honestly, though, can you blame them? Biden is the worst President in our lifetime. They've spent years bad-mouthing Trump, only to have their savior turn out to be a friggin joke. He was a joke as VP as well. But you know,  anyone's better than Orange Man. He's bad. He makes mean tweets.

[Dill]

(06-24-2024, 03:44 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Pivoting away again to the hand wring over a mostly peaceful protest.

Love you using Obama the same way racists talk about their one black friend. A classic of the liberal dinner party...

Joe is still an old racist, and he is too old to change. I just hope he is allowed to step away from the presidency to retain some shred of dignity, rather than be trotted out and used like a muppet for whoever is loading up his cocktail of debate Viagra...

Um, you are the one who brought up BLM and Antifa; howz that MY "pivot"? 
And I cited Obama and Harris to embed Biden's politics in the pro-civil rights platform of 
the Democratic party. I think you've not been to any "liberal dinner parties."  But you've heard about them.

And you've not established that Joe is "an old racist" because he said "chains" once and supported
parents in an anti busing conflict. The majority of Black voters don't agree with you. Also, that's
not really a standard you want to set for judging presidents when Trump is the other candidate.

Hard to tell if you are deflecting or genuinely did not follow the argument of my post. 
You did not address it at all.

Trump not only attracts "hate groups," they openly support him and he has met with at least one leader.
What signal does that send? They don't take his "condemnation" of white supremacy seriously.

Your effort to construct an analogy with Biden and anti-hate groups fails, in part because they are anti hate,
and in part because he doesn't dine with their leaders or signal sympathy in other ways. 
Also they don't endorse him and provide muscle for his cause. 

[*pally*]

(06-25-2024, 10:20 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I still don't see how Biden's lie about Charlotteville is turned into a Trump debate on people who follow him.

Let's stick to the subject, Joe Biden and his campaign lied for 7 years claiming Trump was a racist for his comments. Snopes has rebuked it and provided text why they said it was a lie. Fake liberal media who used Biden's lie as fact have yet to recant and apologize for smearing the former POTUS for 7 years.

There is a pattern with liberal fake news media. They lie reporting on DJT and ignore any negative news on Biden. They lied about Russian collusion using Adam Schiff as the spokesperson saying weekly, he had evidence Trump colluded with Russia. He dd not and the liberal media never pressed him on it and called him to take responsibility for lying for 3 years.

The liberal media lied the Hunter laptop contained Russian disinformation. Biden lied on the debate stage in October 2020 weeks prior to the 2020 election. Again, Biden has not recanted he lied, and the liberal media has ignored it also. No recant and no apology to Trump.

The liberal media and Joe Biden lied that Hunter Biden made no money from China and dismissed claims Biden and his family made 10"s of millions off of foreign countries China, Russia, Ukraine and others. The Biden's have no registered businesses that make and sell products. Why did they get millions?

There is one constant in all of these stories, Joe Biden lied, the liberal media either lied or refused to investigate Biden family foreign business deals (ignored it).

The other constant is Fox News did investigate all of these things, got to the facts on all 3, got the stories correct.

I understand the need by the far left in this forum to attack Fox, they exposed your news sources as being highly partisan frauds.

Again, will CNN hold Biden accountable for past his lies at the debate on Thursday or will they ignore them?

Luvnit, I asked you multiple times to tell us who Trump was talking about when he referred to the fine people marching alongside those neo nazis?  So far you have refused to answer.  So you leave it to others to decide who Trump was referring to.  Others rightfully may decide those fine people were ideologically similar than those marching under the Nazi flag

You want what Biden said to be a lie then prove to us those people qualified as "fine"

[jmccracky]

(06-25-2024, 11:33 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Honestly, though, can you blame them? Biden is the worst President in our lifetime. They've spent years bad-mouthing Trump, only to have their savior turn out to be a friggin joke. He was a joke as VP as well. But you know,  anyone's better than Orange Man. He's bad. He makes mean tweets.

I remember a time when conservatives frowned upon Trump like behavior. Also....most people who don't like Trump has nothing to do with mean tweets lol. That's ridiculous. What......like 80% of his administration doesn't support him now. Hard core by God Conservatives. But....sure....mean tweets.....not because we learned a good deal about him. Really? You're doing the same as the left when it comes to generalizing folks. I see it in this forum all the time, but then it's pointed out as if they don't do it lol. 

Btw....manufacturing is making a huge comeback. My company is at $188 a share and it's 3x as high as it's ever been in 40 plus years. We did a Billion in sales in on quarter. Shattering records. Now....if we can get housing and food costs under control. It's time for them to work for us. Trump or Biden. I dont care. I love ya Harley. We can do this man!!! Lol

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-25-2024, 11:56 AM)Dill Wrote: Um, you are the one who brought up BLM and Antifa; howz that MY "pivot"? 
And I cited Obama and Harris to embed Biden's politics in the pro-civil rights platform of 
the Democratic party. I think you've not been to any "liberal dinner parties."  But you've heard about them.

And you've not established that Joe is "an old racist" because he said "chains" once and supported
parents in an anti busing conflict. The majority of Black voters don't agree with you. Also, that's
not really a standard you want to set for judging presidents when Trump is the other candidate.

Hard to tell if you are deflecting or genuinely did not follow the argument of my post. 
You did not address it at all.

Trump not only attracts "hate groups," they openly support him and he has met with at least one leader.
What signal does that send? They don't take his "condemnation" of white supremacy seriously.

Your effort to construct an analogy with Biden and anti-hate groups fails, in part because they are anti hate,
and in part because he doesn't dine with their leaders or signal sympathy in other ways. 
Also they don't endorse him and provide muscle for his cause. 

Having dealt with both personally I can 100% guarantee you that BLM and Antifa are not "anti-hate."

[HarleyDog]

(06-25-2024, 12:36 PM)jmccracky Wrote:  I love ya Harley. We can do this man!!! Lol

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-25-2024, 11:56 AM)Dill Wrote: Um, you are the one who brought up BLM and Antifa; howz that MY "pivot"? 
And I cited Obama and Harris to embed Biden's politics in the pro-civil rights platform of 
the Democratic party. I think you've not been to any "liberal dinner parties."  But you've heard about them.

And you've not established that Joe is "an old racist" because he said "chains" once and supported
parents in an anti busing conflict. The majority of Black voters don't agree with you. Also, that's
not really a standard you want to set for judging presidents when Trump is the other candidate.

Hard to tell if you are deflecting or genuinely did not follow the argument of my post. 
You did not address it at all.

Trump not only attracts "hate groups," they openly support him and he has met with at least one leader.
What signal does that send? They don't take his "condemnation" of white supremacy seriously.

Your effort to construct an analogy with Biden and anti-hate groups fails, in part because they are anti hate,
and in part because he doesn't dine with their leaders or signal sympathy in other ways. 
Also they don't endorse him and provide muscle for his cause. 

How do you know a majority of black voters do not think Joe Biden is racist? I have supplied Joe's own words to the contrary, which they may not be aware of. 

Again, I am not going down your diversionary rabbit holes just because you want attention. My posts and points stand, and I am getting back on topic, so as not to derail the thread any further.

[Dill]

(06-25-2024, 10:20 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I still don't see how Biden's lie about Charlotteville is turned into a Trump debate on people who follow him.

Biden's "lie" still has legs because of the people who follow Trump, and Trump's refusal to definitively condemn bad actors
such as the Proud Boys. If you "condemn" white supremacy only under pressure, pretend not to know who the Proud Boys
are, and then dine with a white supremacist, it doesn't look like the condemnation was serious. Just useful for supporters in denial. 

(06-25-2024, 11:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Deflection at it's finest.
People on the left seem incapable of hearing or reading about their candidate and his obvious flaws without automatically attempting to shift the conversation to Trump.

Trump started his political career amplifying a lie about Obama's birth, just before the Trump University fraud suit.
He ended his time in office with a lie that pushed a riot into the Capitol and cost lives. 
This week he lied that the FBI was ready to "take him out" when they raided Mar a Lago 
after he lied about not having any more classified documents.

And he has drawn his party into his BIG LIE about a stolen election, so that it has become the "religious test" 
for anyone who want's a place in the RNC and his administration. States like Georgia are preparing to make their
EC votes go for Trump, no matter what the voters say, supposedly because Dems rig elections no matter what.

THAT's the kind of lying that voters should be "capable of hearing or reading about," and the manner in which it has become party doctrine. 
Not whether Joe can remember a conversation from 8 years ago. Proportion is ENTIRELY liking in MAGA comparisons of candidates.

Seems to me the hysteria over Biden's "lies" and "racism" are the real deflection--as if HE were the chaos president. 

(06-25-2024, 11:33 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Honestly, though, can you blame them? Biden is the worst President in our lifetime. They've spent years bad-mouthing Trump, only to have their savior turn out to be a friggin joke. He was a joke as VP as well. But you know,  anyone's better than Orange Man. He's bad. He makes mean tweets.

Guess we are measuring these candidates differently. For starters, Biden did not conspire to overthrow a valid election,
drawing hundreds of others into the crime. What sort of voter thinks that's no disqualification for commander in chief?

27 months of continuously low unemployment, a well performing stock market, an infrastructure bill which his opponents take
credit for in their home districts.https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/10/house-republicans-infrastructure-funding-vote-no-00162361
Not only has the US reached the highest levels of energy independence in 70 years under him, but he has used the strategic oil
reserves to bring down oil prices world wide.  How does that add up to "worst president" when Trump is in the running? 

Democrats don't just recall the misogyny and violence manifest in Trump's mean tweets; they also remember that he made them while breaking US foreign policy, fumbling the Pandemic; and attempting a coup.  They were, and continue to be, a prime source of disinformation about the economy,
his indictments, and Biden. 

The overriding and overwhelming question of this election is--how can someone who manipulates masses with his lies and has shown readiness to
break laws great and small to keep power, still be a candidate for election at all in a country supposedly founded on democracy and rule of law?

[HarleyDog]

(06-25-2024, 02:07 PM)Dill Wrote: Guess we are measuring these candidates differently. For starters, Biden did not conspire to overthrow a valid election,
drawing hundreds of others into the crime. What sort of voter thinks that's no disqualification for commander in chief?

Trump didn't do these things. These are asinine reports that came from the left-wing media machine to try and convince the American public he did. When he is tried and convicted of these acts, then we will talk. I mean, the left is despitately searching for anything to charge him with anyway. You think this would be a cakewalk if proven.

Quote:27 months of continuously low unemployment, a well performing stock market, an infrastructure bill which his opponents take

credit for in their home districts.https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/10/house-republicans-infrastructure-funding-vote-no-00162361
Not only has the US reached the highest levels of energy independence in 70 years under him, but he has used the strategic oil
reserves to bring down oil prices world wide.  How does that add up to "worst president" when Trump is in the running? 

We can beat a dead horse over the unemployment issue. Counting part-time jobs and immigrant jobs is not putting Americans to work with good full-time jobs. The unemployment rate can and is adjusted to fit the narrative. Also, using strategic oil reserves to bring down oil prices is dumb. Our country's reserves are the lowest they've been in 40yrs. 

Quote:Democrats don't just recall the misogyny and violence manifest in Trump's mean tweets; they also remember that he made them while breaking US foreign policy, fumbling the Pandemic; and attempting a coup.  They were, and continue to be, a prime source of disinformation about the economy,
his indictments, and Biden. 

Breaking foreign policy? How, by recognizing Jerulalem as the capital of Isriel? By putting tariffs on China? Withdrawing for a ridiculous Iran nuclear agreement? Withdraw from UN Human Right Council? Or was it because he met with leaders of communist countries? 

Quote:The overriding and overwhelming question of this election is--how can someone who manipulates masses with his lies and has shown readiness to
break laws great and small to keep power, still be a candidate for election at all in a country supposedly founded on democracy and rule of law? 

Maybe ask Cornpop or Bidens dead uncle or the black church congregation Biden grew up in. It's easy to search for lies in Trump, but hard to find truth in Biden.

[Dill]

(06-25-2024, 01:25 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: How do you know a majority of black voters do not think Joe Biden is racist? I have supplied Joe's own words to the contrary, which they may not be aware of. 

Do you doubt that the vast majority of Black voters will vote for Biden over Trump? And there is no reason to suppose they may not be aware "Joe's own words," which saturated social media in 2020, and which don't make him a very convincing racist anyway.  (One wonders how many Black voters agree with the "chains" remark.) It's not like Biden was sued for discriminatory housing or regularly deploys disparaging stereotypes of non-white ethnic groups. 

The claim that Black voters generally have a positive view of Biden and don't see him as a racist has a much firmer foundation than explaining away hate group support for Trump just folks voting their pocket book. That's a denial of contrary evidence when followed by a duck and run.

(06-25-2024, 01:25 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Again, I am not going down your diversionary rabbit holes just because you want attention. My posts and points stand, and I am getting back on topic, so as not to derail the thread any further.

A thread about Biden's reference to Charlottesville is always also going to be a thread about Trump behavior and character, since that's what the "lie" is about. You've not been "off topic" raising issues about other riots and political groups for comparison.

You only call them "diversionary rabbit holes" when they draw counter arguments you cannot refute.
You offer one-liners, then you're done and on the run.